ravi wrote:If you are nieve enough to lend your plane out I guess you deserve the repercussions.

One of the things I love most about aviation is that most of the people involved are very generous and giving. If it wasn't for the many people in my life who have shared their knowledge, experience and even their aircraft with me, I wouldn't be where I am today. That's not to say you should run out and loan your airplane to the first person you see. Obviously, you have to know who you are letting fly your baby. I my case those people are way more important to me than the beautiful assembly of sheet metal and rivets I call a Cessna 140. Not only that, but they are experienced an exercise good judgment. Ultimately, airplanes are expendable, especially when they are trying to kill you. (ie. engine failure.) That's why all I worry about when a friend of mine is out flying my airplane, is their health and safety. If they go out and wreck my airplane, fine, as long as their OK in the end. I'll worry about all of the other BS later. I guess I am just a little "nieve."

-Matt

This is one time I'm grateful for the limitations in my insurance policy. Other pilots aren't covered on my policy unless they have 500 TT, are insturment rated and have 50 in type. If these restrictions weren't already written into the policy, I'd be tempted to ask the insurance co to write them in (for a discount? dream on!) just so I can politely refuse well-intentioned folks who ask to borrow my pride and joy.

I personally am not comfortable asking to borrow someone else's airplane because I've owned one for 20 years and know the risks, costs and burdens of ownership. As MTV points out, there are too many things that can go wrong, other than crashing. I'd rather not put the friendship at risk. For the same reasons, I don't loan my airplane or take a partner. I want an airplane in good working order, not an insurance claim, a top overhaul or broken interior plastic.

OTOH, I gladly take friends and family along on trips and don't ask them to contribute to the cost of gas or anything else. I figure that flying is my gig and I've already decided to pay for it. I'm just glad to have share the adventure. Most of the time they buy dinner or something else that usually doesn't cover gas. That's ok by me. Sometimes, though, I have to talk them out of paying too much, both for regulatory reasons and because I don't want them to feel discouraged from going the next time.

CAVU

As I understand it, if your airplane is sitting on the ground with the engine off and it is being pushed into a hangar and an aileron wacks a post and it is damaged, you have an accident (not an incident) and it must reported.

An accident occurs anytime there is damage to a flying surface.

Skystrider wrote:As I understand it, if your airplane is sitting on the ground with the engine off and it is being pushed into a hangar and an aileron wacks a post and it is damaged, you have an accident (not an incident) and it must reported.

An accident occurs anytime there is damage to a flying surface.

It's definitely not an NTSB reportable accident, and my understanding is the FAA uses the same definitions.

§ 830.2 Definitions.
As used in this part the following words or phrases are defined as follows:

Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.

Incident means an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.

ShamuPilot,

I was relating an experience I had with the FAA. They classified it an "accident" instead of an "incident" because the aileron got bent on one corner. Although from the rules you quoted it sure doesn't look like it should have been classified as anything.

The only reason it even came up was because the mechanic happend to be talking to an FAA guy and about some other repairs that were being done (how far apart rivets should be placed!) and mentioned the aileron. The FAA guy was real nice but insisted it was an "accident". It never became a big deal and everything was quickly settled but it did surprise me.

Now how you classify substantail damage when the plane accidently gets started with no one on board and crashes would be a real good question! Under the rules it was not a real aircraft accident. Wonder what happens when the plane gets off the ground by itself and then crashes?

Apparently that has happened once or twice.

Skystrider wrote: .....................
Now how you classify substantail damage when the plane accidently gets started with no one on board and crashes would be a real good question! Under the rules it was not a real aircraft accident. Wonder what happens when the plane gets off the ground by itself and then crashes?
Apparently that has happened once or twice.

If it happened to my airplane I'd call it a mystery. Cuz anytime the FAA is involved, "Don't know what you're talking about,I wasn't even at the airport today" is the standard answer. This works better than "whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?" (my old standard reply)

Bart "I didn't do it" Simpson

Skystrider wrote:ShamuPilot,

I was relating an experience I had with the FAA. They classified it an "accident" instead of an "incident" because the aileron got bent on one corner. Although from the rules you quoted it sure doesn't look like it should have been classified as anything.

The only reason it even came up was because the mechanic happend to be talking to an FAA guy and about some other repairs that were being done (how far apart rivets should be placed!) and mentioned the aileron. The FAA guy was real nice but insisted it was an "accident". It never became a big deal and everything was quickly settled but it did surprise me.

Sounds to me like your kinder, friendlier, FAA man was bored and decided to fill his time with your slightly bent airplane. What would be interesting is whether or not it shows up in the accident database?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp

If it is, who does it show as the PIC? If that's you, then you have an aircraft accident on your record, and a BS one at that. I'd be surprised if your name is on it, but if it is....does your insurance company know you have an accident on your record?

The FAA is getting real bored these days, which is why sooner or later I'll have to paint my prop.

Good luck.
-Matt