The title says it all. I have some regular and back country flying experience and I want to get into landing on random gravel bars, beaches, alpine meadows, etc. in the near future. I am just wondering if there is any advice those of you who have already made the leap to landing in random places can give me. Anything from a good book to read about the subject (or where to find F.E. Potts' Guide to Bush Flying...for less than $290) and useful rules of thumb to tips for assessing potential landing sites and flying exercises I can do now that will pay off once I start into off-strip flying.

Really anything would be helpful. It seems like off-strip (wheel) flying in anything less than a Twin Otter is a very small niche of aviation in Canada.

I live in NE Pennsyvania and have found that with New Jersey close by there are lots of opportuntities to practice off-strip flying. I started easy. WalMart parking lots were big and wide. Had to watch for lamp posts though, That taught me to fly over the potential landing spot at least once to check the spacing of posts. Same as looking for trees.

Once I mastered that I moved on to McDonald's drive thrus. There I learned to drag my wheels for dumpsters before landing. I have heard that works for rocks to.

Currently I am practicing slowing down using in-ground pools (trust me, the above-ground pools don't work nearly as well) before rolling into a back yard. Got to watch for chain link fences though. That will teach you that sometimes you can land where there isn't enough room to take off.

I am looking forward to the challenge of corner WAWA parking lots next. I understand from a buddy that you can use the roofs of cars as long as you keep the tailwheel up.

By the way, I kept GPS coordinates of all my favorite off-strip spots if you want them.

Free advice is often worth what you pay for it (as evidenced by the previous reply). Get some good flight training. Its not cheap , but worth the investment. I had a lot of practice landing on grass and gravel ag strips and with short and soft field techniqies. However, when I started getting serious about backcountry flying, My survival instincts told me to get training. I went to AK and took a comprehensive bush flying/mountain flying course. There is no substitute.

books and google searches wont get you far enough. You will need to combine some good reading with some good practical training to do it safely.

One of the most important skills, regardless of what equipment you're flying, is being able to accurately estimate the length of the landing area.

When you're flying at 60 kts (69 mph), you're doing 100 ft/s (actually 101.2). Use a stopwatch to count the number of seconds to fly the length of the landing area at that speed, and multiply by a hundred to get the length of the landing area in feet. Unless you're AMAZINGLY precise, don't use the "one one thousand, two one thousand" voice count to estimate the time, it's not accurate enough. If there's a wind, measure it both directions and based on the magnitude of the different times, you can estimate the headwind or tailwind component.

Thanks kevbert.

I do realize I likely won't learn that much online, but I figured I may as well see if anyone had some useful comments. I'm on the other side of the world from home for the year and it is flat out illegal for a wheel plane to land at any unregistered/certified/authorized location. The closest I can get to landing off-strip here is landing at a new airstrip, but even that requires prior approval and a whole bunch of government paperwork.

Maybe I should have mentioned that when I get home I would obviously go flying with someone who knows what they're doing before I started doing any off-airport flying. I don't really feel like bending metal if I can help it.

Marc wrote: Anything from a good book to read about the subject (or where to find F.E. Potts' Guide to Bush Flying...for less than $290)

Holy shit. You're right about the cost. I called a couple book sources and they all said the same thing. Out of print, none to be found, and high $$$ for those floating around out there. That's too bad, as Potts had a real knack for being able to translate the "how do you do it" stuff into readable English. If you can, bum a copy from someone, or find one at a library. It's well worth reading for anyone wanting to work or play with an airplane in the boonies.

Another of my flying "bibles" is, "Last of the Bush Pilots" by Harmon "Bud" Helmericks. This book is a treasure chest of information about backcountry and cold weather flying. Last I looked you could find it on Amazon and eBay.

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Bush-Pilots- ... roduct_top

Gump

Holy shit. You're right about the cost.

I have this book. I didn't realize it was so valuable. I bought it 10 years ago. Potts died a few years back. The book is full of incredible information. However, I most admire him for living in the bush with some of the most beautiful women. The book has pictures of him with a few of the hottest ladies (I think this was in 1969). they look like super models of the time. One photo shows a women in a short shorts standing knee deep in water. She was there to indicate how the gravel bar runway was flooded in the spring or something like that. He also shacked up with another chick that had a Russian name who is photographed in a few places in the book (one over the dead bear she offed with a Python revolver in self defence and another with her in a fur coat next to a Super-Cub). I wouldn't sell my copy for any less either!

Oh yeah, its like the best Bush pilot text ever written too. Shows you where my mind is at

Pott's book On-Line. http://www.fepco.com/index.html

I found Pott's book at Powells books two years ago for the regular price...I just checked, they don't have another one..I would suggest you look at other book sellers, NOT amazon; Bummer, it's a very good book to have, right in there with the mountian flying bible.

I got curious earlier, and spent a good part of the day looking at book sources and making phone calls. There aren't any reasonably priced copies out there right now.

Gump

I'd say master the art of slow flight. Work on it at airports, gravel strips, anywhere you can until you can make it perfect all the way to the deck. Bring it in as slow as you can, and even practice go arounds on that. In my short time I've learned its invaluable should the wind act up against you or you get close and find out its really mud on the ground, not gravel or clay like you thought.

I am no pro, but the majority of my short flying time has been with instructors that commercially fly off airport operations, and my PPL was based on learning their concepts.

DANG!!! I purchased Pott's book a few years ago and had no idea it was so valuable either. I might want to put it in the safe.
If I remember correctly most of the book is posted on line. Maybe it was the link posted a couple of replies back. (Sorry, didn't look at it)
Pott's book and The Mountain Flying Bible, also previously mentioned are two good books. I also have "Last of The Bush Pilots" and I found it a little hard to read when I first got it. Maybe now that I know a 'little' more about flying I should reread it.....if I can find where I put it.
WW

Just bought a copy of Potts book on Amazon a month ago for $175... Cheapest I've seen in a little over a year of searching... Potentially worth every penny

I bought a copy from the Aviators' Store at Boeing Field in Seattle a couple years ago for $17 (half the list price) because it was slightly damaged. I called Aviation Books (which is listed on the F.E. Potts website as the North American distributor for the book and is upstairs from the Aviators' Store). They said the book has been out of print for several years and they don't have any more copies. I suggested that they might want to consider a reprint, considering the price and interest expressed here at BCP! She said she would pass the information along.

maulewaco wrote:I say if anyone wants to go play on a river bar or open land off airport have at it. Just make sure you do not have insurance. If you f*&k up and have your mistake paid for by the insurance company, which is everyone else with insurance you should have to pay for one fuel fill up for all of the insured who will pay in the long run while you walk away with money or a new bird.
If anyone of you sons of bitches raise the rates any more from your own screw up PISS OFF! We will find you.

Wouldn't it be something if this thread got thrown into hot air over landing off airport. This is a back country site. Get a nosewheel and some new friends.

Don't want to miss this

Oh c'mon, can't everyone take a joke. He was joking right? about actually landing off airport? That's nuts.

This is weird

geez you mean all those dirt roads and dry lake beds I've landed on I wasn't supposed to???????

I am new to this site, i just bought a Pponk 182 to do some backcountry strips in MT, ID and OR. My other plane is a single turbine so I also belong to that group as well. I can tell from the limited time i have been on this site, there are some down to earth folks committed to this kind of flying, some of you are off in another world. In MT, they call you "freeman".