defintely open to building own plane. Might be more cost-effective for me to have a factory do it (Been thinking this on the KitFox)

yes, there would be places to fuel up en-route so if I have to deduce down to that, so be it. 800mi without having to stop would be ideal

landing strips would be remote grass strips, so I'd doubt any enhanced gear would be necessary

I say dog, but I really mean a true signifanct other. side by side is preferred as I'd have people fly with me from time to time and I'd prefer that setup.

I'm curious as to how much flying time you have, and in what aircraft?

a few hours in ride-alongs, a Rans Coyote I recall... grown up following planes my whole life, almost joined the Air Force out of high school. I''d get my PP in next year or so and get my hours up before I move to South America where an economical plane would be ideal to get to the rural places I'd need to get to. If I'm spending 10yrs down there and am driving 300-400mi+ twice a week that would get old, let alone the time and money cost of being on the road. Sprinkle in some trips that are 400+mi one way, it start to make sense that I look at flying, especially if as economical as a KitFox is. Alot of the destinations have grass strips since they are rural. My local airpark has a couple taildraggers to rent/do PP on, Carbon Cub SS.

Lot of good advice here that I don't need to repeat but sounds like you need to do some more home work first.

1) Exactly what fuels are available. A lot of areas outside the US only have 100LL (if thinking certified) at larger airports. There may not be any alternative places to refuel with 100LL, at least where you intend to fly. Also (if thinking Rotax) you did say Brazil and they are very heavy into ethanol, either straight or with a very high percentages. Will you be able to find auto fuel sources that have ethanol content within the limits set by Rotax (at this point at or < than 10%)? Do they (auto fuel sources) even supply our equivalent of "premium" auto fuel? If not you can still go Zipper low compression as Courierguy did but I still don't think I would use something with 50% ethanol in it.

2) If thinking homebuilt, are there any other hoops to jump through to be able to fly in Brazil such are further certification requirements. I don't know the South American rules but you are certainly going to need to know them thoroughly BEFORE you decide what plane you want. I'd search around for some Brazilian flying forums and see what they have to say

Good thing you are young and have time as you have many things to figure out before what type of plane is the issue.

WYflyer wrote:Lot of good advice here that I don't need to repeat but sounds like you need to do some more home work first.

1) Exactly what fuels are available. A lot of areas outside the US only have 100LL (if thinking certified) at larger airports. There may not be any alternative places to refuel with 100LL, at least where you intend to fly. Also (if thinking Rotax) you did say Brazil and they are very heavy into ethanol, either straight or with a very high percentages. Will you be able to find auto fuel sources that have ethanol content within the limits set by Rotax (at this point at or < than 10%)? Do they (auto fuel sources) even supply our equivalent of "premium" auto fuel? If not you can still go Zipper low compression as Courierguy did but I still don't think I would use something with 50% ethanol in it.

2) If thinking homebuilt, are there any other hoops to jump through to be able to fly in Brazil such are further certification requirements. I don't know the South American rules but you are certainly going to need to know them thoroughly BEFORE you decide what plane you want. I'd search around for some Brazilian flying forums and see what they have to say

Good thing you are young and have time as you have many things to figure out before what type of plane is the issue.

thanks WY - part of the homework is me asking and listening. I will be at OshKosh next year so I have time to gather the facts, inquire, etc etc. Your expertise and guidance only helps

Found this on first page of google.


"All gasoline sold in Brazil includes a blend of 18 to 27.5 percent ethanol."

With the advent of flex fuel vehicles, it appears that many places in Brazil now use even higher percentages of ethanol. Kind of complicates things huh?

bubbrubb21 wrote:a few hours in ride-alongs, a Rans Coyote I recall... grown up following planes my whole life, almost joined the Air Force out of high school. I''d get my PP in next year or so and get my hours up before I move to South America where an economical plane would be ideal to get to the rural places I'd need to get to. If I'm spending 10yrs down there and am driving 300-400mi+ twice a week that would get old, let alone the time and money cost of being on the road. Sprinkle in some trips that are 400+mi one way, it start to make sense that I look at flying, especially if as economical as a KitFox is. Alot of the destinations have grass strips since they are rural. My local airpark has a couple taildraggers to rent/do PP on, Carbon Cub SS.

If you think driving is slow and expensive, you've got a lot to learn about flying. Not saying you should't pursue it, but flying is probably not the transportation medium you currently envision.

My wife actually prefers tandem seating, she is more comfortable in the back, not rubbing shoulders and she also likes the fact she can see out of both sides of the airplane, not just the right side. Something to think about.

