Backcountry Pilot • Fat Tires and Bicycles

Fat Tires and Bicycles

Avionics, airplane covers, tires, handheld radios, GPS receivers, wireless Wx uplink...any product related to backcountry aircraft and flying.
30 postsPage 2 of 21, 2

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

EDW wrote:Great write up. My wife and I finally pulled the trigger on fat bikes last winter after debating about it for a couple of winter seasons. We couldn't be happier with the investment though we primarily use ours in the winter. We ended op going with the trek Farleys and are both running

Our experience has been that the studded tires are well worth it if you encounter any ice who intends to happen over the course of the winter. Tire wise I think I am running 4.5 with studs. My wife has 3.8 studded. And we went tubeless which has been great. We both like the 1x11 drive train though my father who is 68 wishes he had bought one with the 2x option. We are also just using standard flat pedals which has been fine with boots but have friends running clipless who like that option as well.


So how did you set up the tubeless option? With all the cutouts in the rim I figured it'd be really difficult to get a good seal.
Hammer offline
KB and Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:15 am
Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

I had it done (just front tire so far) at my local bike shop, but the next morning it was flat, I aired it up and rode, flat again the next morning. I was told this was normal, everything had to seat in, so to speak, and sure enough after a few days, the tire started holding more air, longer. Now, it's been a month since I've needed any air at all. It seems like the way to go, ha ha. I will do my rear tire as soon as I have another flat and/or wear the tread down a bit more. I rode 28 miles the last 2 days, like airplanes these bikes seem to work better when used often.
courierguy offline
User avatar
Posts: 4197
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: Idaho
"Its easier to apologize then ask permission"
Tex McClatchy

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

We installed studded ice tires on our fatbikes a couple months ago, and with a few hundred miles on them I thought it would be worth giving a review.

Image

Bottom line is that they work, with a few fairly large “but’s”…and I’m not talking about the ones on the bike seat. There are so many variables in the world of snow and ice…so many different conditions and combinations of conditions, that it’s just impossible to give a quantifiable measure of how much more traction you’ll get with studs. Some conditions are almost impossible to ride, while in other conditions it’s much easier to ride than to hike, or even stand. When I refer to “ice”, I’m talking about the super-slippery ice that you can barely stand on, not the rough, rubbery ice you get at sub-zero temperatures. You can ride ice with studs, and you simply cannot without them. Also bear in mind I’m talking about studs on FAT BIKES. They make studded tires for mountain bikes, and even some cross bikes, but I’ve not used them.

Image

I chose the most economical studded tires I could find (Vee Snowshoe XL)…less than half the price of the other common studded tire (Dillinger 45th North). I don’t know how one compares to the other or why there’s such a large price difference, as the tires look almost identical. I just know that even with the Vee’s, putting studded tires on two fat bikes was as expensive as putting tires on a car. From what I’ve read, the best traction comes from buying stud-ready tires from either manufacturer, and then installing aftermarket studs. But at $1 per stud, this is the most expensive option of all, and quite time consuming as well.

The studs do make a difference; sometimes a fantastic difference. They make it possible to ride on what would otherwise be a frictionless surface, such as ice with water on it. They are a great insurance policy in the winter, and I’d go so far as to say they’re mandatory for anyone who rides snow and ice and has the bone density of a 40+ year-old. They allow a rider to go from relatively good traction (snow floor) to zero traction (wet ice) without the guarantee of going down.

With studs you can stay upright on the ice, but you have to do your part, too. They provide traction, but nothing like the traction that tires provide on a normal surface, or even the traction tires provide on packed snow floor. Whether or not you stay upright is very dependent on how well you’re balanced when you hit the ice, and how careful you are to stay balanced until the traction improves. They’ll definitely save you from a lot of spills, but riding snow and hitting ice with studs is NOT like riding dirt and then hitting snow…it’s a whole new level. Without studs you’re on the ground, and with studs you have a very good chance of staying on the bike.

