Hi all -

Looking to try to finish what I started 25 years ago. I have an insignificant number of hours (a little over 35) towards a PP, and intend to restart training towards my PP.

I'm looking at purchasing a plane with three others. I know that I'll do much better at flying much more regularly if I'm not looking at rental rates each time I go to fly. I learned that the first time around - right or wrong, it's my nature. One of the others is a zero time student that is basically in the same position as I, and the other is a retired commercial pilot with lots of GA time that just wants to get back in the air while some of his other projects are completing.

We've had a fairly wide aperture - 172's, stinson 108's, etc. something in that range. Another local pilot is looking to sell his plane, and we're considering it now, although its a bit more plane than we were initially considering - an older 172 with a 180 and a CS prop. It would be a good plane in the long run for us - not overly expensive (not cheap either), fun to fly.

As we're considering it, I'm also now weighing the cost and what we're investing in. My intention in getting my license is to continue beyond a PP and get an instrument rating. I don' necessarily think I'll do a lot of instrument flying down the road, but I would like to take my training to that level at least.

The above plane (older, but very clean, very nice, purchased from someone we know) with a CS prop, is about the same money as a more ragged out IFR capable 172. But being only a VFR plane, it won't help me get an instrument rating, even though in the long run, its much more in line with what I would probably do with the plane on a regular basis (we'd be going in and out of a not long grass strip).

Where would you put your money? The fun plane? Or a plane that the two of us can get instrument ratings in?

Buy the best plane that you can. Given that you are a long way from your instrument rating and a 172 with a 180 hp CS is a sweet plane. Get it checked out thoroughly, you don't want surprises. A few years down the road it will be an easy sale if you want to go IFR.

Opinions are like ......

daedaluscan wrote:Opinions are like ......

Nonetheless - appreciated. Thank you for weighing in!

which 180 conversion is it? I learned in and owned a cs 180 172. a few complaints, 1) the paint was too nice for me, I was always stressed about dinging it off airport 2) the CS prop had an rpm restriction below 2350 I think. So I ended up going fast everywhere. These are both good things for a traveling plane. I guess it just wasnt the right fit for my needs.

I put 800 hours on a 145 HP 172, my first plane. 15 airplanes later, I can honestly say the 172 was the one I had the most fun with. It was capable and I learned it well. Hard to go wrong with a 180HP conversion. That combo hits a lot of check marks and the O360 is as good of a motor as was ever built.

I'd be having a prebuy done on that 172...yesterday.

A friend has a 1956 172 with a O360. It is an incredibly fun airplane to fly and the performance is fantastic.

Depending on your ambitions, a 180hp 172 can be a forever airplane.

Same comment basically as flyingzebra posted except, I owned and flew a 145 HP 172A for 34 years. Owned several other planes over the years, but kept the 172. Flew it all over the lower 48. Great all around plane that will do what 99% of most guys actually need. Easy on fuel (mogas STC) cheap to own and maintain, plus, the O-300 is a very smooth running engine.

Having said that, I would have loved to have had a 180 HP engine in it! I passed on one converted several months ago for sale. After 'running the numbers' (costs/gains), I didn't see where I really needed the extra HP. I would have spent money that didn't gain me a lot of dollar value for the type of flying I was doing in the 145 HP plane. Actually flew the plane from MN to Oregon this summer and while I was worried before heading over the Rockies, it was worries that were unfounded. That O-300 hauled my son and I plus baggage with nary an issue.

The costs to upgrade the plane to IFR will be rather high, money can be saved while you build time. As was mentioned, a 180 HP 172 generally sells well.

I fly a ‘56 172 and love flying it. The prices on them are still on the rise….

And the other thing that you may not be aware of is that the market is quite frankly nuts right now. An unadvertised local plane might allow you the luxury of a normal buying experience with a thorough prebuy and less stress/rushing. Its a big purchase with plenty of time for regret and unexpected $$$$$$$$$$

Great feedback all - thank you. No doubts about the plane itself, just questioning if I should focus less on motor/prop and more on what can most cost effectively be used for training.

Very cognizant of current prices!! And the trend!! Ugh!! I started this search when I saw a nice '56 for a very fair price that I didn't move fast enough on, but that's how these things usually go for me.

I’d get the Stinson, or even a smaller champ

IMO the 172 is a poor trainer, it’s far to easy to fly and masks mistakes, it’s also very easy to grow out of.

You’ll end up a better plot and have much more fun going forward with the 108, or a 170 or 7AC

We were set on a Stinson, but they are harder to come by, and this one dropped into our lap. Also, the insurance for two new pilots learning on a tailwheel is not insignificant, and frankly, given this is the first airplane for two of us, and a relatively large expenditure, tricycle gear has its merits, no matter how endearing a tailwheel is.

Last, there are some Stinson options down the road that may pan out if this partnership works well.

Edit: 170's are a lot harder to find and compared to a 172, seem to command a cost premium these days (I'm pretty sure backcountrypilot has single handedly both revived interest in and driven up the cost of taildraggers - go look at old posts "you gan get a 180 for not much more money than a 180hp 172" ~ not anymore!!), and there's the taildragger insurance cost as well. Personally, I was looking at a Taylorcraft or a more benign 172 if I was going to purchase on my own,

Have a thorough pre-buy done and BUY IT!

Friend and aviation author/ back country pilot Reed White had a 180 powered 172, with extra tanks also I think, or bigger ones anyway. Flew the hell out of it.....

Antarctica wrote:I'm looking at purchasing a plane with three others. I know that I'll do much better at flying much more regularly if I'm not looking at rental rates each time I go to fly.

I know what you're getting at here but with any good partnership there's no escaping the reckoning.

As sole owner you just kinda suck up the expenses that are packaged in a different way from a wet rental rate. With a partnership you have to suck up those expenses AND record everything accurately so you can track who is the proportionate consumer of the resources. It can make renting seem like a good deal that's easy to walk away from.

Partnerships are not for me, I have learned.

I tend to agree with Zane. I'd avoid partnership if possible. But if you are set on that I would buy that 172 and fly the crap out of it. Then rent for the IFR when you get to that piont.

I'm with Zane and David on this. I've seen lots of partnerships over the years. Some work out great and some not so great. Definitely have to be of similar mindset to be in a partnership. One partnership I knew of, one owner would have high dollar instruments installed and then go to collect the "fair share" from the other partners without prior consent of upgrading the panel. That partnerships didn't last long. Get the partnership rules in writing and stick to them, could be a great match for the right guys.


Personally, I can't do one, but I guess in actuality, my son and I are partners. I buy 'em and he gets to fly 'em. LOL

Go for that 172, either in a partnership or solo.
Get your private ticket, then take a year or two to fly it, a lot, until it becomes second nature.
Then, think about working on that instrument ticket.
It might turn out that the real-life flying that you end up enjoying the most doesn't require an instrument rating.
I know that was the case for me.

Buy that 172 (assuming a pre buy doesn’t turn sour) and get your certificate. Then build a little time, including maybe some basic hood work with an instructor. At some point, you MAY be better off upgrading that 180 hp 172 to minimum IFR, and do the instrument rating in it.

If that’s really a nice plane, it’s going to increase in value, and if you upgrade avionics, you may not take a huge hit, because the plane will gain in value.

Me, I’d look no further.

MTV