Whats the coldest temperatures you guys have flown in? Typically my cutoff is -20* but had to get out in -30* last week to check traps. No issues to speak of other than trying to get into my plane with all my winter gear on. I typically carry quite a bit more power on landing to prevent shock cooling my engine at these temps. Look forward to any stories you guys may have. Thanks!

Moosehunter wrote:Whats the coldest temperatures you guys have flown in? Typically my cutoff is -20* but had to get out in -30* last week to check traps. No issues to speak of other than trying to get into my plane with all my winter gear on. I typically carry quite a bit more power on landing to prevent shock cooling my engine at these temps. Look forward to any stories you guys may have. Thanks!

I operated in interior AK for twenty winters. Our cutoff was -40. By the way, you do know that the ONLY good thing about -40? You don’t have to convert.

I inadvertently flew in much colder than that, which qualifies as dumb.

One instance illustrates the issue:

One winter I was working on a project on the Yukon Flats. I’d been trying to get up there for over a week, but weather there was very cold.....like -60 cold.

But, one Monday I look at Fort Yukon weather, and it’s -19 with a light breeze. Which doesn’t sound right, since Fairbanks is reporting -35. But, we’re within limits, so I go.

My plan is to land on a frozen lake SW of FYU. I go there, check FYU (nearest) AWOS which is still reporting -19. So, I land.

But, as I descend below the trees on this lake, which lies in a shallow basin, it feels like the airplane is diving into water, and the cockpit is almost instantly cold. I taxi back, shut down, and walk over to the “official” NWS thermometer, which reads -58F. Then I got back in the plane and left.

The point? You may be flying around in -20 or -30 air, but if anything bad happens, where are you going to land? On one of those lakes, which lie in sumps.

I was being paid to fly someone else’s airplanes, and I was young, and one might argue not too bright. That said, I’ve slept out at -45, and I know I could do so in much colder. I’d sure rather not though.

My personal cutoff, with my plane was -20 F, and I’d do that again.

Use kill traps, and check them when you can. Fur isn’t worth that much.

MTV

I was flying support years back for a race into Fairbanks. It was early February. Left Dawson City for Eagle after a strong storm dumped a half a foot of drifting snow and delayed us a day. Then the bottom dropped out on the thermometer.

Landed at Eagle,-26F, fueled and loaded up for Circle. Climbed to 8500 ft and there was no inversion, still -26F and dropping rapidly the further west I flew. Land at Circle City, temp was -41F. I could feel the cold solidifying everything on the plane as I shutdown. Put the engine cover and checked in with race officials. Not wanting to leave the plane sit for long at those temps, within an hour I was back pulling the engine cover and prepping for the flight to Fairbanks. Climbed into the plane, seats were like concrete, all controls stiff, frost all over the interior and windows from previous passengers breathing and the rocker switches not wanting to work. First and only time the boost pump didn’t want to work, had to hand prime to get it started.
Idling and run up did nothing for help in heating the interior or clearing the windscreen of frost. Credit card cleared a view port on windscreen. Cleared runway CTAF and with power pulled back to top of green due to extreme DA, headed to Fairbanks. Once airborne heat start to flow into the interior of cabin and from there an uneventful trip. Landed at Fairbanks -45F.
The following day with temps still -45F, I turned down a requested flight to Eagle. Too cold and too dangerous. Things break to easy and things that normally work just fine develop gremlins in those temps. I set my limits at -20F and even then things need to be just right.

Once the weather warmed I put heat into the cabin to thaw things out. Water was on every surface including the panel and switches. Once dry no further issues. Boost pump has worked fine ever since.

Only thing good about flying in extreme cold temps: the plane performs like its on steroids!

Putzpilot wrote:. Only thing good about flying in extreme cold temps: the plane performs like its on steroids!

True indeed. In fact, Cessna recommends that the induction be covered by a plate with a round hole about two inches in diameter in very cold temps.

That plate prevents over boosting the engine, by restricting air flow to the engine. You can still make full power, because the restriction causes the engine to draw a vacuum in the induction, which pulls the alternate air door open, allowing warmer air from inside the cowling to flow into the induction.

At very cold temps, that engine can make quite a bit more than rated power.

MTV

My cut-off USED TO BE minus 30C (-22F). Now it's a bit higher (warmer) and gets warmer every year as I get older.