So studded tires are very good insurance for a cautious rider who rides snow and is going to hit ice here and there during their ride. You can also use studded tires to ride mile after mile of pure ice that a non-studded tire could never ride on. But again, the amount of traction you’re going to have is vastly lower than normal biking, and it takes a high level of balance and control to ride in these conditions. It’s challenging, and it can be freakishly fun, but it’s not carefree or easy. Don’t forget that eventually you have to put your foot down, and having something more than just rubber on the sole of your boots is a good idea…

There are also times when the studs do no good at all. If there is a couple inches of snow on top of ice, you’re pretty screwed. The studs never get down to the ice where they can do some good. Anything off camber is also a definite no-no…the studs simply do not provide enough traction to let a tire climb the side of an icy rut or keep you balanced on a sloping ice field. They work great on flat ice, and pretty good going directly up or directly down ice, but you cannot sidehill on ice.

The studs are also useless in getting any extra traction in snow, like when you have to cross a compacted snow ridge created by tire tracks. Near as I can tell the studs do nothing in snow…nothing at all. All my spills this season have been due to snow, not ice…which I guess is a pretty good indicator of how well the studs work on ice.

Image

If you put studded tires on your bike and then ONLY ride ice and snow floor, the tires will essentially last forever. The biggest destroyer of tires is heat, especially the heat created from skidding on an abrasive surface, and there’s precious little of that when you’re snow biking. Studded tires will NOT last if you ride them on dirt and rocks…the studs will get pried out as you ride and leave gashes in the tire tread as it happens. How much pavement/dirt/rock riding you can get away with without damage depends a lot on how you ride, the tire pressure, rider weight, etc., but if you want your studded tires to last, relegate them to snow and ice…if you cross a bit of dirt or pavement that’s fine, but keep it to a minimum.

I thought I could find studded tires at huge discounts in August, but I never did. I could have saved a few dollars per set buying earlier than I did, but it wasn’t a massive difference. Ebay is probably the best place to look, especially in the off season.

A couple thoughts on winter riding: It's harder. On average I cover half the distance over ice and snow that I cover riding dirt for the same hours in the saddle. It can be brilliant, or it can be a hateful hike-a-bikefest, or a combination of the two. I've learned to always keep a light on my bike, as even going out in the morning doesn't guarantee getting back before dark.

Pogies (fabric covers that go over the handlebars to insulate your hands) are a MUST, as are chemical hand and foot warmers if it's cold enough. One great advantage of winter riding is that it's clean...something dirt riding often isn't.

Image

One of the other great advantages is just getting out in the winter...not while sitting on top of a motor or at a ski hill, but in the quiet. It's amazing what you see when you look around a bit.

Image
Hammer offline
KB and Supporter
User avatar
Posts: 2094
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:15 am
Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

I've been riding my e fattie a fair bit, but no studs yet as it's mostly snow. I have let the air pressure bleed down more then normal, from soft, to real squishy, less then 10 lbs. though I just go by feel.

I had a big crash just a couple weeks ago, on my 27.5"er bike I keep in the crane as a dingy. In a town about 30 miles from my home base, I had two different jobs, with a couple hours to kill between them. So the bike comes out and I ran errands, had lunch, and before I knew it it was time to get back to the crane. The pavement was dry, but with ice on the shoulders, so I was hauling ass in order to not impede any traffic behind me (wasn't much, and a 25 mph zone), then when I was abeam of where the crane was parked, I noticed the median was ice covered. In order to take this 10' wide icy stretch at a right angle and a walking speed, I would have had to come to a full stop and then wait for 3 or 4 oncoming cars to get by, while I was also letting cars behind me catch up to me while still being in the traffic lane. I decided this was unacceptable, and slowing to about 10 or 12 crossed over to the ice on a 45 degree angle.

The first thing I noticed, is that the differentiation between the ice and the dry asphalt was not gradual, but a abrupt but sloped angle. Just enough to tweak the front wheel a bit. The next thing I remember thinking is "why has this lady stopped her car, and is asking me if I am OK?" Yeah, I went down HARD, and no helmet, as my ONE bike helmet was at home (I bought a crane bike specific helmet the next day, it will never leave the same compartment i carry the bike in), so I got a pretty good gash in my forehead, and I was bleeding like a stuck pig. I not only went down hard, I also STOPPED hard, as the pedals or something dug into the ice, so I also got bruised ribs, a banged up knee, a tweaked pinkie finger, and a bruised ankle. Once again, my second real painful bike crash, hurt worse on a bike by a fair amount, then I've been in total of 45+ years of flying hang glider, ultralights (both self taught) and then airplanes. I'm starting to think I better be more careful on them, bikes that is. I made my next job right on time, though the crew was a little taken aback by my appearance (a wad of bloody paper towels, always carried in the crane thank goodness, clamped to my head, and as I found out later, blood in my beard) I assured them I was good to go and we got the job done.

