Backcountry Pilot • High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

829 mile range is not enough for an actual 800 mile trip. You need 900 mile range or more to contemplate that voyage...
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

" Or ditch both and get a 182 and have a boat load of fuel money left over."


Yup - I wholehearted agree!
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

lets say 700mi.. looking for something that can go far and be a HW-TD. I'd like something more than a 450mi range that most HW-TD are..
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

Troy Hamon wrote:829 mile range is not enough for an actual 800 mile trip. You need 900 mile range or more to contemplate that voyage...


That is with VFR reserves and 65% power. So it is possible under the right circumstances. But you are probably right, that’s cutting it pretty close.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

A Bearhawk can cruise at 130mph and 10hph. 700mi would take you a bit over 5 hrs. With aux tanks you have nearly 7 hours of fuel.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

robw56 wrote:180hp Glasair Sportsman taildragger. It’s a high wing, side by side, 158 mph cruise, 829 statue mile range, it has sticks. The 210hp ones are faster and still over 700 mile range. They can be found for sale well within your budget. There is one on TAP for 90k.

http://glasairaviation.com/sportsman-performance-spec/

Edit:looks like Gbflyer beat me to it



Well, there ya go! I stand corrected.

I too thought of a 185 but no sticks. The Husky would do it, I know because I have done it myself but not side by side. Looks like the Sportsman is a contender.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

180 or 185 no question nothing else can touch it. You have the budget for it so don’t waste your time with something else get the best plane you can get.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

Get a Kitfox Speedster (sounds like that what's you want anyway) and enjoy 4+ GPH fuel burns on mogas. i didn't hear any interest in a certified plane from you, so that eliminates some choices mentioned. You only need two seats, so the Bearhawk is overkill. When and if you want to fly 800 miles, carry a ferry/aux tank. No need to pack big fuel tanks around for all the shorter flights, lots of ways to do that. I've flown 13 hours in one day in a Kitfox, and many 8 hr + days in my two S-7's, in comfort, the biggest deal is get the correct Temperfoam type seat cushion. We all like to plan for the big trips, but the reality for most of us is lots of local flying. You want to go up for a half hour local sunset flight and burn 10 gallons of av gas or 2 gallons of mogas? There is a HUGE difference in operating costs between the Kitfox you want and the others mentioned. You can quite easily get your 'fox burn below 4 GPH. Out of all the others, and seeing you only need a two seater, the GlasStar would be my second choice, though the Kitfox will land and get off a lot shorter then it will.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

courierguy wrote:Get a Kitfox Speedster (sounds like that what's you want anyway) and enjoy 4+ GPH fuel burns on mogas. i didn't hear any interest in a certified plane from you, so that eliminates some choices mentioned. You only need two seats, so the Bearhawk is overkill. When and if you want to fly 800 miles, carry a ferry/aux tank. No need to pack big fuel tanks around for all the shorter flights, lots of ways to do that. I've flown 13 hours in one day in a Kitfox, and many 8 hr + days in my two S-7's, in comfort, the biggest deal is get the correct Temperfoam type seat cushion. We all like to plan for the big trips, but the reality for most of us is lots of local flying. You want to go up for a half hour local sunset flight and burn 10 gallons of av gas or 2 gallons of mogas? There is a HUGE difference in operating costs between the Kitfox you want and the others mentioned. You can quite easily get your 'fox burn below 4 GPH. Out of all the others, and seeing you only need a two seater, the GlasStar would be my second choice, though the Kitfox will land and get off a lot shorter then it will.


I like the sound of that.. everything past the KitFox seems like overkill for me.. don;t need 4 seats, don't really care for a yoke, preference for side-by-side seating, operating costs, initial costs, etc. Just need to buzz around within a 500mi radius.

