I read somewhere that over 90% of GA accidents were fuel related. My instructor always stressed having a lot more fuel than you will need and told me never to take off with under a quarter tanks even in the pattern. I do understand that different conditions IE: high DA, temp, and a short runway would dictate different actions but I always hand check and carry as much fuel as possible.

I read on the 150 site about a guy who flew a 150 acrossed the Atlantic with an approval from FAA to take off 500 lbs over gross. They had an L shaped tank made and took out the passenger seat. He flew to the Azores and filled up.

I am not suggesting anyone fly over gross but I don't go anywhere without having way too much fuel and sometimes that is hard to do in a 150.

d

Yep.....I NEVER trust my fuel gauge, I consider it broken!! I use my timer, clock and dip my tanks if I'm out playing for the day. I always dip my tanks before each flight of the day!! Even if I topped off the day before (just got into the habit). On long cross country's, I start off full and my bladder and back have about a 3 hour limit anyway. So I plan my fuel stops about every 3 hours or so, even though my 182 can go for over 5 hours on a good day.

I just sent my fuel senders out to Air Parts of Lock Haven, the overhaul gurus. I have had lousy fuel indications in the four years that I've owned my plane and decided enough is enough. I actually installed them last night and checked their calibration every 5 gallons and they look to be spot on. I'm very excited to have my equipment working now.

Having said and done all that, I still will not trust the gauges with my life. I installed the EI FP-5 fuel computer a few years ago and have calibrated it to the nut. I have been able to fly for 4 hours and not be off more than 2 tenths when I fill-up, usually less.

I figure between the fuel computer and the now-properly-working fuel gauges, I have a more complete picture of my fuel situation. Visually checking the fuel in each tank before I fly is still paramount. Like MTV, I'm paranoid about fuel and a foolish pilot and his airplane are soon parted. When I hear on the news " the pilot was having engine troubles" I know 99 times out of 100 what that means.

I have a calibrated fuel-dippin' stick (paint stirrer from Sherman Williams), before I fly (and/or after gassing up) I dip the tanks, then write the fuel quantity & tach time on a piece of tape & stick it on the panel. Don't have to worry then about forgetting to start/stop a timer. Works real well for me-- better than the E.I. fuel flow gizmo which used to be in the plane (& which I often used forgott to re-set after gassing up).

Eric

my tanks are small..only carry 25gal total. I manage my fuel by flying on the left take till it is dry, typically 3.25 hrs but I plan for 3 hrs. once that tank is dry I switch to the right tank and know I have the same time it just took to burn the left tank. 100% of the fuel is usable. works good for me. landed once and only had 2 gallons left nowdays I don't like to have any less than 5 gal in the tank.

the guages are worthless...only thing I use them for is to see if I'm almost dry on the left tank. wiggle the wings and if the guage moves then still got fuel in there. if it doesn't move then is almost time to change tanks. If I'm in the hills I dont wait for the tank to go dry...I switch at 3 hrs.

Whee,

Remember that you fuel maybe 100% usable when straight and level, but if you have you left tank empty and you make a long right turn (assuming the pickup is towards the plane centerline) It all could go quiet...

I too use a calibrated stick on preflight, and if just the tip is wet (about 5-6 gallons in each tank when on the ground) I add fuel before flying.

Best Regards,
Jeremy Milless

Even the FAA says that fuel gauges only have to read accurately when empty. I never, never trust a gas gauge. I use a calibrated stick and tach time and switch tanks every half hour. Even with that I usually have lots more gas on board than I need for the trip. One of my problems is that frequently my closest alternate airport is the one I started from, I have at least one time gone HNS to JNO hit the shit , had to go back to HNS and hit more shit then had to go back to JNO. This will not work with your standard 1/2 hr. reserve.

Having said all that anyone can look at the record and see that the vast majority of light plane accidents are fuel related, be careful.

shorton wrote:Having said all that anyone can look at the record and see that the vast majority of light plane accidents are fuel related, be careful.

OK - so I looked at the record (the 2008 Nall report on GA accidents) - Figure 7 on page 6 said that 6% of all GA accidents were caused by fuel management, and that 10% were fatal. The entire report is here: http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/08nall.pdf

Mongo wrote:Whee,

Remember that you fuel maybe 100% usable when straight and level, but if you have you left tank empty and you make a long right turn (assuming the pickup is towards the plane centerline) It all could go quiet...

I too use a calibrated stick on preflight, and if just the tip is wet (about 5-6 gallons in each tank when on the ground) I add fuel before flying.

Best Regards,
Jeremy Milless

Shouldn't matter unless you are uncoordinated in the turn.

Small Tail Caddy wrote:

Mongo wrote:Whee,

Remember that you fuel maybe 100% usable when straight and level, but if you have you left tank empty and you make a long right turn (assuming the pickup is towards the plane centerline) It all could go quiet...

I too use a calibrated stick on preflight, and if just the tip is wet (about 5-6 gallons in each tank when on the ground) I add fuel before flying.

Best Regards,
Jeremy Milless

Shouldn't matter unless you are uncoordinated in the turn.

or inverted!