I fly over some of the most remote country in Canada, so my risk-management informs my cut-off temperature. It's smart to think about all the things that can go wrong when you're ski-flying, and there's A LOT that can go wrong. The consequences of an un-planned landing and an overnight camp-out can be pretty severe. I'm likely to take somewhat greater risks when I don't have to worry about a passenger.

My home-built PA-12 has very little in the way of cabin heat, but the heated seats help a lot. I have to dress very warmly while flying, which is a good thing anyway, it's just difficult to get in/out of the 'plane while dressed like the Stay-Puffed marshmallow man.

Take lots of good survival gear. Take an Inreach and activate the tracking feature. File a flight plan or at the very least give your flight details to a responsible person. Gather and use all the weather information that's available and be on the look-out for changing conditions.

Fly with another 'plane if you can - a luxury I don't have.

Having said all that, ski flying can be very rewarding. It can also be very challenging. Remember that it's supposed to be fun - leave the riskier stuff to the commercial pilots.

Cessna induction hole:

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When I was using aircraft for work purposes, fly-in operating and maintenance of natural gas facilities, our cutoff was -40c.

Once in the late ‘80s, I left from our field with a 150hp 150TD, it was -36c. When I arrived at the first site I was scheduled to visit and shut down, it was -53c. There was diesel generation and a survival shack there so I could plug in the plane. Spent 3 days there before it warmed up into the low -40s and I felt comfortable enough to return.

We always wore wool clothing layers, bunny boots, etc. Carried extensive survival gear and had the skills to use it. I was never really too concerned with the thought of having to overnight in most any condition, due to being prepared.

My only real concern was the possibility of being trapped in the aircraft in the event of a forced landing gone sideways. With the short daylight hours, the chance of search and rescue the same day were minimal. Hence the wool and bunny boots. It wold give you a chance of overnight survival even pinned in the aircraft. With any luck, the troops would be looking for you the next morning.

Fortunately I didn't have to test the theory. Flying for my own purposes now, cold temp cutoffs are considerably warmer.

UpNorth

One of the "new fangled" things which has improved the odds of getting picked up in the north if something goes sideways is that many if not most of the search assets are helicopters, and pilots flying under NVGs. Which improves your odds of getting picked up at night.

As Squash says, are a bunch of little things that you learn to manage as you go along. And, there can be surprises. Some ugly, some just an Ah Ha moment.

Good survival gear (and in this context, the term "Gear" includes the skills and knowledge to use the hardware and tools) is essential. If you haven't personally tested your gear, go out somewhere close to home and try it out, in very cold weather. If something doesn't work, hop in your car and go home to a warm bed. But, that's really the best way to see what works and what doesn't.

One of the biggest things: If you're going to be stuck somewhere, build your camp and fire FIRST. Then work on the plane or whatever else you need to handle. It's really easy to get worn down, sweaty, and dehydrated in very cold. Get there BEFORE you make camp, and you may not ever get out of there.

MTV

Speaking of starting fires, I got one of these the other day:https://pocketbellows.com/ Brilliantly simple, and quite effective. We've all blown on fires to get them going, so not a new idea, but just a slicker way to get the job done, especially for those of us with beards. Cheap, and weighs nothing.

In the mid 70s I worked in the Canadian high arctic.,I was coming back from time off and was catching a grocery flight out of Resolute Bay. They had loaded the dc3 up in a hanger. The doors were opened at minus 43 . I expect it cost $500 to reheat the hanger. The three had skis so relates to ski flying. I don't believe we ever had a flight cancelled from cold , only blizzards and even then it had to be reallllly bad before the twin otters and threes didn't fly. Now I fly skis just for fun and not below -20.

Great stories on this thread. Keep them coming!

courierguy wrote:Speaking of starting fires, I got one of these the other day:https://pocketbellows.com/ Brilliantly simple, and quite effective. We've all blown on fires to get them going, so not a new idea, but just a slicker way to get the job done, especially for those of us with beards. Cheap, and weighs nothing.

So do you just blow through it or is there an actual bellows? If you just blow through it I'd probably opt for a twenty-cent piece of plastic tubing, though it is pretty cute.