Is Mogas readily available in South America?
Last edited by bubbrubb21 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:31 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

courierguy wrote:Get a Kitfox Speedster (sounds like that what's you want anyway) and enjoy 4+ GPH fuel burns on mogas. i didn't hear any interest in a certified plane from you, so that eliminates some choices mentioned. You only need two seats, so the Bearhawk is overkill. When and if you want to fly 800 miles, carry a ferry/aux tank. No need to pack big fuel tanks around for all the shorter flights, lots of ways to do that. I've flown 13 hours in one day in a Kitfox, and many 8 hr + days in my two S-7's, in comfort, the biggest deal is get the correct Temperfoam type seat cushion. We all like to plan for the big trips, but the reality for most of us is lots of local flying. You want to go up for a half hour local sunset flight and burn 10 gallons of av gas or 2 gallons of mogas? There is a HUGE difference in operating costs between the Kitfox you want and the others mentioned. You can quite easily get your 'fox burn below 4 GPH. Out of all the others, and seeing you only need a two seater, the GlasStar would be my second choice, though the Kitfox will land and get off a lot shorter then it will.
There's a ton of smarts in CG's post. I'd add too though that after learning and practicing proper procedures for an approach to an uncontrolled field those quick fuel stops are really not so bad. I've flown ten hour days with two stops and felt reasonably well at the end. Good flight planning with frequent stops is actually more fun anyway. On the other hand flight into back country where fuel is not available is of course another kettle of fish. CG has that rubber gas can business down pretty good. Look at his other posts.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

bubbrubb21 wrote:
courierguy wrote:Get a Kitfox Speedster (sounds like that what's you want anyway) and enjoy 4+ GPH fuel burns on mogas. i didn't hear any interest in a certified plane from you, so that eliminates some choices mentioned. You only need two seats, so the Bearhawk is overkill. When and if you want to fly 800 miles, carry a ferry/aux tank. No need to pack big fuel tanks around for all the shorter flights, lots of ways to do that. I've flown 13 hours in one day in a Kitfox, and many 8 hr + days in my two S-7's, in comfort, the biggest deal is get the correct Temperfoam type seat cushion. We all like to plan for the big trips, but the reality for most of us is lots of local flying. You want to go up for a half hour local sunset flight and burn 10 gallons of av gas or 2 gallons of mogas? There is a HUGE difference in operating costs between the Kitfox you want and the others mentioned. You can quite easily get your 'fox burn below 4 GPH. Out of all the others, and seeing you only need a two seater, the GlasStar would be my second choice, though the Kitfox will land and get off a lot shorter then it will.


What kind of range would the aux tank give? I like the sound of that.. everything past the KitFox seems like overkill for me.. don;t need 4 seats, don't really care for a yoke, preference for side-by-side seating, operating costs, initial costs, etc. Just need to buzz around within a 500mi radius.

Is Mogas readily available in South America?


The last time I was in SA I rode the buses, but i'd imagine mo gas is easier to get then av gas, Jet A probably easier? Don't know, but hey they drive cars down there right? Goggle different sites for flexible fuel bladders, Nauta is the brand I have, Turtle Pac is another, marine types are fine also. I just would not design the entire plane around the very occasional 800 mile flight, get the plane for the vast majority of what your flying will be.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

yup agreed.. my longest day would be a 400mi flight, couple hours on the ground, then 400miles back. 800mi was my thinking in that I wouldn't have to re-fuel. Would be landing in some obscure places without infrastructure.

Your input is what I was hoping to hear.. still open to other ideas but the answers I was looking for more or less on the KitFox. It's in the wheelhouse for what I need at a very good price, etc.

what are advantages of going certified plane?
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

Even though I have a 185 now, I'd want my T210 with RSTOL back if I was switching to the mission you describe. If your runways are semi-improved, a tricycle is fine. Yolk vs. Stick? For long legs you'll want an autopilot. Your hand will be navigating your GPS to verify the flight is proceeding according to plan. Other hand on your sandwich.

