I have a question I want to post to the group to get your opinion on the matter. I know there are many members on the forum that are much more knowledgable than I am on this subject. Let me start by recounting the situation. This is a long post but I wanted to get all the details in it so sorry in advance.

My '57 180 has been undergoing nearly a complete overhaul over the last 1 1/2 years including new panel, interior, engine, prop, tail gear, several new skins, new fuel bladders and tubing, etc., etc. basically there is not an inch of this plane that has not been touched in some way or another. This work has all been done under the watchful eye of my A&P/IA who, by the way is the pilot who would be ferrying it.

Well, my bird is now finally ready to fly again. This is where the story gets good. According to the logs, this bird has not been in annual since 1979. It was looped back then and consequently disassembled for repair. It remained in various states of reconstruction over the next 30 years or so until I purchased it in 2011 and commenced on the restoration work. It had been owned by 2 owners over this time and had sat in the back of a hangar.

Today I called the FSDO in SLC to get the ferry permit started as the plane is at a different field than my preferred mechanic. After hearing that it hadn't been annualed in 32 years the FAA guy said I would have to drain all the fuel, have the lines inspected, gascolator and selector valve inspected, all screens and strainers inspected, etc. I informed him it had new badders, fuel lines, and that the gascolator and selector had been overhauled and the plane had been test ran for at least 1 hour. At this point he asked me to take pictures of the Airworthiness cert, registration (even though he was staring at a copy on his computer screen), panel, engine, and various angles of the plane as it sits currently.

Although I felt this was a bit strange I complied and headed for the airport. Just as I was pulling in he called back and told me "...not to waste my time. There is no way he could issue a ferry permit." He proceeded to tell me the reason for not being able to issue the permit was that there was no way he could verify the fuel system or that the control surfaces were operating correctly or the general airworthiness of the plane. He then offered two options for me to complete the annual: 1) truck it to my proposed location, or 2) have the annual performed on it where it sits.

I almost laughed at the first option.... Really? Dismantle and truck my airplane I just spent over a year putting back together? Obviously this guy has no idea what he is talking about and the costs associated with such an endeavor...or, maybe he just doesn't care which is equally as likely.

Now to my question: Isn't it the job of my mechanic to determine if the airplane is airworthy for purposes of a ferry flight? Afterall, he has to certify airworthiness on the permit and complete a log entry stating so. Secondly, if this FAA guy doesn't feel my mechanic has the ability to certify the airworthiness for a ferry flight then why can he certify it for an annual? I don't see the logic here. After reading all I could find in the FARs I don't see anywhere it states that the FAA is the one that attests to airworthiness for purposes of a ferry flight. And I don't see anywhere it states that after X number of years of inactivity you simply cannot get a ferry permit.

Forgive me here as this is the part where I get a little cynical. I have always felt that the FAA in general has not had the best interest of pilots in mind and that they had become just like every other federal agency; bloated, lazy and generally worthless to us tax payers. In fact in many cases it seems they exist to make our lives more complicated with pointless and arbitrary rules and regulations. Rules and regulations that every regulator interprets and applies differently and as he feels fit.

I know that not all FAA personnel are power hungry regulators that assume authority where none is warranted but I have adopted the opinion of guilty until proven innocent with all federal government employees, not just the FAA.

Thank goodness my mechanic can and will make arrangements to annual my bird in my hangar but it does complicate the process and adds hassle that is unnecessary were it not for what I perceive as a power hungry regulator that is over-stepping his bounds.

Rant over.... For now.

Darin,

How has your mechanic/IA watched over every step of your rebuild which touched every inch of your plane, prolly filled out 337's on your behalf when the tail was re-skinned and other damaged fixed, and decided he won't annual your plane until it reaches his shop?

What exists in his shop that allows him to further inspect the work he has watched over already? Just wondering-

Is your plane headed to see Jim @ Skypark?

I might try having your mechanic/IA speak to Bill Hughes @ SLC FSDO and ensure them that all of the Airworthiness items have been corrected and in working order and go from there.

If your mechanic has indeed properly supervised your work (apparently from some distance) why won't he just sign off the annual?

If I were an Inspector in this situation, I think I'd be a little suspicious of the "supervised" maintenance.

Then again, if your mechanic is willing to sign the ferry permit, who gives a hoot? I've ferried a couple pretty seriously broke airplanes home with ferry permits, and no hassles after a mechanic authorized it for the flight.

MTV

The Bill Clinton DADT policy has been adopted in these particular cases from time to time...not that everyone votes that way.

SixTwoLeemer wrote:Darin,

How has your mechanic/IA watched over every step of your rebuild which touched every inch of your plane, prolly filled out 337's on your behalf when the tail was re-skinned and other damaged fixed, and decided he won't annual your plane until it reaches his shop?

What exists in his shop that allows him to further inspect the work he has watched over already? Just wondering-.

Tail was not reskinned... Not quite sure where you came up with that. Some flush patches were made to patch old holes from old avionics antennas and a fuse skin was replaced due to a large hole from removal of an ancient ADF antenna.

And, my mechanic will sign the annual and that is the route we are going but there are a few more things we want to do and doing these in his shop were he has all the tools simplifies things. Figured we could do it all at the same time and save several trips back and forth.

You still didn't answer my question about airworthiness certification. Is this the job of the FAA inspector issuing the ferry permit or the job of the mechanic who has to sign off on the airworthiness? Like MTV said if the mechanic can attest to airworthiness then what's the issue. My point exactly.

Darinh wrote:

SixTwoLeemer wrote:Darin,

How has your mechanic/IA watched over every step of your rebuild which touched every inch of your plane, prolly filled out 337's on your behalf when the tail was re-skinned and other damaged fixed, and decided he won't annual your plane until it reaches his shop?

What exists in his shop that allows him to further inspect the work he has watched over already? Just wondering-.

Tail was not reskinned... Not quite sure where you came up with that. Some flush patches were made to patch old holes from old avionics antennas and a fuse skin was replaced due to a large hole from removal of an ancient ADF antenna.

And, my mechanic will sign the annual and that is the route we are going but there are a few more things we want to do and doing these in his shop were he has all the tools simplifies things. Figured we could do it all at the same time and save several trips back and forth.

You still didn't answer my question about airworthiness certification. Is this the job of the FAA inspector issuing the ferry permit or the job of the mechanic who has to sign off on the airworthiness? Like MTV said if the mechanic can attest to airworthiness then what's the issue. My point exactly.

Sorry Darin it was late last night and I read "tail gear, several new skins", too fast and thought tail re-skin mistakenly. I was not trying to be snarky tho it may read that way on an internet forum.

Yes your IA determines the airworthiness of your plane and the FSDO Buffoons who couldn't survive in the private sector will serve to get in the way on a FP.

IMHO just finish the annual and be done with it. I do ferry permits quite often for $250.bucks . It does take a "safety of flight inspection " and a completed 8130-6 with FSDO where aircraft is located ( going from) and safe guidelines .Not a big deal for I.A. to do . Good comm between I.A. and his PMI is important . If I knew you needed a ferry permit a week or so back I was in /near Boisie . Where is airplane ¿ I know a couple of I. A. 'S that could do it in Idaho area.

Thanks SixTwo... no snarkyness taken just didn't want anyone thinging I had torn the plane completely apart.

Bill,
That is precisely what I am going to do - finish the annual where it sits. Mostly I was pissed at not getting a ferry permit because I wanted to see it fly and now I have to wait another week or so. I had the 8130-6 done and My IA had just finished a peliminary inspection as he was the one who was going to ferry it.

Oh well, it's not a big deal I guess... Was just a tad frustrated the other day.

niente qui