In your original post you said you wanted a taildragger and also weren't interested in low wing aircraft. Why is that?

It seems that you are needlessly limiting your choices and excluding a/c that might otherwise fit the mission you described. There's no reason you can't operate a low wing trike off of grass strips, I do it all the time in my Cherokee.

For $150,000, just buy two planes. 180+kitfox/Rans or 182+supercub or 210+kitfox.

$150k is a lot of money....

If I were you and I were set on only having 1 plane, I'd be choosing between a Scout or a 180/185, knowing that with each you're giving up something (sticks or side-by-side).

Edit: On second thought, just a maule and then just buy another maule.

Kansas Flyer wrote:In your original post you said you wanted a taildragger and also weren't interested in low wing aircraft. Why is that?

It seems that you are needlessly limiting your choices and excluding a/c that might otherwise fit the mission you described. There's no reason you can't operate a low wing trike off of grass strips, I do it all the time in my Cherokee.

I just dont like the look of low wings.. Cramps my style (air swag?). I want a plane that I get excited about flying and a stick does that for me. One person said it already but its an ego thing. Since I can't escape my ego, I gotta do what I gotta do. I think all signs point to KitFox pending particulars like mogas availability and LSA reqs in Brazil. I need to get 550mi at most on one leg. I said 800mi because I want to do majority round trip in an ideal world.

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Hammer wrote:

bubbrubb21 wrote:a few hours in ride-alongs, a Rans Coyote I recall... grown up following planes my whole life, almost joined the Air Force out of high school. I''d get my PP in next year or so and get my hours up before I move to South America where an economical plane would be ideal to get to the rural places I'd need to get to. If I'm spending 10yrs down there and am driving 300-400mi+ twice a week that would get old, let alone the time and money cost of being on the road. Sprinkle in some trips that are 400+mi one way, it start to make sense that I look at flying, especially if as economical as a KitFox is. Alot of the destinations have grass strips since they are rural. My local airpark has a couple taildraggers to rent/do PP on, Carbon Cub SS.

If you think driving is slow and expensive, you've got a lot to learn about flying. Not saying you should't pursue it, but flying is probably not the transportation medium you currently envision.

Well its more cost effective over a 10yr span. Not going to do a cost-benefit here but I will get some sort of aerial transport. Teleporter would be cool but I wouldnt get as many girls.

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bubbrubb21 wrote:

Kansas Flyer wrote:In your original post you said you wanted a taildragger and also weren't interested in low wing aircraft. Why is that?

It seems that you are needlessly limiting your choices and excluding a/c that might otherwise fit the mission you described. There's no reason you can't operate a low wing trike off of grass strips, I do it all the time in my Cherokee.

I just dont like the look of low wings.. Cramps my style (air swag?). I want a plane that I get excited about flying and a stick does that for me. One person said it already but its an ego thing. Since I can't escape my ego, I gotta do what I gotta do. I think all signs point to KitFox pending particulars like mogas availability and LSA reqs in Brazil. I need to get 550mi at most on one leg. I said 800mi because I want to do majority round trip in an ideal world.

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Well well, cramps your style/swag ego thing, ok. You probably wouldn't like a P-38 either, after all its a nose wheel, doesn't have a stick, tandem seating, and not a bitchin looking high wing, ok.

You come on here asking for advice and a lot of good guys pony up some great suggestions and then you come back with the "well, it cramps my style". So my suggestion to you, go get in touch with your ego and see how that helps you accomplish you mission and leave those of us who have better things to do than to play along with a troll's fantasy alone.

Rather than some of the great airplanes out there that could actually complete your "mission" maybe a Vespa or Prius with spinners may be more suitable. Sorry to be so blunt but your comment above has shown me and I would imagine many others here that any more advice to you is a waste of time.

G44 wrote:

bubbrubb21 wrote:

Kansas Flyer wrote:In your original post you said you wanted a taildragger and also weren't interested in low wing aircraft. Why is that?

It seems that you are needlessly limiting your choices and excluding a/c that might otherwise fit the mission you described. There's no reason you can't operate a low wing trike off of grass strips, I do it all the time in my Cherokee.

I just dont like the look of low wings.. Cramps my style (air swag?). I want a plane that I get excited about flying and a stick does that for me. One person said it already but its an ego thing. Since I can't escape my ego, I gotta do what I gotta do. I think all signs point to KitFox pending particulars like mogas availability and LSA reqs in Brazil. I need to get 550mi at most on one leg. I said 800mi because I want to do majority round trip in an ideal world.

