Please don't stop your efforts, maybe add a note that these are private strips that Prior Permission Required (PPR) before using

JP256 wrote:But how can we claim that we're asking the strips be kept open for emergency use, and even for non-emergency, but safety-enhancing reasons (potty breaks, etc.), and then turn around and ask that the locations of these strips be kept hidden from the public. The impression that makes is that we want to keep them only for ourselves, and not allow anyone else to do so – only "the elite" who already know about them...

I hear what you’re saying. However there is no actual contradiction between both aggressively organizing and lobbying politicians while also being discrete and aware of attracting a crowd.

We don’t have some sort of moral obligation to publicize or advertise backcountry airstrips or bring people into the fold. There is nothing wrong about keeping quite. Hunters figured this out years ago, so did surfers and fly fisherman and other users of the wilderness. I’m not going to be an asshole about it, but I’m also not just going to volunteer where I killed my elk last year, and it certainly isn’t going to get posted on YouTube.

I have heard the flying cowboys types use this idea that they’re “saving GA” through popularizing backcountry flying to justify their videos/events. But while it may be true that GA is dying, backcountry aviation is booming - and it will be a victim of its own success the backcountry community doesn’t get smart.

David K wrote:After reading this I am scrapping a little project i was doing. I was putting a map together with owners permission of some of the private runways up here in Saskatchewan and Alberta. Most of them are farmers and ranchers like myself that I meet at flyin breakfasts and have their own grass strip and always looking for places to fly for a coffee and a good visit. But now I see how this could become abused if this map was made public. The internet is a bitter sweet kind of thing.

Yes I agree with mapleflt. Please dont quit this. Zzz has a map up here of users and our locations if we so desire. A lot of the farm strips are already on the Alberta facilities map, and if you have their permission and have them listed as PPR then I dont think they'll be abused. But for those of us that are doing cross countries and are flying farmers ourselves, it sure is nice to know some of these locations for safety and for alternates. I know around my area of Alberta most guys with strips love visitors and most of us are registering our strups to help protect our approaches from towers and wind turbines.
I'm planning to have a flyin bbq this summer, hopefully the first of many to come. And I hope people come! Maybe it's a bit different then the Idaho back country, but I'd sure like to go fly down there one day as well! Sounds like we're not welcome though. Makes it hard to support things like the RAF when we aren't welcome to fly down there. Kind of a double edged sword... more exposure should also hopefully mean more money put into the effort to keep these places open, which is what hammer asked for. So maybe exposure could be a good thing.

A1Skinner wrote:Maybe it's a bit different then the Idaho back country, but I'd sure like to go fly down there one day as well! Sounds like we're not welcome though. Makes it hard to support things like the RAF when we aren't welcome to fly down there.

Oh quit it with the mellow drama. First of all, this topic was about Oregon, second of all no one said you’re not welcome. I just don’t think the YouTube owes you a special invitation.

Every time this topic comes up we get this type of “oh we’re not welcome!” comments. It’s not true and it doesn’t contribute in a positive way to address the real issue of over-crowding and airstrip closures.

Farm strips in the middle of the country have been on the sectional and friendly for as long as there has been aviation. They do not have uniquely interesting terrain, but are nice. The internet thrives on fads. Commercial operations benefit, others perhaps not so much. In 17,000 hours I avoided the Meccas, but saw much interesting country. CFOT and Blackwater can tell you how nervous I was at Truckee at pattern altitude with traffic we heard but could not see. Kevin, Aktahoe, is a master of organization, but things happen with exposure. In major battles, extreme sports, and multiple airplane operations, acceptable loss is usually factored in.

National parks and public airports belong to all the people. The rest has to be negotiated, but much is just out there and isolated and nice.

As Hammer aptly put it, "...just use discretion." If a strip, as in the case of Bull Run, was previously closed, perhaps promoting it in a video isn't warranted. As has been said, just apt to get the BLM land manager(s) undue attention.

The RAF is a GREAT organization that works hand-in-hand with the Forest Service and BLM, as well as private land owners. Many previously closed strips have been opened due to the tireless efforts of RAF members. Similarly, the RAF has and continues to help private airstrip owners answer access questions and address liability concerns. So please, by all means, support the RAF.

