Before I got my Maule, I wanted to fly so bad I would go flying with anyone who had access to a plane. Fast forward 11 years and I find I am reluctant to fly with certain pilots.

I am very uncomfortable when I don't have the controls and a fellow pilot is flying near the edge of the envelope. This never used to bother me. After seeing friends die, and reading here about very good pilots crashing, and some getting killed, I now feel different.

I have even ask some of my buddies not to try and scare me, or impress me with daring feats. (I have been guilty of this, no more!)

I am looking for help here. I want to add verbal skills to what I have. I want to learn how to better communicate with friends and acquaintances what I expect when I am a passenger. I don't want to offend anyone.

I'll relate a story that happened to, two of my friends. The PIC was on short final. He was coming up short. Rather than lowering the nose and adding power he kept pulling back which only made things worse. The right seat pilot who has over 4000 hours tells the PIC to add power and get the nose down. PIC doen't respond and pulls back more. Just before the plane stalls the right seat guy, in a move to avoid a crash, adds power and lowers the nose. Thankfully the PIC admitted the right seat pilot did the correct thing.

Am I the only pilot who feels like this? How do you tell a friend you don't want to fly with them as PIC?

Cheers...Rob

Mount - up and look around in an obvious manner. When friend asks what you're looking for, tell them you need to know where the fire extinguisher is so you can use it to knock him/her out with if they scare you. It'll be smooth sailing.

I will ride with any of my friends, I don't mind being in the back if there is someone the wants to be up front. If I am riding with a lower time pilot or one that hasn't done back country stuff, I will take on a "mentor" role, which I feel pretty comfortable with. I guess if I was in that situation you are describing I would just say 'no thanks'.

I have felt uncomfortable to the point of saying "no thanks" to flying with a friend because of maintenance issues on their aircraft.

I can't remember...what was it I said to you, Rob?

Lay down the law BEFORE you go! Tell them upfront " No extreme flying near the edge." No watersking on wheels! -Otherwise I'm not interested in going! No stupid pilot tricks!

Zzz wrote:I can't remember...what was it I said to you, Rob?

Let me refresh your memory.

"WHAT THE %UCK WAS THAT"

Never again!

Like Headoutdaplane said, I have always been comfortable with the teacher role. In all these years and all the students and other pilots, I didn't have to get out of an airplane until last year. Just say please land and then just get out. They will figure it out if they were acting immaturity.

When boys are having fun, look around! Something is going to happen.

A boy is about a boy, two boys are about half a boy,and three boys ain't no boy at all. As Cam once said, "It's just simple math.

The first time I rode passenger in an aerobatic flight was with a pretty well known pilot/builder in a 260hp Starduster. When we snuggled in and got the intercom turned on he said: "Look, I already know I'm the greatest pilot who ever lived so I don't have to prove it to you. I'm going to do some loops and rolls and have a little fun but I'm not going to show off or do anything I haven't done a thousand time. If you want to stop just tell me and we'll go straight and level. Please remember though that if you grab the stick and endanger me or the airplane I've got a pistol back here and I'll blow your head off if you do anything stupid."

Was that the kind of verbiage you were looking for?

I've flown with several nervous passengers, and always appreciate when they tell me up front what's on their mind. Even with pilots in the plane I am gentle, but it's good to know they are apprehensive. Having been a passenger in some aircraft where things have exceeded my comfort level, I am getting better about explaining that I have a desire to arrive alive as well. I've even become selective of CFI's if I don't feel they share my desire to live; I have no problem pushing my own limits and experience in a proper way, but reject the cowboy BS some people feel the need to do.

My advice is that if you have concerns to just be up front about it. If the pilot of the aircraft has a problem with that, you don't want to be there with them anyway and you'll have an opportunity to exit the situation before you raise the stakes. I'd approach it as "I am uncomfortable with aggressive flying as a passenger and would appreciate that we fly nice and smooth and within the lines" and it'll be fine. You don't need to get to the point of "I think you're an idiot and want you to fly right", because if that's what's on your mind you shouldn't be there anyway. In that instance, whether you politely decline the flight with an excuse or just tell them straight up what's going on is subjective to the relationship.

Good topic.

I'll fly with pretty much anyone if the airplane is maintained and inspected properly, the weather is acceptable, and I also have controls.

I'd fly back seat with most of my friends/pilots but there are exceptions.

Also I have friends that fly $hitty/salvaged airplanes with squalks. I'd be reluctant to fly in those planes, but if the control surfaces are on tight even then I'd tag along.

Other than several times with students, whose goal in life seems to be to kill or maim the instructor, I've only felt uncomfortable flying with one pilot, in all these years. He was an experienced IR pilot, flying a T210 that I'd flown in before with one of his partners and had borrowed with the consent of all of the partners, but this was the first (and only) time I'd flown with him. We were flying from Laramie to Pinedale.

