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Gotta go FAST

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Gotta go FAST

Finally got around to starting this thread.

Anyway, I had an interesting experience with the local towered airport. The controller seemed to want to talk so fast, it sounded like slurred mumbling. I could barely understand his taxi instructions.

Once airborne, he had me turn on a downwind, after which he would call my turn to the left to leave the area. Well, as I watched a Blackhawk come in on approach, he calls my turn, but then slurs the last bit. I mean he barely keys the mic and he's already speaking 90 mph. He's also pretty quiet; hard to hear through radio static.

Now I ASSUME he wants me to continue straight a bit so I wont be cutting off the heli, in case he goes missed (the heli approached opposite the way I took off); but I don't like to assume so I ask him to repeat.

He replies EXACTLY the same, quick and mumbly. So I start messing with my radios trying to see if I can hear him any better. You would think he would reply a little slower and louder.

As I ask him to repeat again, the heli decides to go missed, and we are now beside each other with the heli climbing to my altitude. I had kept going straight so we had plenty of distance.

Finally the tower says, if I have the Blackhawk in sight, I can just go behind him, so I guess it all worked out.

When I came back in, it was a different controller and communication was easy, so no issue with my radios. This is NOT a high traffic airport, so speed really isn't necessary.

SO... this leads to wonder what experience have you guys had with fast talking controllers and pilots? I know I am not the only one. :D
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Re: Gotta go FAST

I had pipelines that crossed and/or passed close by several large airports. Some tower controllers talked too fast but most picked up on my slowly worded initial call and responded slowly. Their business is handling traffic and they will soon realize they can't do that quickly if they have to repeat often. Wilco means I understand and I will comply. Don't say that until you understand and can safely comply.
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Re: Gotta go FAST

There is a controller that I talk to often as I go through Charlie space in Co. Springs. Every time she talks to me its so fast I can never understand her. I always do the same thing "Ma'am, I can't comply if I can't understand you; Please slow your speech and speak up". I've heard a dozen other pilots ask her to do the same thing. I even heard a pilot tell her he was going to report her to the FAA.

ALWAYS ask a controller to repeat if you did not hear their instructions!

Jim
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Re: Gotta go FAST

During my instrument training a lot of years ago, I was in Santa Monica, thus dealing with LA controllers all the time. Most were great, but there was a female controller at SMO who talked faster than anyone could understand. The instructors there, when they heard her voice on the freq. would tell the student to end their request with "Please Read SLowly". That almost never worked with her, until the second or third time. Meanwhile, she's eating up everyone else's time.....quality act.

So, one day, we're in the run up area, right behind a fellow from Arkansas in his V Tail Bonanza. The subject controller is on clearance delivery freq. and I'm dreading trying to copy clearance. The gent from Arkansas comes up the frequency, and says "Santa Monica Clearance Delivery, this is Bonanza 1234Xray, IFR to Long Beach, and ready to copy my clearance. Ya'll can read it one time real slow, or ten times fast--Don't make no difference to me." This was all delivered with a VERY slow drawl, and itself took about four times as long as a "normal" request for clearance.

The controller came right back, then started laughing, and un keyed her mic. A few seconds later, she came back with "Bo-nan-za Oone, Twoo, Threee, Fower Xray is cu-leared to Lonnnng Beach, via......etc" All delivered EXTREMELY slowly and phonetically. He read back his clearance and all was well. I called for clearance and she actually slowed it down a little for me.

The REALLY funny thing was we followed that Bonanza through the LA airspace for a good hour and a half, and EVERY controller he talked to gave him every instruction in VERY slow, VERY phonetically correct terminology. Apparently, someone in SMO got on the horn to LA controllers and let them know this guy could bring the system to its knees.

After our flight, my instructor went over to the Bonanza guy's instructor and told him that was good, putting the guy up to that. The instructor said he had no idea he was going to do that....he just told him the usual, ask them to read slowly.