Another topic for thoughtful consideration is what some of us refer to as "airstrip bagging." Flying into and relatively soon, if not immediately, flying out--simply to put it on video or in your logbook probably isn't why the strip was first established in the backcountry. Stay a while, enjoy the peace, quiet and solitude. Take the opportunity to warmly greet other backcountry users (hikers, campers, fisherman, rafters). Maybe even go to the effort of thanking them for sharing the airstrip with all manner of hobbyists. Strip "bagging" has been cited by the Forest Service in Idaho as an example of backcountry misuse.

Strip bagging = jet ski doing donuts all day in front of you cabin. Yes I can see the other side of it.

David K wrote:

skiermanmike wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

David K wrote:Maybe it's a bit different then the Idaho back country, but I'd sure like to go fly down there one day as well! Sounds like we're not welcome though. Makes it hard to support things like the RAF when we aren't welcome to fly down there.

Oh quit it with the mellow drama. First of all, this topic was about Oregon, second of all no one said you’re not welcome. I just don’t think the YouTube owes you a special invitation.

Every time this topic comes up we get this type of “oh we’re not welcome!” comments. It’s not true and it doesn’t contribute in a positive way to address the real issue of over-crowding and airstrip closures.

How did you do that?^ I don’t recall writing the above

I wrote it, but since he snipped my post that had you quoted in it it showed up like this.

My bad - fixed it.

mmmmmmm, mellow drama...

glacier wrote:mmmmmmm, mellow drama...

My favorite kind. Haha.

A1Skinner wrote:

glacier wrote:mmmmmmm, mellow drama...

My favorite kind. Haha.

so much less of a bummer than that Harsh Drama.

A1Skinner ++

I'll pretext that I'm a relatively new guy here, but I have a fair amount of experience in recreation on public lands. For a number of years I've been involved with a statewide mountain bike organization that works with private landowners to the feds and everything in between. We build and maintain trail systems, and work on and advocate for all of the required access. One of the things we're best at - meetings and paperwork.

One of the interesting things is that some of our issues are the same in the greater Puget Sound area(100 gazillion people) as they are in Ferry County(more Sasquatch than people). Relationships with land managers are absolutely paramount. The hordes of folks biking at Tiger Mt(close to Seattle) really just highlight the fact that with more people comes the need for more infrastructure. In some ways, local trail systems aren't terribly different than extending water pipe to a development.

I see parallels with back country aviation access. More users creates more pressure - and managing that pressure is not an easy task. From my seat it does appear that back country aviation is a growing segment, at least I've seen more media on it over the last few years. Anecdotally though the only times I've only landed in a back country spot that I'd call crowded were either RAF runway cleanups(with happy land managers) or the high sierra fly in.

I understand some of the ire directed at folks publishing back country aviation on youtube, but from my experience I think the increased pressure is throttled almost too well. If seeing someone land at a cool spot inspires someone to get out and do that too - the barrier is staggeringly high. Zero to hero on that curve would be a PPL and and aircraft capable of getting in and out. That's 6 months, $10k, and annual costs in the thousands with rental or insurance/storage/maintenance. If a 5 minute youtube clip is impetus enough for that, I say that's a major win in my book. Certainly help self police the folks who abuse access, but trying to limit use by keeping it to ourselves only contributes to the reduction of already dwindling GA numbers.

I'll admit some of my drive is selfish too. I've been to meetings for AOPA, EAA, WA pilots assn, etc. The average age could pass for my grandfather - and I'm 36. The two small airports I fly out of I'm the youngest - by 20 years. Getting more young people involved in GA is important to me, as I'd like to fly for many decades and without more users we lose the infrastructure. If there were even 10 or 20 more active pilots at the small suburban strip I tie down at in the summer we might not lose it to apartment buildings. As it stands it's only a matter of time. If getting those pilots means a bit more pressure on the back country I think we can find a way to accommodate if we're ahead of the curve with land managers.

So I'll close by repeating a plug - if nothing else become a member of our advocacy organizations. If you don't like something they're doing, get involved and there's a good chance you can change it. Be the people fostering good land manager relations, or toss them some dollars to help make it happen.