I like the way your thinking Whee, burn one tank, note the time, and plan your next stop. EZ math. One thing that always made my butt pucker is the thought of the selector knob breaking off in my hand leaving me with one empty tank I can get to, and one full tank I can't. Or discovering that my right tank is not feeding the engine, and not having gas in the other to turn back to. This anal compulsive fear of mine has always lead me to burn one hour of gas out of each tank before exhausting one, then I still have knowledge of how much time I have before the second tank would run out.
Having said this I'll have you know I still grip the seat (no hands) every time I twist the selector valve to change from the exhausted tank even if I've changed it two or three times during that flight.
I also like Trents suggestion of logging your time since last gas. That along with looking in the tank during preflight is good stuff.
I once saw a Swift sitting in a pile at SoCal airport where the owner new he gassed up the night before, only to have most of his gas stolen before the next morning. After the engine quit on takeoff, his wheels touched down off the end of the runway just as he ran into a parked car. Lots of bruising I was told, but didn't kill him.
Not much has taken the joy out of a flight for me as wondering if I have enough to make it to my destination.
Lots of gas has become one of my gotta have's.
Good flying,

Tom

I learned to fly in a 152, the fuel is either on or off, you couldn't select which tank the fuel came from. That being the case it's always been unclear to me why not just leave it on "BOTH", like in a 172 or 182? Why do you select right or left or go back and forth between the two?

TomW wrote: One thing that always made my butt pucker is the thought of the selector knob breaking off in my hand

Shit! I never thought of that one. I can see a guy making the Han Solo/Indiana Jones "I can't win" face while looking at that thing in his hand.

That's why on any long flight where I'll be needing all my fuel, I switch tanks about 15 minutes into the flight to make sure both (or more) tanks will feed right.

And, if possible, I switch 'em over ground I can land on if the engine quits.

Gump

I've often pondered whether my 12 gallon aux tank, carried strapped down on my forward cargo deck (replaces the pass. seat, welded aluminum, vented outside, quick and easy removal) in my S-7S, is more potentially dangerous then running out of gas and/or stopping a lot more. I notice once the wing tanks lower enough I pump the 12 g. up into them ASAP, on the theory that it be "safer" in a crash...its hard to give up another 3+hrs duration at cruise speeds so thats why I do it solo, this article makes me feel better! kidding....

courierguy wrote:I've often pondered whether my 12 gallon aux tank, carried strapped down on my forward cargo deck (replaces the pass. seat, welded aluminum, vented outside, quick and easy removal) in my S-7S, is more potentially dangerous then running out of gas and/or stopping a lot more. I notice once the wing tanks lower enough I pump the 12 g. up into them ASAP, on the theory that it be "safer" in a crash...its hard to give up another 3+hrs duration at cruise speeds so thats why I do it solo, this article makes me feel better! kidding....

You'll never get all the gas out of there in flight, right? At least a little left over. So you crash and that tank ruptures and there's a spark. That would be a hell of a fireball. Maybe not enough to kill you but you'll get more than a tan.

TomW wrote: Or discovering that my right tank is not feeding the engine, and not having gas in the other to turn back to.

I didn't mention that I takeoff on the right tank then switch to the left till it is dry...this lets me know the right tank is gonna work when I need it. Luscombes glide really good...espically when the prop is stopped

Student BCP wrote:why not just leave it on "BOTH", like in a 172 or 182? Why do you select right or left or go back and forth between the two?

No "both" on my plane. There has to be a vent line connecting the tanks to run on "both" or the fuel won't drain properly.

TomW wrote:I like the way your thinking Whee, burn one tank, note the time, and plan your next stop. EZ math. One thing that always made my butt pucker is the thought of the selector knob breaking off in my hand leaving me with one empty tank I can get to, and one full tank I can't. Or discovering that my right tank is not feeding the engine, and not having gas in the other to turn back to. This anal compulsive fear of mine has always lead me to burn one hour of gas out of each tank before exhausting one, then I still have knowledge of how much time I have before the second tank would run out.
Having said this I'll have you know I still grip the seat (no hands) every time I twist the selector valve to change from the exhausted tank even if I've changed it two or three times during that flight.
I also like Trents suggestion of logging your time since last gas. That along with looking in the tank during preflight is good stuff.
I once saw a Swift sitting in a pile at SoCal airport where the owner new he gassed up the night before, only to have most of his gas stolen before the next morning. After the engine quit on takeoff, his wheels touched down off the end of the runway just as he ran into a parked car. Lots of bruising I was told, but didn't kill him.
Not much has taken the joy out of a flight for me as wondering if I have enough to make it to my destination.
Lots of gas has become one of my gotta have's.
Good flying,

Tom

True story,
We did the annual on the stinson last month, the head wrench grabs the fuel selector to turn it off and for some reason pulls out at the same time he turns it, IT FALLS OFF IN HIS HAND. The valve itself is mounted on the firewall with an extension to the selector handle, there was no cotter pin holding the extension to the valve. I had that valve rebuilt about 2 years ago and suspect it was installed without the cotter pin. Not a good thought thinking about the times I have run a tank dry. I don't think there is any way to slip the extension back over the valve in flight.

1SeventyZ wrote:

TomW wrote: One thing that always made my butt pucker is the thought of the selector knob breaking off in my hand

Shit! I never thought of that one. I can see a guy making the Han Solo/Indiana Jones "I can't win" face while looking at that thing in his hand.

No shit!!

But like Gump says, "If possible.......switch the tanks over ground you can land on........"

I leave my valve on "Both" and don't worry about it. Seams to fly fine to me with it in the "Both" position all the time.