Hartzell M-Drive Starters are junk. At least on big Continentals.

I was excited to replace the heavy Energizer starter on my IO520D powered C185 with a much lighter, lower amp draw, Hartzell M-Drive starter, which I did. On my trip from TX to CA we landed at ELOY AZ for fuel and a pee break. We were on the ground 15 to 20 minutes which let everything under the cowling heat soak. Went to crank the engine and all I got was a grinding noise from the starter. Tried it a second time and all I got was grinding again, but this time I did not let off on the key and just let her grind. Eventually the prop started to swing amidst the grinding sound and she started.

We flew on to San Diego where I had a new Hartzell M-Drive overnighted. Installed it, cold started fine and we flew on to Madera. Next day cold started fine and we flew on to Bishop. Next day cold started fine and we flew on to Texas. Stopped for fuel and a break in NM, 185 faced into a 25kt wind, on the ground for 30 minutes, warm started fine. Landed at home, shut down to open the hangar, maybe two minutes hot started fine.

Not trusting the Hartzell M-Drive starter, and with a trip from TX to MT this Sunday I figured I'd better test the starter under heat soak conditions. Cold started fine, flew over to Lockhart to my mechanic. Taxied to his shop. Shut down. And restarted immediately just fine. Shut down, let her sit for 10 minutes. Started fine. Shut down, let her sit for 20 minutes, cranked the engine and got nothing but grinding from the starter. Let her sit for 30 minutes, when I went to start the engine got a split second grind and then the starter worked fine (I thought) and the engine started. My mechanic informed me that from the outside the plane even once the propellor turned he could continue to hear the grinding noise from the starter, I couldn't hear it from inside.

Next morning (yesterday), I pulled the Hartzell M-Drive and put the old Energizer back on (thank heavens I hung onto it). Cold started fine. Took off, flew the plane around till CHTs and Oil temp was normal, landed and took her back to the hangar. Shut down, waited 20 minutes, started just fine. I expected this as the Energizer is not a gear reduction starter so nothing to grind inside. It does draw significantly more amps then the Hartzell M-Drive so that ruled out any kind of wiring or battery heat soak problem which might have affected the Hartzell (this was a long shot guess at what might be causing the problem). Besides, the wiring, the battery, and all the contactors are new.

While we were in CA, my A&P/IA contacted Hartzell and talked with one of their service guys (before the second starter problems). Although he hadn't heard of this problem he volunteered to my A&P/IA that especially because I fly this plane into the backcountry, that I not use any of the light-weight starters including theirs, instead stick with the Energizer because it's more reliable. That is directly from Hartzell!

At this point I want to give a shout-out to Aircraft Spruce. Just got off the phone with them and they are taking both starters back. That is great customer service. Maybe Hartzell can figure out why heat soaking these starters causes them to fail. I hope so. But until they do the Energizer stays on my engine.

Thanks for the review.
Hartzell systems makes complete junk. It is very sad. I have had hartzell systems overhauled magnetos not even pass a magneto check on the first run. I have had starters last only a few flights alternators die within less then a hundred hours. Lycoming sadly used them for overhauling accessories on some of their overhauled engines. What a mechanic nightmare!!
I just installed a plane power alternator and would not have made the purchase if i would have known hartzell systems owned them.

Plane Power Alternators are a f#€ig¥ rip-off. 280 TT (MTBF,) nuff said.

They stuffed a prop shop I was dealing with on a top prop conversion for a 206. He asked them (I had a copy of the fax he sent) if it was OK on my serial #. They said yes and supplied STC paperwork. Prop shows up, A&P looks at STC. My serial # range was not stated. Called Hartzell, couldn't answer for it so someone called back in 30 minutes. That person said yep we screwed up. You can't use that prop. But hey you're in Alaska just get a field approval!!!!! Yeah right, FA for a product that already exists in the correct form. Hartzell stuck the dealer with the freight from Montana to Alaska both ways.

I will never knowingly buy their products.

Barnstormer-

I'm sorry to hear of your problems, I was hoping to replace my old, heavy starter as well!

gunny

I had a similar experience with a Hartzell M-Drive. Started making the same grinding sound after about 25 hours of service. Mine crapped out in McCall, Idaho. Thankfully not at a backcountry strip. Hartzell tried to blame it on my stater adapter. I used a loaner stock starter for the next 15 hrs and then installed a Sky-Tec ST-5. I've had no issues for the last 50 hours. Spruce took the Hartzell back no questions asked. I like the weight savings but I'm not totally convinced of the reliability yet.

Chris

I have a TCM energizer on my 180. But doesn't Hartzell make the Energizer now or at least market it?

I had the exact same experience. Tried two of them then gave up and put the old one back on, which has been good for 700 hours. So no problem with the starter adapter which is what they were trying to blame.

Thanks for the heads up Barnstormer, from all accounts I'll be sticking with my old tried and true Energizer as well.

My Sky Tec on my O-360 Lycoming is now about 10 1/2 years old, and it has been trouble free. When the engine was originally rebuilt, a Lamar was installed. On the fourth (yeah, 4th) attempted start after the engine was installed, there was a kickback, and one of the mounting ears broke and the starter jammed. Fortunately it did no damage to the flywheel ring. In a day, the new Sky Tec was installed.

Since then, Sky Tec has come out with essentially 2 new versions, an ultra light weight version and a self-resetting anti-kickback version. The older version that I have has an anti-kickback feature, but it was designed to break if there was a kickback instead of breaking teeth on the ring gear. If that happened, the starter had to be pulled and the anti-kickback parts replaced for about $100 plus labor. The new one resets itself instead of requiring replacement parts. If I were choosing, that would be the starter I'd go for now, because although I've not yet broken the anti-kickback parts in mine, my engine has kicked back during a number of starts--fairly common with Lycoming 4s.

I believe that the Lamar was bought by and is the Hartzell--I am pretty sure but not positive of that, but if so, I wouldn't recommend it, unless they've made significant changes, based on that one experience and my engine builder's decision not to buy any more of them. As it turned out, he's had several fail, one before mine and a couple afterwards.

Cary

Im not so sure I would be so quick to lump the SkyTec in with that Junk-Drive. Many Skytecs out there problem free and I love mine.

Happy to report that on my trip up here to Montana the old heavy iron Energizer starter worked flawlessly. Lesson learned.

Are you sure that isn't your starter adapter slipping?
RP

drp1 wrote:Are you sure that isn't your starter adapter slipping?
RP

Yep, that was the first place my thoughts went as well when I first heard the noise. But it's definitely a gear on gear grinding noise, not spring slippage. And there is nothing in the adapter that could make that noise. My IA confirmed this and the Hartzell tech agreed.