hotrod150 wrote: I would instead emphasize what I call "maneuvering flight"-- generally in the neighborhood of 1.3 to 1.5 x Vso.

You'll notice that I refer to "slower flight." I agree with you.

I agree with hotrod 150 on a 3300ft strip in the mountains I wouldent worry about coming down final real slow , id spend more time worrying about the wind conditions on final.

I have flown into Lacomb a few times there seems to be a good bunch of guys there, might be worth your time to fly out there on a nice saturday afternoon and hang out for awile see who you meet. there are several taildraggers there everything from a old champ to a brand new maule, seemed to be a friendly bunch of guys who should have some local knolege.

hotrod150 wrote:

182 STOL driver wrote:.....Go out to pratice area and gain some altitude and lets do some slow flight for a extended period maybe
using a road or highway for referance -don't try to slow airplane up untilit stalls .Keep praticeing until you can do shallow banked turns in slow flight 360 right and left without loosing altitude .....

I'm more of a back-forty pilot than a true back-country pilot, but I wonder about the repeated references to "slow flight" as it applies to real-life flying. Are we talking about true "slow flight"- aka "minimum controllable airspeed"? The slow flight I was taught involved operating well on the back side of the power curve, generally at less than power-off stall airspeed, where a reduction in power or increase in attitude resulted in a stall. This is not the mode I care to be operating in while maneuvering to land in tight quarters-- esp in a mountainous environment with tricky wind conditions. I would instead emphasize what I call "maneuvering flight"-- generally in the neighborhood of 1.3 to 1.5 x Vso.

Eric

In my old 182 with Sportsman STOL kit I do slow flight at 50 mph indicated -set the trim-power and flaps 10 and cruise like a hawk. Shallow turns (under 15 degrees bank) makes real small turnarounds in canyons. 60mph is pretty good for steeper turns.I also use a Lift Reserve Indicator as it's much more accurate than the airspeed and rate of climb. Turns about a point using top rudder to hold the turn in or out. Use your feet to control the turn and ailerons to set the bank -slight back pressure to keep the nose from dipping>and add a little power. Level the wings and pull 40 degrees of flap and watch the airspeed drop and bounce off the peg. Use the LRI and power to sink like a helicopter >under control working your feet to maintain directional control and elevator just slight movements . It's all about control. I've had 40+ years and several thousand hours of practice so "don't try this with proper practice
or training ".
Thank you Uncle Sam for making me a helicopter pilot where the area I worked at was 80 knots and 80 ft, AGL for days and months while in left turns on end to practice in-while being shot at.

S.A.E.P. for all of you Members of the 269th. Combat Aviation Battalion watching . AIM HIGH !

182 STOL wrote:...Turns about a point using top rudder to hold the turn in or out. Use your feet to control the turn and ailerons to set the bank -slight back pressure to keep the nose from dipping>and add a little power.
.....

Curious as to what the slip/skid ball is doing when this top rudder action is going on? Is it centered? If not.....I'm sure you have way more time & experience than me so no offense, but deliberate uncoordinated slow(er) flight seems to me like asking for trouble. I do agree with you about slowing down for the good tight "narrow canyon" u-turn.

hotrod150 wrote:

182 STOL wrote:...Turns about a point using top rudder to hold the turn in or out. Use your feet to control the turn and ailerons to set the bank -slight back pressure to keep the nose from dipping>and add a little power.
.....

Curious as to what the slip/skid ball is doing when this top rudder action is going on? Is it centered? If not.....I'm sure you have way more time & experience than me so no offense, but deliberate uncoordinated slow(er) flight seems to me like asking for trouble. I do agree with you about slowing down for the good tight "narrow canyon" u-turn.

CONTROL not the ball centered at whatever the speed is. Most of your glider pilots will cross control at speed to stay in lift. Center the Ball when in cruise . Were talking low and slow here YMMV .

That's what I mean: cross-control is fine at speed, but low and slow -- not so much. If you get distracted or whatever & the airplane does stall with the ball way out, things can go to hell pretty quick. Low speed, cross-control, stall-- isn't this the typical lead-up to the dreaded "stall-spin on the turn to final" scenario?

hotrod150 wrote:That's what I mean: cross-control is fine at speed, but low and slow -- not so much. If you get distracted or whatever & the airplane does stall with the ball way out, things can go to hell pretty quick. Low speed, cross-control, stall-- isn't this the typical lead-up to the dreaded "stall-spin on the turn to final" scenario?

I am by know means an expert but it seems to me that in a small plane you can do very little damage to yourself by "overcontrolling" the rudder in uncoordinated flight without any aileron inputs or using only gentle inputs. Remember the slipping stall will cause an uncommanded roll towards the high wing. A stall yes, but not a typical spin entry and it is usually self-correcting because the AOA on that wing is then reduced below the critical level.

You can practice your steep turns without touching the yoke at all.

Now someone can shoot holes in my theory

once&futr_alaskaflyer go up high and do steep turns until you are holding the nose up with oposite rudder then let it stall and see how much altitude you loose before you save it. The high wing does drop first but does so violently that I have never been able to not enter a spin, at low level you would be history, and ive only done it in a cessna 120 cessna 170 and a supercub all of wich are more dosile than a pacer. the best I ever saved it in was 175 ft but lots were over 500 ft.
A hightime cub pilot told me If you are doing steep turns at lo level,to look at wildlife for example, you should take your feet off the rudder pedals, If you cant hold the turn with aleron and elivator you should not be doing it. I believe he was absolutly rite.

I'm not sure what Bill is saying there either, hope he can clarify it a bit further.

I got my very first super cub check - out from Cecil Ice, who if you live anywhere near the Dakotas, needs no introduction and could easily be classified as an authority on flying airplanes. His first demonstration to me was slow, uncoordinated flight, such as when the old rancher was out there circling watching the cow have a calf (his words) and the 2 turn spin that ensued therein.

Ball centered for me, but I'm a novice and know nothing of helicopters except that I want one.

gb