It was a typical wintry Laramie day, with an overcast ceiling of maybe 3500' and temps around 15-20F. The first thing that bothered me was that he didn't use the radio to announce his departure from Laramie. At the time, Laramie had an on-field FSS, and its frequency was the CTAF. Until that moment, I didn't realize that he had not filed IFR, because normally the FSS provided the clearance. And normally, most pilots announced their departure for traffic purposes.

So shortly after take off, I said something like, "I gather that you didn't file IFR." His response was that he wasn't current. OK. I've flown VFR many times when I wasn't IFR current. But then he climbed up to just below the ceiling, straight toward the gap between Elk Mountain and the Snowy Range mountains west of Laramie. He then proceeded to wind his way through the mountains at just below the clouds--apparently he knew the way, but he wasn't using a chart--occasionally back tracking when clouds got in the way. I kept wondering why he'd gone that way--I'd flown many times back and forth to Pinedale, and there's no need to go through the mountains. A more direct route actually skirts the mountains.

To cut a long story short, by the time we landed at Pinedale, I was really, REALLY glad to be there, and I'd already decided that although I liked the pilot as a person, I didn't want to fly with him again. To put it bluntly, his ADM and mine just didn't agree. I was never placed in the position, though, of having to tell him that I wouldn't fly with him again.

Since that experience, I've been a bit more proactive about voicing any concerns I might have, but I've not had any other experiences that were as concerning. I've said things like, "are you comfortable with the weather?", "do you have enough fuel?", and the like, but I haven't felt the need to back out of a flight.

Cary

There was a kind old guy I liked being around. In time I realised he was the most experienced pilot I may ever meet. Walt Henning was a lifetime Navy and FAA Helo Muti Sea instructor examiner. Others claimed he had demonstrated auto rotate back words. I was a fan of Walt until asking for a BFR. A few minutes into the flight I thought, what happened ? On the ground I asked why he did certain things to distract me while changing CG with his seat when I was under the hood. It seemed over the top. He said who do you think I am ? Santa ? Did you learn anything ? That's my job.
The last flight with Walt was in the crud with a rented Barron to pick up a heavy steel mold 400 miles away.
OhOh no headsets. He turned up the volume high for bad hearing and I told him when you talk to center, your dropping a wing.. I want to take a bus home. Was he getting too old for this ?
Then he said it's your plane, you fly,I'll talk. We remained friends and I think the world of Walt.
The lesson was everyone is much different in the sky. It exemplifies the talent and shortcomings.
Walt said he noticed each student came with different god given talent or problems.. Hidden for a while ?
I have friends I respect a lot on the ground, but as soon as we take off, It's about higher awareness sensory survival. This can take some by surprise until it happens many times. It hard to see what's coming.
The pilots I won't fly with have new extra ratings and land way too fast at my home strip.
My #1 Complaint, pilots using too much time playing with panel gadgets in VFR.. That almost killed me mid air several times and I was using center for traffic. I don't want to fly with guys doing that.
What's a computer geek salesman new pilot going to be doing in the air ? I know one of those too.
He bragged about spending big bucks on radio stack but nothing on the rest of an ugly 1950's V tail Boza.
They say there is flying, and there is driving. Numbers are great but you really notice talent.
Happy Friendships to you

A bunch of years ago I was working on my instrument/commercial/CFI at a tech college. It was fairly routine for students who weren't flying to fly in the rear of a plane just to observe and learn.

One morning a young kid I attended classes with said he wanted to ride with me. With my instructor in the right seat I jumped in the plane after refueling and said "I filled it with jet fuel to see if it would climb better".

We had a good laugh and then the kid in the back said "Uh, you know what? I just remembered another appointment. I have to go." I tried to make sure he knew I was kidding but he never asked for another ride.

There's a hot dog at a field we fly to sometimes. He was always after us to fly with him in his aerobatic plane. It's obvious by being around him on the ground that the flight would be nothing but him showing off and flying on the ragged edge. He wouldn't accept a polite no thank you so we told him ok but he'd have to clean out his airplane after I lose lunch . He never asked again.

So perhaps saying something about getting nauseous when you are nervous in the airplane.

Life is short. I don't need you making it even shorter.

Y'all just need to develop a properly caustic and abrasive personality. I've been a pilot for almost 30 years and nobody's asked me to go fly with them yet...

Hammer wrote:Y'all just need to develop a properly caustic and abrasive personality. I've been a pilot for almost 30 years and nobody's asked me to go fly with them yet...

That's funny right there.

red sled wrote:There's a hot dog at a field we fly to sometimes. He was always after us to fly with him in his aerobatic plane. It's obvious by being around him on the ground that the flight would be nothing but him showing off and flying on the ragged edge. He wouldn't accept a polite no thank you so we told him ok but he'd have to clean out his airplane after I lose lunch . He never asked again.

So perhaps saying something about getting nauseous when you are nervous in the airplane.

That's clever if you need to be non-confrontational about it. No one wants puke in their plane.

Just tell the truth a nicely as you can. Spinning some yarn is more offensive than telling me you don't trust me as a pilot.

“Every time you go up in the air you’re unsafe. I don’t like you because you’re dangerous”