NZMaule wrote:Awesome Vid!! Gotta love the canoe pod!!

X2!!

Terry wrote:Awesome vids Kevin!
He is how us mere mortals do it, just for fun.

Really nice!! It's really great to see the Oregon crew getting after it!

BCP is damn cool. Oregon crew, Sierra flyers, Ohio BP, Colorado crew, Nevada gang, who am I missing that has a large contingent of flyers?

What a fantastic video - international airport is right!

HAHA! And they still rode home with you Thanks for sharing.

Don't know where you were for sure but something courier guy pointed out to me: The east bank of the Snake south of where the Blackfoot river joins is reservation. Just something to think about. Remember a couple years back a tribe confiscated some guys plane...did he ever get it back?

Good stuff, UM. Looks like a lot of fun! Loved the blooper roll at the end.

whee wrote:Remember a couple years back a tribe confiscated some guys plane...did he ever get it back?

Not sure about that. Stayed clear of the tribal land.......

Saw a few jet boats on the river, and one little boat going upstream with an old Merc outboard. If the river flows at 5 mph, his top speed was 5.1, brutally slow to watch.

whee wrote:HAHA! And they still rode home with you ?

Well, they figured it was me, the guy with the Merc, or swim..... I won, but not by much.

UtahMaule wrote:https://vimeo.com/48910783

Somebody got 35's........
Nice flying Rob. That Maule sure looks good with its nose up in the air.

For water assisted takeoffs is there a optimum attitude to have the plane at? Tail high, tail low?

This guy I know got himself into a situation where he ran out of beach and ended up using some water to get in the air. It was his first experience with water so he kept the plane at his typical short field attitude (tw just off the ground) which worked. He said it was pretty exciting and he isn't interested in doing it again anytime soon but he wants to know what the proper technique is.

No reason for it, just like taxiing around holding the tail up in the air just long enough to strike a prop. but 9 times the square root of the tire pressure is hydroplaning speed, anything below is sinking or fwd flipping speed. I've never landed on water in a anything other than a seaplane and don't intend to, but the seaplane rules apply, look for logs, hazards, where are you departing into if you have to go missed. as far as the beach arrival, seems slope of the shore is critical, and if done wrong you get very wet, water in the cowling, fuel, who knows... I know several very good safe pilots that do ski but ski within reason, fun, but not as a necessity to access a good beach location.

The science makes it happen, the thing between the ears makes it all go to hell, fly safe, i say no skiing, land on the beach and have a great time having a picnic instead of salvaging your plane and calling for search and rescue.

whee wrote:For water assisted takeoffs is there a optimum attitude to have the plane at? Tail high, tail low?

This guy I know got himself into a situation where he ran out of beach and ended up using some water to get in the air. It was his first experience with water so he kept the plane at his typical short field attitude (tw just off the ground) which worked. He said it was pretty exciting and he isn't interested in doing it again anytime soon but he wants to know what the proper technique is.

Tail high or low work. Speed is critical. Dragging the tail in the water can lead to very bad things quickly. If you have the speed to get your tail off the ground without forward pressure you getting close to the proper speed. Not certain I agree with the square root of tire pressure etc., for floatation. When I am running at 8 psi or 16 psi my speed is the same for skiing to the beach or for fun. The other idea of not doing this form of landing as non essential, is purely an opinion. Water to access a beach and water to get out might be your only option if there is a needed reason to land. Honestly, if you were to have an engine out and a small beach was your only option I would take the "ski to the beach" option before ditching in the water and loosing the aircraft. Go with speed, flare, ski to beach, stop on dry land. Yeah sure, that sounds easy... Having the confidence to do such is a bonus. As said before, skiing is really not the big of a deal. In fact its very easy BUT you must learn from someone who has done it. I consider it an essential part of backcountry flying. Just like going out and finding a new place to land rather than landing at a designated off field runway where thousands have been before. There is a lot to learn and a lot that goes into it.

AKT

18043A wrote:.......9 times the square root of the tire pressure is hydroplaning speed, anything below is sinking or fwd flipping speed. .........

I'm curious where that number came from? I guess if I run 16 psi in the tires I need 36mph to avoid "penetration", but if I run 9psi I only need 27 ?
Doesn't sound right....

So if the tail is up with no forward pressure then the speed is about right? That would be about 35mph in my plane on 800s; seems kinda slow. My buddy estimates he hit the water at about 50mpg and only had to use about 10ft of water before he could fly. Only talking about water assisted takeoffs here.

Lots of variables whee but your about right. For me 45-50 would be good (empty) but actual skiing is good at about 50. Weight of aircraft and configuration play a big part. Obviously using water for TO is a very bad idea if the person has never skied before. Much of the question is answered once they have ski time knowing what works in his/her aircraft.

Also no disrespect here but I am not certain I agree with the square root / tire pressure concept. Where did that come from anyhow?

Akt

The speed is also going to change depending on the size of the tires... I wouldn't attempt a water assisted landing/takeoff with anything smaller than bushwheels.

aktahoe1 wrote:Also no disrespect here but I am not certain I agree with the square root / tire pressure concept. Where did that come from anyhow?

It is Horne's Equation. Used to predict the hydroplaning speed of aircraft tires but it doesn't really apply hear because of some of the assumptions made. You can read about it here : http://www.nlr-atsi.nl/downloads/hydroplaning-of-modern-aircraft-tires.pdf

Guess my "friend" will have to find someone to give him a lesson on skiing. Lots of gravel bars around here that are long enough to land but pretty marginal for takeoff.

I respect your opinion Rob and agree with the landing part but if skiing speed can be reached before you hit the water on takeoff then I don't see why it would be a big deal even on small tires.

Gonna post the vid of the departure in a bit but will only leave it active for a couple hours to protect my friend from his wife...

I deleted my reply. I had thought that the pressure referred to was the psi exerted by the tire surface on the runway not the psi inside the tire. The weight and tire size then become relevant as they should. I may be mistaken in that according to this.

http://www.mountainflying.com/Pages/mou ... aning.html

Times up...

That's not a Beach that's a Tundra.