There's no excuse for a controller playing those games. If they're too fast or garbled to understand once, that's no big deal, ask them to repeat, slowly. If they do it again....work on your southern drawl, I reckon.

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Re: Gotta go FAST

I've had a few bad experiences when I tried to "fix the problem at my end", instead of making the inability to communicate a shared problem.

If I can't hear control, I now have a new tactic. I tell them I can't hear / understand them and keep repeating it until something changes at their end, while flying the plane first and foremost, then focusing on remaining clear of airspace or following my last instruction. Sometimes it gets painful... especially in remote areas with poor coverage. Getting the heavies up top to relay instructions is surprisingly common out those ways.
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Re: Gotta go FAST

I heard a similar story, only the pilot said:
"y'all hear how fast I'm talkin? That's how fast I listen."

I fly through the local Navy airspace pretty often, the controllers generally do a great job with airline traffic in their sector, GA traffic going to the San Juan Islands, plus their own military traffic.
But I always have trouble understanding one particular female controller.
She doesn't speak esp fast, or quietly--
my theory is it's just that the frequencies of her voice happen to match the frequencies where I have hearing loss.
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Re: Gotta go FAST

hotrod180 wrote:But I always have trouble understanding one particular female controller.
She doesn't speak esp fast, or quietly--
my theory is it's just that the frequencies of her voice happen to match the frequencies where I have hearing loss.

I have the same trouble...with my wife's voice frequencies...
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Re: Gotta go FAST

Two stories, and my advice:

First one: When I was first learning and afraid of the radio, my instructor and I had just started the 150 and turned on the radio. Bill, another student but more "advanced" than I was at the moment, was calling Elmendorf Ground and machine-gunned his request. I said to my instructor, "Gosh, I wish I could talk on the radio that well." My instructor said, "Bullshit. Nobody can understand him--don't do it his way."

Then the controller responded, as if to emphasize what my instructor said: "aircraft calling ground, say again, more slowly." Bill repeated his machine-gunned request. "Aircraft calling ground, either you slow down, or you're not going anywhere. Try it again, much more slowly." Bill slowed down, and he was cleared to taxi as requested. Good lesson for me!

Second one: On a HSEATS flight for Angel Flight West, I'd just flown from Fort Collins to Killeen, Texas, to retrieve a young girl and her dog and almost everything she owned. She'd been visiting her uncle in Killeen when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, and her family had been air-evac'd from there to Denver; I was delivering her to reunite her with her family. In my poky little airplane, I'd been in the air for almost 11 hours when we arrived at Centennial (KAPA). After unloading her and her dog, meeting her mom and siblings, showing her little brother all the doodads on my airplane's panel, etc., it was about 11 p.m. when I called KAPA Clearance Delivery for my clearance back to Fort Collins, and except for me, nothing was moving in or out of the airport.

She rapid-fired the clearance, and I couldn't get any of it written down. I said, "Say again everything after Cessna xxx is cleared to Fort Collins Downtown." Same rapid fire repeat. So I said, "Ma'am, I've been flying for 11 hours today. That's a really long time in a 172. I'm really, really tired. Please say again clearance, this time much more slowly." She laughed, and then she did, spacing the words out so much I could have written each of them separately instead of using my usual shorthand, and finishing with, "Is that slow enough for you?" I said it was, read back the clearance, and thanked her.

I then called Ground for taxi, and it was the same controller! She read my taxi instructions very slowly, too. I read them back, and again thanked her.

After doing my run-up, I called Tower for take off, and again it was the same controller. She gave me my take off clearance just as slowly, and then when she cleared me to contact Departure, also slowly, I thanked her again. She replied, "You're welcome. Now you get home and get some rest, OK?" "Yes ma'am, I'll do that."

