So out of curiosity, how much ice will a 170 pack in icing conditions? Lets start with the obvious, STAY OUT OF THE ICE! Now, I have heard rumors a 206 will pack more ice than is in the Cook Inlet right now. Also a 185. A 207? Not from what I hear. There is a reason its affectionately called a lead sled....
So, anyone hear anything on what a 170 will (has) pack?
Just to be clear, Im not talking about packing ice inside
Feel free to send me a pm if not appropriate for posting.
Greg

It will pack about an ounce on the venturis and pitot tube before you lose your vacuum gauges and ASI. Then you are flying IFR in icing conditions relying on your mag compass, altimeter, turn and bank, VSI and tach for attitude indications. Then you pull the carb heat in hopes of keeping the hamster wheel up front purring. As you accumulate airframe ice you begin your ever increasing mandatory descent with erroneus airspeed indication until Mr. Darwin has yet another data point supporting his well known but often debated theory. I would definitely conduct this experiment at night in the mountains for a little extra excitement!

A C207 will pack a shitload of ice and still fly. Don't ask me how I know.

But bottom line, you DO NOT want to find out the answer to this question. I ain't scared of much in this world, and have done some really dumb things in airplanes, but ice is the only thing that had me sewing-machine-foot terrified while flying.

Bud Helmericks gave me the ice flying rule for single-engine Cessnas. Use up to full power to maintain airspeed and level flight in ice. UNTIL you hit eighty knots. From then on, you hold that eighty knots all the way to the ground.

Can't tell you the number of times I've come into OTZ or BRW with every knob on the panel shoved full forward holding that 80 KTS, praying for 15 more seconds flying time out of the wing. It's not a fun place to be.



Gump

roamak wrote:A 207? Not from what I hear. There is a reason its affectionately called a lead sled....

A Sled is a Sled because it came to be the direct replacement for a dog sled in the villages. Not too long ago, C207's delivered a huge percentage of the people and supplies to the remote bush towns in Alaska. And, a full Sled fills up a dog sled full of stuffs!



Gump

GumpAir wrote:A C207 will pack a shitload of ice and still fly. Don't ask me how I know.

But bottom line, you DO NOT want to find out the answer to this question. I ain't scared of much in this world, and have done some really dumb things in airplanes, but ice is the only thing that had me sewing-machine-foot terrified while flying.

Bud Helmericks gave me the ice flying rule for single-engine Cessnas. Use up to full power to maintain airspeed and level flight in ice. UNTIL you hit eighty knots. From then on, you hold that eighty knots all the way to the ground.

Can't tell you the number of times I've come into OTZ or BRW with every knob on the panel shoved full forward holding that 80 KTS, praying for 15 more seconds flying time out of the wing. It's not a fun place to be.



Gump

That sure is a crappy looking paint job What do you mean it's not paint

And that's not a bad load. It's all scraped off and ready to go for another trip.

This is the airplane young Aerial was learning to fly on "Flying Wild Alaska" It just went thru two wrecks and a paint job after she was my work plane in OTZ. ERA has her now.

Gump

Gump,
Have you got a picture of a 207/6 with a bunch of Ice?
Did you spray silicone on the black tape? Looks like ya had boots on it. Or did ya knock the thick chunks off already?
Next question, how much did it cost you whenever the DO found the seat belt hangin out the door??
Was case a beer where I was, just like the door still open after ya tied it down!!
GT

Hey George.

Ice was already knocked off. No boots, just crappy brown paint. As I recall, door was open and I was getting in and headed to Point Hope when I took this pic.

Gump

Thanks Gump! I know the sled will pack a hell of a load and do it in style I have no fight to pick with a 207, having several hundred (estimated) hours in right seat, second row, and third row (and holding the tail up for start up) I have actually watched a shit ton of ice build on the leading edges and windscreen on one flight I will never forget and it scared the hell out of me and the driver! With that, rumor has it a 2 zero 6 will pack more. True or false I do not know or want to find out.
Dont know how long you been out of OTZ, but my 170 came from there. Also spent some time there working on the runway.
Greg

They all have the same wing more or less, and in reality quit flying pretty quickly. A C206 being a few hundred pounds lighter has a slight advantage, but it's still a crap shoot.

Each icing encounter forms differently on your leading edges and prop. Some days you're light and the ice is smooth. Others, you're waddling thru the air like a pig over gross, and the ice looks like unicorn horns popping out all over.

A C170 will do no better, probably worse. Main thing is, don't get slow and be prepared for nasty shit to happen if you pull much flap. You're gonna be a test pilot for a new wing shape.

