Backstory: I am a 22 year old A&P and have bought a 172f that has been sitting on the ramp for a few years. In the process of inspecting the airplane I have found that the rear spars have some issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately a rear spar replacement is something that I cannot legally do without having a Cessna wing jig and an inspection authorization (roughly a year and a half before I can test for that certification).

I am located in Auburn, AL and looking for recommendations on an airframe repair shop with a Cessna wing jig that can do the repair somewhere here in the Southeast. I have a way to transport the wings safely and am hoping to find someone that may be willing to allow me to work alongside them on the repair.

Look up Dean Showalter at http://airplaneownermaintenance.com/. He has contacts all over the south that do this type of work.

Del Lehmann at Mountain Airframe LLC. Mena AR.

Where's the reg that states you can't legally do it?
John

Hardtailjohn,

Cessna repair manual states that a repair of that magnitude must be done in a Cessna wing jig to ensure wing twist remains correct.

Also, the regs classify it as a major repair.

Part 43 appendix A
(b) Major repairs -

(1) Airframe major repairs. Repairs to the following parts of an airframe and repairs of the following types, involving the strengthening, reinforcing, splicing, and manufacturing of primary structural members or their replacement, when replacement is by fabrication such as riveting or welding, are airframe major repairs.

(i) Box beams.

(ii) Monocoque or semimonocoque wings or control surfaces.

(iii) Wing stringers or chord members.

(iv) Spars.

(v) Spar flanges.

(vi) Members of truss-type beams.

(vii) Thin sheet webs of beams.

(viii) Keel and chine members of boat hulls or floats.

(ix) Corrugated sheet compression members which act as flange material of wings or tail surfaces.

(x) Wing main ribs and compression members.

(xi) Wing or tail surface brace struts.

(xii) Engine mounts.

(xiii) Fuselage longerons.

(xiv) Members of the side truss, horizontal truss, or bulkheads.

(xv) Main seat support braces and brackets.

(xvi) Landing gear brace struts.

(xvii) Axles.

(xviii) Wheels.

(xix) Skis, and ski pedestals.

(xx) Parts of the control system such as control columns, pedals, shafts, brackets, or horns.

(xxi) Repairs involving the substitution of material.

(xxii) The repair of damaged areas in metal or plywood stressed covering exceeding six inches in any direction.

(xxiii) The repair of portions of skin sheets by making additional seams.

(xxiv) The splicing of skin sheets.

(xxv) The repair of three or more adjacent wing or control surface ribs or the leading edge of wings and control surfaces, between such adjacent ribs.

(xxvi) Repair of fabric covering involving an area greater than that required to repair two adjacent ribs.

(xxvii) Replacement of fabric on fabric covered parts such as wings, fuselages, stabilizers, and control surfaces.

(xxviii) Repairing, including rebottoming, of removable or integral fuel tanks and oil tanks.

Pinecone wrote:Del Lehmann at Mountain Airframe LLC. Mena AR.

X2 You won't go wrong with Del.

UChee,

As an AP, you are legally allowed to perform major repairs and modifications, fill out the logs and complete a form 337, signing block 6. You find an IA to inspect your work and sign block 7. Inspection Authorization is just that, the authorization to inspect, and return to service.

UcheeCreekAviator wrote:Hardtailjohn,

Cessna repair manual states that a repair of that magnitude must be done in a Cessna wing jig to ensure wing twist remains correct.

Really?

It's not a hard repair.

UcheeCreekAviator wrote:Hardtailjohn,

Cessna repair manual states that a repair of that magnitude must be done in a Cessna wing jig to ensure wing twist remains correct.

Also, the regs classify it as a major repair.

You don't need to quote me AC43 or Cessna's manual....I've been doing this stuff for over 35 years....over 30 of it as an IA, and on a repair station, signing off majors for the years before that. You can perform the repair as an A&P, in fact you can perform the repair as a non-licensed individual, if you can get someone to supervise your work. Any IA can sign off the 337 with an inspection. As far as a wing jig, it's not rocket science and there's lots of them in the field at small shops all over. It's a fixture to hold alignment.
Unfortunately, you weren't exposed to this stuff when getting your A&P, and I think that's a real shame, albeit a common trend anymore. Less focus on fixing and building parts, and more focus on parts replacement. If you were closer, I'd be glad to show you what you CAN do!
John

Del was commenting on another forum that he’s hiring. If the OP wants to add this kind of experience to his resume, then going to work for Del, and fixing his own airplane after hours might work. Probably OK to ask Del a few technical questions regarding your own evening project while at work, after all, he’s looking for someone to train.

soaringhiggy wrote:Look up Dean Showalter at http://airplaneownermaintenance.com/. He has contacts all over the south that do this type of work.

Total thread drift and of zero useful information, but we ended up in one of Dean's podcasts this spring. While ferrying the Champ up from Florida we landed at Shenandoah Valley Regional Airport for fuel. Apparently not many champs land there. Long story short he had a bunch of hours in a champ years ago and interviewed us, took a bunch of photos and chatted us up for the better part of 30 minutes. Seems like a great guy and his shop was immaculate.