My advice: Every so often you'll run into a pilot or controller who rapid-fires his/her transmissions too fast, or mumbles, or speaks too quietly, for anyone to copy or even understand. If you don't understand the transmission, ask them to say again. If you can say why, often they'll comply and make it understandable. But never, never assume that you understand what was meant when you didn't catch the whole transmission. Communication is a 2-way street, requiring both parties to cooperate--they have to say it right, and you have to hear and understand them. Then you have to say it right, and they have to understand you.

One other thing that goes with all this: a good ANR headset can make a huge difference in your ability to understand, especially if you have any hearing defects. For years, I had a plain David Clark 13.4 passive headset, and it worked fine. After awhile, I couldn't hear quite as well--my hearing had deteriorated some. Then I modified it with the Oregon Aero Hushkit and Comfortkit, and I could hear a whole lot better, for quite awhile. Then one day I was flying from Greeley to south of Denver and misunderstood the controller, and I believed that I had been cleared through the Class Bravo. Fortunately, because I wasn't sure I'd heard correctly, I asked, "confirm cleared through the Bravo"--the controller literally yelled at me that I was not cleared through it and to get out of it now! According to my GPS, I hadn't actually entered it, but I got out of there PDQ. So that weekend, I ordered a Headsets Inc. conversion kit, and converted that headset to ANR. What a difference!

The HI conversion, which provides great ANR, served me well for several years. A year ago, I bought a DC One-X headset, which is even better--lighter, every bit as comfortable, with even better ANR, and it has Bluetooth. So the HI converted 13.4 has become the front seat passenger headset. My backseaters are relegated to my older passive DCs, although both have the Oregon Aero Comfortkits and Hushkits--and it's quieter back there anyway.

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Re: Gotta go FAST

whee wrote:
hotrod180 wrote:But I always have trouble understanding one particular female controller.
She doesn't speak esp fast, or quietly--
my theory is it's just that the frequencies of her voice happen to match the frequencies where I have hearing loss.

I have the same trouble...with my wife's voice frequencies...
X2. Haha.

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Re: Gotta go FAST

A bit off topic, but for a laugh: I spent nearly a full day in a hospital emergency department this week. I was in a treatment chair next to a kind, compassionate older woman who was obviously suffering some mental health issues. She would not be quiet and let me sleep, and I hadn't slept for two days.

Finally, I couldn't take anymore. I told her how I thought she was very nice, but as much as she'd heard me talk, that's about as much as I wanted to hear. Then I repeated how much appreciated her feelings of compassion. It worked. The nurse gave me a look of appreciation, and I think the whole room sighed relief!

Apparently kleptomania was part of her symptom, because not much later, the police and security escorted her out. She'd been stealing other patients belongings.

The story about "as fast as I talk is as fast as I can listen" was on my mind when I chose my words.
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Re: Gotta go FAST

whee wrote:
hotrod180 wrote:But I always have trouble understanding one particular female controller.
She doesn't speak esp fast, or quietly--
my theory is it's just that the frequencies of her voice happen to match the frequencies where I have hearing loss.

I have the same trouble...with my wife's voice frequencies...

Same here. She used to give me a hard time about selective hearing until I showed her my hearing test report, haha!
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Re: Gotta go FAST

This is one of my pet peeves. Air Force controllers are the worst. There seems to be a fast talking contest on many bases. I was flying into McDill in Florida on a Medivac one rainy day. The ATIS was read so fast I had to listen to it 4-5 times to catch it all. I mentioned it to the tower controller that it was unsat. Low and behold when I got switched to ground, the same voice from the ATIS was there. I politely asked the controller if she recorded the ATIS. She confirmed she did. I asked if it was a game to record it that fast without taking a breath. After an awkward silence, I told her if she ever recorded an ATIS like that again, I would file a HATR, shut down my aircraft and find her boss.

I am not sure if they think they are being helpful or speeding up the process by talking fast or think they are being cool. I have no problem telling controllers to slow down. You would think after many requests to repeat clearances, they would slow down and speak up.

Jake


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