It's as much fun leaving tire tracks on fresh powder as it is on skis, a snowboard, or a skiplane. The first day I had the skis on the plane this year I was able to ride up the 800' vert hillside above my place, where I had an hour earlier left some ski tracks, it was perversely fun combining the two tracks, especially as I can later see them out the kitchen window. Good write up on the studs, it'd be nice to have a spare set of wheels with studded tires all mounted up, like many do with studded car tires, that would get even more expensive of course.
courierguy offline
User avatar
Posts: 4197
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: Idaho
"Its easier to apologize then ask permission"
Tex McClatchy

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

Where did you get that packing frame? Plans available or custom built?
jugheadF15 offline
Contributing author
User avatar
Posts: 309
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:12 am
Location: Snohomish

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

Thanks for the thoughful review and post.

I would imagine that riding a studded fatbike in the snow is massive exercise. Heavy big, immense drag from the surface and then the addional drag from the tires. What a workout. I'd LOVE to give it a try sometime.

One of the bike shops by me rents fat bikes but it has never snowed enough here for long enough for me to give it a try.

I still ride my mountain bike during the winter, but not in the snow.

The road bikes are all inside in their little room. I ride a smart trainer (Tacx Vortex) and rollers with Zwift in the winter. Doc hates winter.
Mountain Doctor offline
User avatar
Posts: 641
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 3:33 pm
Location: Richland
Aircraft: Maule MXT-7 180A

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

Mountain Doctor wrote: Doc hates winter.
Does the wind ever blow there in Richland?
Mister701 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2134
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:13 pm
Location: Sparks
Aircraft: Rans S7LS

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

Heck yeah.

Spring and fall in particular.

Winds tend to be calm in winter, which sets us up for an inversion which sucks. I'd prefer the wind.

Summers tend to be hot and very dry.

Winter is our wet season, but our average annual precipitation is 7.5".

Similar weather I assume to what you get in Reno.
Mountain Doctor offline
User avatar
Posts: 641
Joined: Fri May 01, 2015 3:33 pm
Location: Richland
Aircraft: Maule MXT-7 180A

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

Mountain Doctor wrote:Heck yeah.

Spring and fall in particular.

Winds tend to be calm in winter, which sets us up for an inversion which sucks. I'd prefer the wind.

Summers tend to be hot and very dry.

Winter is our wet season, but our average annual precipitation is 7.5".

Similar weather I assume to what you get in Reno.
I was really kinda funnin' with you. I've never been to try-cities when the wind wasn't blowing like the dickens. Like Laramie Wyoming.
Mister701 offline
User avatar
Posts: 2134
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:13 pm
Location: Sparks
Aircraft: Rans S7LS

Re: Fat Tires and Bicycles

From a few days ago, I have a rack for my efatbike that slips into the trailer receiver on the National, I don't carry it there often, only when I'm working near an area I want to ride, in this case the city's groomed XC and snow mobile track, mid day, during the work week, I had it to myself. The sled belt tracks made for great traction, some parts were a fair bit steeper then pictured, and I never spun a tire. Steep enough that I was concerned about getting down safely, no problem there either. This job was a big custom house on a dead end road in a small subdivison that a friend has developed. A few years back, working on the first house and while still in his name and not turned over to the county, I asked him if I could land on the road. he just said "it's all mine still, hell yeah, go for it." Years later, now built up, I get a deep sense of satisfaction knowing I hit it while the getting was good.
Image
Image
courierguy offline
User avatar
Posts: 4197
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:52 pm
Location: Idaho
"Its easier to apologize then ask permission"
Tex McClatchy

DISPLAY OPTIONS

Previous
30 postsPage 2 of 21, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

Latest Features

Latest Knowledge Base