lesuther wrote:Not to stir the pot or anything, but...

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/4185 ... r-network/

Now THAT'S cool!

mtv wrote:A satellite bases text device: http://www.satphonestore.com/tech-brows ... tor.html...

Good god is that a dangerous site! Pretty amazing what's out there, if you want to pay for it. Sat-phones that double as sat-bounce radios...PTT rather than dial up. Crazy.

I'm going to try a couple VHF radios and see what range extension I get over the CB radios we currently use, and if we can hit any of the repeaters in the area, which I rather doubt. If it's a zero-gain I can just return them and reexamine a satellite based system. I don't mind the one-off cost of hardware, but the monthly fees really add up and I'd sure rather not add another one.

Where in the Bob? I'm sure there are many places where you could hit a repeater but most places you probably cannot. Are you thinking someplace specific like Schafer Meadows or talking a backpacking/hunting trip?

lesuther wrote:Not to stir the pot or anything, but...

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/4185 ... r-network/

That article is from 2010. I see a few potential issues in using an OpenBTS system to solve the OP's communication requirement.

#1 Spectrum licensing. You have to be licensed to operate a transmitter on the frequencies that the SDR radio in your OpenBTS system would transmit on. These would be the same spectrum that your local phone carriers use. If you failed to get a license you might get away with it for awhile. If you got caught you would probably face significant fines.
#2 Cost. I looked up one of the SDR radios that was listed (Fairwaves UmTRX v2.2), price $950. Add a computer/antennas and other peripherals to that.
#3 TX Power. The above SDR unit puts out 100mW of power at lower frequencies and even less on higher frequencies. That's 1/10 of a watt. You would probably need multiple systems and some serious antennas to cover anything more than right around your house.

I can imagine that putting one of these together could easily cost $2000. Maybe cheaper if you already had a computer to dedicate to the project and you set it up at your home and it didn't require an off the grid system to power it. Maybe find a used antenna from a cell phone provider. I don't see any way that only one of these systems would solve the OP's requirements.

topgun260 wrote: I see a few potential issues in using an OpenBTS system to solve the OP's communication requirement.

There are a number of speed bumps to address before something like this is practical. If the OP is seeking a turn-key solution, this is not likely up their alley. If they are a tinkering type, many of the issues are not that big of a deal.

1. Spectrum- this is the largest hurdle. If the OP is remote enough, nobody will notice. The system is largely complaint driven. Interference would have to be avoided in any case. This might take it off the table for most. For the rest, several vendors in the US offer path to "temporary" legal field licenses.

2. Cost. A few very capable systems compatible with OpenBTS are available for under 500. One of them (BladeRF) is around $420 and very good. It is the basis of a couple of very good ADS-b in and out projects, and I have played with it for that purpose. The end to end costs will still be around $2k however. Remote comms are expensive.

3. Power- This is the easiest. Amps are in the $100-$500 range. The power is turned way down from the 100 mW max when using an amp.

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But all this was just a curiosity, hence the "not to stir the pot..."

A solution that actually does work well are my Ubiquiti stations. Some of them have radiation patterns that work well out to 15 degrees @-75dBm and 3 miles. You can service a lot of area with that. My rig is -75 dBm @ about 3 degrees and from 8 miles away (at 100mbit/s), and I get wifi in a large portion of the area around my place as long as I'm not behind a tree. It takes about 15W-20W per station (could be solar/battery powered), and I have under $400 into them off of Ebay. I have an internet provider, but the OP might be able to get sat internet. Vonage works fine on my network of course, but I don't bother since I have cell service. If the restrictions are not a factor (vegetation blocks it), it might make for an adequate and easy to install possibility.

topgun260 wrote:Where in the Bob? I'm sure there are many places where you could hit a repeater but most places you probably cannot. Are you thinking someplace specific like Schafer Meadows or talking a backpacking/hunting trip?

More of a rhetorical question I guess. I did a quick look at the 2M repeaters in the state. There isn't one that you could hit anywhere within the Bob. If you were along the wilderness border ridge lines you might have a shot if you were looking down into the valleys just outside the Bob. But if you're in the interior a 2M radio is of zero value. I didn't bother looking at the 70cm and other bands as it is obvious ham radio is of no use. I used this list and assumed where they put it on the map is correct.

https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/ ... id=30&loc=%&call=%&use=%

Bonanza Man wrote:

topgun260 wrote:Where in the Bob? I'm sure there are many places where you could hit a repeater but most places you probably cannot. Are you thinking someplace specific like Schafer Meadows or talking a backpacking/hunting trip?

More of a rhetorical question I guess. I did a quick look at the 2M repeaters in the state. There isn't one that you could hit anywhere within the Bob. If you were along the wilderness border ridge lines you might have a shot if you were looking down into the valleys just outside the Bob. But if you're in the interior a 2M radio is of zero value. I didn't bother looking at the 70cm and other bands as it is obvious ham radio is of no use. I used this list and assumed where they put it on the map is correct.

https://www.repeaterbook.com/repeaters/ ... id=30&loc=%&call=%&use=%

You won’t hit a repeater, but they can be a good way for two people in the Bob to stay in touch via simplex transmissions.

I found this interesting device for boosting the transmit/receive capability of handheld radios. I haven't tried it, but it gets good reviews and they make one specifically for aviation band radios:

http://rattailantenna.com/

I don't know how well it'd work in a aircraft, and it probably wouldn't work near as well as a dedicated external antenna with a coax hookup for your portable, if you were using a portable in the aircraft to begin with. I keep a aviation band portable in my survival vest (don't you?), and adding another one would be simple enough so parties could keep in contact while in the bush.