Yes Mike, I believe I have the winter plate covers somewhere in the shop. I just don’t want to put them on.....as a reminder to myself to not fly when it’s that bloody cold! LoL
But I can sure see how one could become addicted to the performance at those temps. Like a rocket.
Also, funny how different folks deal with extreme situations: Leaving Dawson City toward better visibility weather to the west: Dawson’s current weather was cold, snow blowing, visibility low. The planes cabin was full of passengers and gear and the interior was frosting up while awaiting clearance back from Border Customs. (hindsight, I probably should have had them unload while getting the clearance but didn’t have the heart to make them stand out in the wind and cold). Once cleared with Customs, tower cleared us for takeoff, put the whip to her and headed toward the Yukon R and points west. Snow reducing visibility even lower through the frosted windscreen. Wondering, how are my passengers handling the situation, I looked around, to my surprise, with the warmth of the heat starting to flow throughout the cabin... they were all asleep! exhausted from being in the cold for days and now comfortable in the warmth of the cabin heat. I laughed to myself but felt a great amount of responsibility.
Reaching the river visibility improved rapidly and the river provided a road map to points west. After a few miles, visibility became unlimited and the temp began its rapid decent. Passenger were all happily asleep to Eagle and thanked me for a comfortable and good flight unloading in Eagle.
Good memories, glad I was part of it and glad it all turned out positive.

BTW: Interior Alaska is currently experiencing the similar temps being discussed. -40F. To -50F and colder With some windchills down to -75F according to weather forecasters.
Although for some reason ice fog doesn’t seem to be as bad as past memories.
PLEASE: tell me again about global warming! Haha

courierguy wrote:Speaking of starting fires, I got one of these the other day:https://pocketbellows.com/ Brilliantly simple, and quite effective. We've all blown on fires to get them going, so not a new idea, but just a slicker way to get the job done, especially for those of us with beards. Cheap, and weighs nothing.

I have one of those and they are extremely useful and effective.
It kinda looks like a telescoping walkie talkie antenna. only bigger dia tubing.

Putzpilot wrote:BTW: Interior Alaska is currently experiencing the similar temps being discussed. -40F. To -50F and colder With some windchills down to -75F according to weather forecasters.
Although for some reason ice fog doesn’t seem to be as bad as past memories.
PLEASE: tell me again about global warming! Haha

That’s damn cold! The good thing is ambient temperature only matters, not windchill on mechanical objects such as engines and airframes. Windchill affects warm blooded Mammals.

Any engineers here that can calculate cold temps on aluminum structural integrity with flight loads on or below -50F temps? I heard internal cracking and failure increases.

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Structural embrittlement? Right now, the temperature above Bozeman, MT at 30,000 feet is -63. A LOT of airplanes routinely operate in those temperatures, and surface temps rarely get much colder.

Cold is harder on systems than on structures. One issue for turbine powered aircraft is fuel heaters to prevent jelling of jet fuel, or use of a mixture of jet A and avgas. You have to pay close attention to tire inflation pressures in very cold temps. Some pilots pay little attention to tire pressures. But, plane in a 50 degree hangar with 15 psi in tires when rolled out into -40 might not do well as tires normalize.

MTV

Hammer wrote:

courierguy wrote:Speaking of starting fires, I got one of these the other day:https://pocketbellows.com/ Brilliantly simple, and quite effective. We've all blown on fires to get them going, so not a new idea, but just a slicker way to get the job done, especially for those of us with beards. Cheap, and weighs nothing.

So do you just blow through it or is there an actual bellows? If you just blow through it I'd probably opt for a twenty-cent piece of plastic tubing, though it is pretty cute.

It is stupid simple, and yes a length of about anything would accomplish the same results. BUT, for 13 bucks, delivered, I respect that they had the idea, before I did, and it appealed to the gearhead in me! Since I got it, I've been using it at home, but the problem there is I bought for the plane's gear. So, I went thru the shop junk drawer and now have a 20' length of 1/2" dia. aluminum tubing that does pretty much the same thing. But, the "bellows" tubing is stainless steel, and anything stainless is a life time buy, I just love the material, and, it telescopes to a small enough size that will make the difference between carrying it on my person, versus somewhere in the plane. The taper of it I suppose increases the velocity of the air stream, while reducing the volume, and higher velocity is more effective then lesser but at a higher volume, I think.

On my to do list for ski plane flying this winter (abysmal conditions so far, got snow, just need the damn wind to die down a bit and the viz to improve) is a small pouch I will hopefully train myself to wear around my neck, with all I need (and hopefully more) to start a fire, no matter the condition's. My PBL will also be in the pouch. Like wearing a survival vest, the concept is, after leaping out of the burning plane, at least I'd have a fighting chance to create some heat to survive. Getting at the balance of my winter survival gear I always carry would be better, if I had the time. So far, I am guilty of my PLB being NOT on my person, handy and nearby in the plane, but not around my neck......I need to change that.