Pete

UcheeCreekAviator wrote:Backstory: I am a 22 year old A&P and have bought a 172f that has been sitting on the ramp for a few years. In the process of inspecting the airplane I have found that the rear spars have some issues that need to be addressed. Unfortunately a rear spar replacement is something that I cannot legally do without having a Cessna wing jig and an inspection authorization (roughly a year and a half before I can test for that certification).

I am located in Auburn, AL and looking for recommendations on an airframe repair shop with a Cessna wing jig that can do the repair somewhere here in the Southeast. I have a way to transport the wings safely and am hoping to find someone that may be willing to allow me to work alongside them on the repair.

Here is another shop with a jig: http://flyingtrepair.com/

If I was 22 and had the project that you are talking about, I would see whatever shop would let me bring my wings, spend a week or so learning and see if they would take you under their wing....no pun intended.



Tim

Why not buy a set of serviceable wings, they are all over the place for about $3k and up a wing. Even with your own labor helping a shop that has the skills, I’d bet you’ll still come out on top?

Also an a&p, just learned that many things are cheaper to replace than fix....

electricsnail wrote:Even with your own labor helping a shop that has the skills, I’d bet you’ll still come out on top?

Sometimes it is not about the money, more about the education.

Thanks to all of you guys that actually gave helpful responses!

Im not interested in replacing the wings. I want to fix them myself simply for the educational experience.

Im aware that I can have an IA sign of the work that I perform, but currently I don't have a relationship with one that is willing to help me. My boss who is an IA has not been very helpful at all.

Also, please give me a break guys. Ive been out of A&P school just over a year and I'm definitely still learning every single day. We didn't have a class on Cessna wing rebuilding in the curriculum. I came to this forum to attempt to gain some knowledge and get advice from some people with more experience than I have.

Doing wings is a bit of an art. Some folks do it quite well with or without jigs. It is absolutely a great idea to participate with somebody that actually knows what they are doing. Even if it costs a bit more, the education is priceless. There is a trick to closing them that needs to be learned. Planning the entire process is an experience based procedure, not covered by books or schools. We did lots of wings in our shop, from Small one to Twin Otters. Each one had a different approach. Now in our shop we actually had a sign, "Labor $105 per hour, $140 if you watch." I would have recommended the repair station I used to own, which was in Georgia, but I have no idea of the work being put out now, I am 5 years out of date on it. One of the most experienced tin benders retired, 40 years of experience. You cannot reproduce what he knew.

The Cessna spar repair is based on several different kits, depending on what part you need to splice or repair. Any IA can sign it off. It is a major repair. However, any A&P can do the work. It is not magic, just something most folks never get experience doing, since most places will not attempt to take on that kind of job, due to lack of experience. Good tin benders are getting hard to find. That and most insurance companies are totaling out most aircraft with that kind of damage. So building up experience is getting hard to do.

Good luck on the project. If you get to do it, it will be rewarding.

UcheeCreekAviator wrote:
Also, please give me a break guys. Ive been out of A&P school just over a year and I'm definitely still learning every single day. We didn't have a class on Cessna wing rebuilding in the curriculum. I came to this forum to attempt to gain some knowledge and get advice from some people with more experience than I have.

I'm not trying to bust your chops...it's certainly not your fault they didn't teach you things. The problem with the schools anymore is that they are turning out a lot of "parts replacers", as my old instructor used to call them (geared more towards the airlines), and fail to teach the repair aspect.
It's great that you have that attitude that you're learning every day! I can still remember that point in my life and I was fortunate to surround myself with some fantastic craftsmen that taught me lots, and it still continues. Like I said, I wish you were closer, I'd be glad to show you what you can do!
Behindpropellers gave you some great advice! I'd be all over that if I was in your position too. At any rate, TRY to be involved with the repair if you can!! I've never regretted anything I learned, (mostly, haha) but have regretted passing up a thing or two in the past.
Good luck!
John

UcheeCreekAviator wrote:My boss who is an IA has not been very helpful at all.

Two things I’d like to comment on about this.

1). Anyone who has received on the job training as they worked their way to competency has an obligation to pay it forward by teaching the next generation.

2). Anyone who is asking for on the job training has an obligation to earn it. If your mentor isn’t sharing and teaching, ask what you can do to earn the privilege, and then do it. If it’s not agreeable to you, or can’t be earned, quit. You need a new mentor.

Of course, this is a huge simplification, but think about it. Boil it down and decide if you’re in the right place. Employers are desperate for keen young people to learn hands on work. If yours isn’t, then he’s not interested enough, or you’re not keen enough.

What is wrong with the rear spars? Do you have pictures and how are the rest of the wings, corrosion etc.? Wing repair is not as difficult as some would like to think it is. I see beautiful metal experimental planes built by people with no previous experience just by getting appropriate manuals, studying them and getting advice from people who have the experience. Check with the local home builders, maybe you have a EAA Chapter close. I have done major repairs on Cessna wings without jigs or at the least minimal shop constructed jigs. The dimensions are in the manual and if you are starting with strait wings it is easy with smart levels. Jigging a strait wing can be as simple as bolting angle iron to the wing and to a cement floor in the horizontal position. Practice riveting, these skins are thin and it is easy to get ugly dimples.

EXACTLY!!!!! ^^^^^
John