This mission calls for a 182, 177, or 210. Your self image is the only thing calling for a taildragger and a stick. Good advice if the mission is as described, just not what you want to hear.

Experimental vs. certified? You can fix an experimental yourself, subject to certain standards, if you know how, however you see fit. A certified airplane requires a certified mechanic, but he may have the parts you need, will know how to diagnose and fix nearly any GA aircraft.
Last edited by Pinecone on Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

An RV-7 does this mission all day long...

I have a 7a and love the plane. The only reason mine isn't a taildragger is x-winds...

Jim
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

jaudette wrote:An RV-7 does this mission all day long...

I have a 7a and love the plane. The only reason mine isn't a taildragger is x-winds...

Jim


thanks Jim. I'd assume crosswinds being an significant issue in Denver being high up and on a plateau? I dont think the area I;m flying in would have similar crosswinds of Denver
Last edited by bubbrubb21 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

There’s a Bearhawk on Barnstormers, a lot more airplane than a Kitfox and in your budget.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

bubbrubb21 wrote:What are your suggestions on a HW-TD that can go as fast and far as possible?

I;m not looking for STOL capabilites per se as I'll be landing at remote grass strips (3,000ft elevation max or so) rather than creek beds or high mountains. I'd like to get 800mi or so on a tank (the more the better). Going 800mi would be the rare trip, 400mi round trip max would be the much more common trip for me. I;d be flying around the plains of Southern Brazil... gaucho country

Also, I want the 2 -person sitting up front like the KitFox has, I like the idea of having the significant other by my side (dog haha). The Kitfox has caught my eye as it seems very economical.. I;m a young guy so some of the higher-end stuff is outside my price range (wants vs needs). I just need to get to point A to point B and want to enjoy doing it, hence HW-TD. Don;t have any interest in the low wing stuff. Once my days are done flying this mission profile I'd return home and head for the high mountains from which I'd then transition to the STOL stuff.. oh, and it must be a stick, no yoke! ..sorry Maulers :)

lets make it a budget of $150,000 (ok lets say 200,000). As I understand I could get the Speedster factory-built in or around 150k (premium), build myself for 70k or so (minus labor of course)

any suggestions outside of a KitFox? Open to both kit planes or otherwise..

thank you!


You're going to have to give something up, because that airplane doesn't exist.

Anything in the certified world that comes close to that are going to have yokes instead of sticks. Cessna's, maule's, etc...

In the experimental world, you have more options, but then again, the range you want is really far outside of what normal people desire. You would be building a flying gas-can.

But hey, if that's what you want, a 4-place bearhawk kit, with a custom mounted 50 gallon tank where the rear seat goes and some transfer pumps will do everything you want, but like I said, flying gas-can.

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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

Bede 4 is an option. Wikipedia quotes 198 mph cruise and 900 mile range. Side by side taildragger, stick control. Not the best short or off airport performer, but that's the compromise.

This isn't a recommendation. I flew in one once, and wasn't comfortable. Maybe if I built it myself. I saw on their website that they've had a wing design change.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

Are you open to building your own plane or are you looking for something already finished?

A Rans S-20 with the metal wings may fit your mission profile nicely. 42 gallons of fuel and rotax economy would make for great endurance.
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Re: High-Wing Taildragger that can go fast(er) and far(ther)

The mission has to be defined more precisely than the OP has indicated. In the 800 mile loops (I'm understanding it is there and back, so 400 each way), is fuel available anywhere in enroute to the destination that would mitigate the 800 mile non-fueling? Also, what conditions are the landing zones? If they are all well groomed grass at worst then landing gear structure is less of a priority. If is is rough fields, then more substantial main gear designs are necessary to absorb the bumps and still fly back out. Knowing this will knock out some considerations and narrow the field of candidates.

Also, dogs don't care if they are beside you or behind you (tandem seating), but wives and girlfriends do. So IF it is really just going to be the dog, tandem would open up more options.
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