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Well well, cramps your style/swag ego thing, ok. You probably wouldn't like a P-38 either, after all its a nose wheel, doesn't have a stick, tandem seating, and not a bitchin looking high wing, ok.

You come on here asking for advice and a lot of good guys pony up some great suggestions and then you come back with the "well, it cramps my style". So my suggestion to you, go get in touch with your ego and see how that helps you accomplish you mission and leave those of us who have better things to do than to play along with a troll's fantasy alone.

Rather than some of the great airplanes out there that could actually complete your "mission" maybe a Vespa or Prius with spinners may be more suitable. Sorry to be so blunt but your comment above has shown me and I would imagine many others here that any more advice to you is a waste of time.

Sure ok.

Not against it just had my prefernce for highwing as the thread states

If I want a different standard in performance ill probably have to go yoke, maybe tandem seating as some suggested with the Cessna. Didnt even know about Sportsman before this thread. Got the impression this would spiral a bit out of control with different views. Contrary is I don't ask and then I don't know

I do like the prius with spinners idea.

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bubbrubb21 wrote:I want a plane that I get excited about flying and a stick does that for me.

Not to poke at you or anything, but if you've got almost zero flying experience I don't know that you're really able to make this judgement.

I've flown a lot of different aircraft. Big to little, both fixed and rotary-wing, right hand and left hand sticks and yokes. I'll tell you that once you're over the initial learning curve, the last thing you're thinking about when you're flying one is the type of inceptor control you're using.

But that's just my experience - I've got no idea how that meshes with your style.

CamTom12 wrote:

bubbrubb21 wrote:I want a plane that I get excited about flying and a stick does that for me.

Not to poke at you or anything, but if you've got almost zero flying experience I don't know that you're really able to make this judgement.

I've flown a lot of different aircraft. Big to little, both fixed and rotary-wing, right hand and left hand sticks and yokes. I'll tell you that once you're over the initial learning curve, the last thing you're thinking about when you're flying one is the type of inceptor control you're using.

But that's just my experience - I've got no idea how that meshes with your style.

I agree completely Cam. And when it comes down to flying someplace for work or somewhere I have to get, I don't care about the stick/yoke. I want fast as I can get. I'd rather get there doing 150mph in a C180 type than 100 mph in a Kitfox type. That extra speed and range can make the difference when it come to weather and such...

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bubbrubb21 wrote:

Kansas Flyer wrote:In your original post you said you wanted a taildragger and also weren't interested in low wing aircraft. Why is that?

It seems that you are needlessly limiting your choices and excluding a/c that might otherwise fit the mission you described. There's no reason you can't operate a low wing trike off of grass strips, I do it all the time in my Cherokee.

I just dont like the look of low wings.. Cramps my style (air swag?). I want a plane that I get excited about flying and a stick does that for me. One person said it already but its an ego thing. Since I can't escape my ego, I gotta do what I gotta do. I think all signs point to KitFox pending particulars like mogas availability and LSA reqs in Brazil. I need to get 550mi at most on one leg. I said 800mi because I want to do majority round trip in an ideal world.

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Fair enough. I personally think taildraggers look "cooler" and hope to own and fly one someday. If you find one that fits the mission that's great, just don't exclude perfectly good airplanes that fit the mission because they have a nosewheel or a low wing. My ego see's myself driving a Corvette but I actually drive a pickup for reasons of practicality.

You mentioned that you don't have your license yet. As a low time pilot that just got my certificate a couple of months ago I can tell you that the process of learning to fly may change what you want so just be open to all possibilities.

Kansas Flyer wrote:....You mentioned that you don't have your license yet. As a low time pilot that just got my certificate a couple of months ago I can tell you that the process of learning to fly may change what you want so just be open to all possibilities.

What he said.
The airplane I thought I wanted when I first got interested in flying,
turned out to be about the last thing I wanted after I got my ticket.
FWIW it was a VW-powered nosedragger KR2.

I'd say just work on getting your private ticket,
and get some dual in a few different makes/models.
What you end up wanting or at least being able to live with might surprise you.
It might even turn out that you aren't as interested in flying as you thought.
I know a few people who thought they wanted to fly--
turns out after some instruction that they like the idea of flying, but not the reality of it.

Wish I had your bladder.

Maybe a Rans S20. Also if you did get the Rotax, LL100 works, just have to change the oil more often.