Gump

This is a completely different topic than I thought. I thought the OP was making plans for the party at JC this summer. I still expected Gump to have the answer though.

Brett

I know how much ice a 182 has carried and still flew--at high power down the ILS at 100 knots into Idaho Falls. We were pretty light, with 3 aboard and 2 1/2 hours of fuel burned off, and only about 30# of baggage. The ice began after we were already past the IAF, built very quickly, and started flaking off in huge chunks as we got into warmer air.

Since that time, I've collected no more than frost to very light rime on any flight surfaces of any airplane before doing whatever was necessary to get out of the ice. I don't like being a test pilot. There are old, there are bold, and I'm old and want to get older!

Cary

206s, 207s and 185s have heated pitot tubes, engine driven vacuum pumps and fuel injected 300 hp motors. Wing similarity is one thing to consider, but venturis, unheated pitot probes, and carbureted 145 hp are pretty undesirable features when you are picking up ice in a 170.

I don't know if freezing rain counts, 170B, one December near Sutter's Buttes(CA) I picked up some, called the Feds. (PIREP) they got real excited, decended 2000', kept on going, no degradation of performance-couldn't see outside to see how thick anyway.

I think the only truly valid response to the question "How much ice can a 170 pack?" is that you really don't want to find out. Icing is one of if not THE nastiest and sneakiest thing that can affect a flight. If you're flying a 170 (or anything else not equipped for flight into known icing) and you start to accumulate ANY ice, you REALLY need to get it OUT of the icing condition ASAP.

I got a Super Cub iced up one day, on skis. White airplane, white skis, white everything. Came in to land in Bettles, and was going to hot dog it and fly it onto the groomed strip at high speed....just for fun. As I slowed through 70 mph, the bottom fell out and I landed. Fortunately, I was plenty low when it gave up, and it's a long strip.

Temperature was -30, and there was haze. Flew around in that stuff for hours, and nothing on the windshield, no indication of ice (plane had a heated pitot and it was on). That plane gained a colored leading edge right after that.

Scary shit, airframe icing.

MTV

mtv wrote:

I got a Super Cub iced up one day, on skis. White airplane, white skis, white everything. Came in to land in Bettles, and was going to hot dog it and fly it onto the groomed strip at high speed....just for fun. As I slowed through 70 mph, the bottom fell out and I landed. Fortunately, I was plenty low when it gave up, and it's a long strip.
Scary shit, airframe icing.

MTV

Darn Mike u took my story I lived in Bettles running the Air Taxi and Lodge for Frontier. Had my own Cub there. Was headed to Fairbanks in the cub in marginal conditions which turned into freezing rain. Could not keep the windscreen clear with the heater hose on high, ice was building fast on wings and struts. Turned around and headed back to Bettles. Had over and inch of ice on leading edge. Thought I would hold it off the runway about a foot or two and see where it would stall. Just like MTV said it stalled at 70 MPH. Glad I didn't make any steep turns

"with every knob on the panel shoved full forward holding that 80 KTS, praying for 15 more seconds flying time "
Been there once in an Apache, tried to climb out of freezing rain (DUMB) . At 10000 she just stopped flying and started to flutter down like a leaf. Did manage to get it on the ground at YXU, no forward visibility and close to an inch of ice covering the wing! Never Again!

GumpAir wrote:A C207 will pack a shitload of ice and still fly. Don't ask me how I know.

But bottom line, you DO NOT want to find out the answer to this question. I ain't scared of much in this world, and have done some really dumb things in airplanes, but ice is the only thing that had me sewing-machine-foot terrified while flying.

Bud Helmericks gave me the ice flying rule for single-engine Cessnas. Use up to full power to maintain airspeed and level flight in ice. UNTIL you hit eighty knots. From then on, you hold that eighty knots all the way to the ground.

Can't tell you the number of times I've come into OTZ or BRW with every knob on the panel shoved full forward holding that 80 KTS, praying for 15 more seconds flying time out of the wing. It's not a fun place to be.



Gump

Problem up north is the long distances between bug out places. You can start out in wx that's fine, but halfway to where you're going, these mist filled ceilings just drop, and there you are. Ice in front, ice behind, and nowhere to go to get out of it.

And the stuff sticks weird. Not just on leading edges, but all over the airplane. I've been out on misty days with 10-20 miles visibility, and look out at the wing and see little ice horns building on the entire underside of the wing. My first time in it, I thought WTF? But soon after went, "Oh Shit" as my airspeed started turning to crap in the stuff. And puckered big time as I finally made it home.

Gump

Ice theory looks predictable; ice actuality is anything but predictable. Best to stay out of it, no matter how well the airplane is equipped.

Cary