But for walking around, the rubber-duck antennas that come standard on portable radios are really the weak link. Hooking our 5w VHF handhelds to inexpensive external antennas easily triples the range. We can talk to each other from 20 miles away with a large mountain betweens us, even in digital mode, which is not as powerful as the regular FM mode.

For our mission explained in the first post, VHF radios have proven to be a good solution. They're not perfect, but they're inexpensive and have plenty of range for day-trips. They also work well for keeping in contact in town, since cell phones are no longer part of our lives. One thing which would make them infinitely better is to put a repeater at the house...then the poor antennas wouldn't be an issue, as all traffic would be going through a 50w repeater which has a proper antenna to begin with. Still thinking about that one.

Interesting, let us know if it works, would be handy to have some more grunt in the handheld.

I imagine life without a cell phone is pretty damn peaceful!

There's two things being discussed here regarding that gizmo...capacitive coupling of the red wire to the transmitter in/out stage, and the red 1/4 electrical wavelength wire.

For years something similar was available for cell phones that claimed (and maybe did) add some signal range. As noted the gizmo is moved around on the radio body while transmitting until the imbedded gizmo circuit senses the most RF energy on transmit and it's stuck there.

However...for a few cents you can have the same effect by attaching a 1/4 electrical wavelength piece of wire externally to the twist on antenna mount which is effectively a radio "ground point". It can also be attached to a metal clip or screw that's attached to the radio case. To get close to the wire length in feet divide 234 by average hand held 2M ham band radio frequency in Mhz, or 234/148Mhz ~19". Aircraft use 234/126Mhz ~ 22.25". With an SWR meter it can be adjusted up or down but that's close. A ring connector crimped to the wire can be sized to fit under the typical twist-on BNC antenna connector or body screw.

What you end up with is a 1/2 wave vertical dipole...the rubber antenna pointing up (1/4), and the wire hanging down(1/4). It has a low angle of radiation and is sometimes better. It's usually more efficient than the electrically shortened single rubber ducky antenna aircraft and ham units come with. With that setup your hand and body capacitively couple to the radio body like the gizmo and become the other unoptimized half of the antenna just like a random length wire would.

Longer than supplied vertical replacement antennas are available (http://www.americanradiosupply.com/handheld-antennas/) which can help improve signal strength as well. What comes with the radio at first is a flexible tough compromise that can be improved upon for aircraft and ham handhelds.

Gary

An update to this thread:

2m ham radios have proved to work very well for what we needed. By using a digital signal that includes GPS, I can see the bearing and distance to my wife...super handy when I think she's upstream and she's positive she's downstream of me, with a jungle of willows between us.

Putting a repeater at the house and erecting a tall external antenna has increased the range dramatically, without a huge cost and no subscription fee. There are very few spots within a 20 mile radius that are out of reach of the house repeater. As a bonus I can program SAR frequencies into my home and mobile radios, giving me 65w and a proper antenna instead of being dependent on a 5w handheld.

My mobile radio can be set up as a cross band repeater so two people on 5w handhelds can use the vehicle as a 50w repeater (with the HUGE advantage of a proper antenna). If the vehicle is parked at a high-point that can be especially useful. The same system could easily be set up at a backcountry airstrip. A radio, coax and antenna only weighs a couple pounds, so battery life is the only real issue. I can see using a Odyssey battery and a solar panel to save the ships battery if you were planning on using the rig more than one or two days. If not, know how to hand-prop your bird.

I can hit half a dozen repeaters from the house and reach communities 200 miles away via linked repeaters. I occasionally get on the air to test my transmission strength or check in on a net, but I haven't found small-talking to strangers to be real interesting. I recently listened to an old-timer go on for several minutes about his need to buy a pan so he could make cornmeal mush for breakfast. It was funny as hell, but I don't think it was meant to be.

Few things I've learned:

Antenna's are everything, and you pretty much need an antenna analyzer to know what's happening with your signal.

Cheap radios (Boefang, etc.) cost about as much as an after-market antenna for a decent radio, and are much less useful.

Unlike with flight school, most of what you have to learn to get a ham license is of no actual value unless you want to build your own electronics. If all you want to do is have access to better radios and a repeater network it's much easier to memorize the questions and answers and then go back and study the aspects of radio that actually interest you.

All in all it has not been a turn-key solution like a couple sat phones, but it has worked very well and getting things to work just right has been really fun. It hasn't cost much in the big scheme of things, even buying highish-end radios. And I finally learned how to solder. Who'd of guessed?

I used the UV-5R Pro ham radio and it's a great radio for the price. They are not Kenwood but neither is the price. Once I got out the microscope to read the instruction book, I moved on to downloading the Chirp software into my computer to program them only to find that using it isn't for the faint of heart, the impatient or the first-time user.

Once I got it figured out, programming these radios can be done in your sleep! User information on the Nrcadio website is quite satisfactory. Be aware that through Chirp, you can "expand" the frequency range of these radios from 1Mhz to 1000mhz but they will only actually operate between 131.000Mhz and 545.955 MHz. The frequency indicator on the face will read beyond these limits but outside the aforementioned operating limits, the transmitter/receiver is outside of their operating ranges. I like these radios because I also wanted to use them as low band scanners as well as communicators. You can't find 2 handheld scanners with the plethora of extras that these came with for under $85.00.

I haven't had a chance to try the range on them yet but if I'm not back here in 2 weeks complaining about them, you'll know they're good.