Who would you call to discuss experiential IO-470 engine options? I've been pouring over the IO470 and O470 engine manuals to figure out if I can put an engine together the way I want it. I don't have a parts manual so that is making it hard to figure out what engines share the same crank/damper and piston configurations. Would be nice to find an expert I could call and talk to about what I want to do and the best way to go about it.

EDIT: Just found the I/O-470 parts manual.

I'd call Loren Lemen at Lycon. Loren used to be Continental's primary tech rep. He now works for Lycon. The most knowledgeable guy on Continental engines of any flavor in my experience.

MTV

Thanks MTV. I'll give him a try.

Whee,

Are you thinking about using an O-470 in your Bearhawk?

I want to use a TCM IO-360 but I am looking at a IO-470 as an option.

I thought I had an O-470 PDF service and parts manuals, but I couldn't find them, a quick google search turned up this.
http://www.redskyventures.org/doc/cessn ... _11976.pdf

No offense, but you seem kinda stuck on injected engines. How come-- something wrong with carburetors?
Although they're 230 horse vs 260 for the IO, I'd suggest an O-470 of the K L or R flavor. Lots of them out there. Not sure what the IO-470 was OEM on except the C205 & early 185 & 210.

Not taking sides, but one of the reasons people often want FI instead of carb is that they believe that icing will be a thing of the past. It won't. While there's no carb throat to ice up, intake ice is still a realistic possibility--that's why every certificated FI engine has an alternate air supply to bypass the aircleaner and the normal intake plenum.

Been there, done that. At 12,000' in a Mooney 231 south along the Front Range in below zero IMC, I had been watching the wing leading edges, and although there was internal frost on the windows, there was nothing on the wings and no ice forming anywhere that I could see. I had turned on the autopilot to look more closely at the charts, in preparation for a turn. I sensed that things were getting quieter, and a quick glance at the panel showed the airspeed coming down and the manifold pressure dropping. I adjusted the throttle, switched tanks, and tried the boost pump, but no response. I declared an emergency and asked for vectors to Pueblo, which was showing 200 and a 1/2--bare minimums. Meanwhile I continued to trouble shoot while losing some 1300'. Then I remembered the manual alternate air door knob hidden under the panel, pulled it, and the engine roared to life. We climbed back up to 12,000' and continued the trip on to Durango. After landing there, I looked at the front of the airplane, and the air intake was totally clogged with ice, with substantial ice all over the front of the cowl. Just guessing, I've often wondered if running the hot prop contributed to the ice formation on the cowl and in the intake.

The other reason people often want FI is for more even mixture distribution among the cylinders, and that's a valid reason, especially if the plan is to run LOP using an engine analyzer.

Meanwhile, those of us who have no choice continue running our carbs, watching for carb ice (a carb temp gauge is a huge help), and seeing that our mixture distribution and consequently our CHTs and EGTs vary among the cylinders quite a bit. That's life, right?

Cary

Carb ice isn't a concern for me, I know how to pull the carb heat knob. I'm not set on FI but I do want mogas and <10GHP. A IO470K is 225hp, reasonable weight, approved for mogas, and at LOP will burn 9.5gph at 60%power. Sounds pretty good to me.

If it's still available, there might be a 470 for sale under $10k on one of these threads. I kinda talked to a mechanic friend of mine and he said it was a great deal! Too bad I didn't have that kind of cash right now.

Cary,

The Cessna 185/206 have a spring loaded door in the induction inlet tube. If the vacuum inside the induction rises, that spring loaded door opens against pressure, ducting relatively warm air from within the cowling into the induction system. Unfiltered, but no way to ice it up.....basically a super simple and very reliable system to prevent induction icing in a fuel injected engine.

And, it works.....believe me.

MTV

whee wrote:Carb ice isn't a concern for me, I know how to pull the carb heat knob. I'm not set on FI but I do want mogas and <10GHP. A IO470K is 225hp, reasonable weight, approved for mogas, and at LOP will burn 9.5gph at 60%power. Sounds pretty good to me.

FWIW the O-470 power chart I have shows my normal slow cruise of 21"/2300 as being 62% power and burning 11.5 gph at 145 mph at 2500'. I admit I'm a pessimist, but 9.5 at 60% sounds too good to be true.
I'm not sure what the 225hp IO-470K was used in, but Cessna used the 260hp IO-470F in the 185 205 & 210. They discontinued the 205 after only about 2 years, and bumped the other two to the 285hp IO-520 in pretty short order. That doesn't mean the IO is no good, but it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it either.

Whee,

Have you looked in to the B series O-540 (235-250 HP with 7:0 to 1 Pistons). They will burn car gas and weigh significantly less the the 0-470. You don't see many Bearhawks with Continentals in them...

hotrod180 wrote:

whee wrote:Carb ice isn't a concern for me, I know how to pull the carb heat knob. I'm not set on FI but I do want mogas and <10GHP. A IO470K is 225hp, reasonable weight, approved for mogas, and at LOP will burn 9.5gph at 60%power. Sounds pretty good to me.

FWIW the O-470 power chart I have shows my normal slow cruise of 21"/2300 as being 62% power and burning 11.5 gph at 145 mph at 2500'. I admit I'm a pessimist, but 9.5 at 60% sounds too good to be true.
I'm not sure what the 225hp IO-470K was used in, but Cessna used the 260hp IO-470F in the 185 205 & 210. They discontinued the 205 after only about 2 years, and bumped the other two to the 285hp IO-520 in pretty short order. That doesn't mean the IO is no good, but it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in it either.

The Baron guys will tell you the IO-470-L is the best engine Continental ever built. The Bonanza guys will argue the IO-470-N was the most reliable. Either way..

The IO-470-S in my 205 will run 70% at 10.9gph @ 6500'- (I have GAMI's). The fuel specifics are much better in an injected 470 and they aren't ice makers. Otherwise they are similar. Of course the Manufacturers have opted for bigger motors over the years just like everyone here would run a 550 if they could, its not a confidence thing.

fly wrote:Have you looked in to the B series O-540 (235-250 HP with 7:0 to 1 Pistons). They will burn car gas and weigh significantly less the the 0-470. You don't see many Bearhawks with Continentals in them...

I haven't really looked into them because I know they are a good option and it will be easy to get information about them. From what I've gathered the O540 is ~400lbs but I don't know if that includes and accessories. According to the overhaul manual the IO470K weighs 395lbs with everything but oil, prop gov and baffling...that's right there with the O540 and it gives me FI that works with mogas, the ability to run a big Mac and they are cheaper; everybody wants a O540 for their experimental.

Just from looking at the weight numbers the 520 series were pretty close in weight to the 470 series. I'd guess that is why the IO470 got dumped for the IO520. The 520 is just too heavy for what I want, and so are most of the 470 engines. I still want a TCM IO360 but thought it would be wise to consider other options. I'm hoping to call Lycon tomorrow so i can figure out what will work and what won't.

mtv wrote:Cary,

The Cessna 185/206 have a spring loaded door in the induction inlet tube. If the vacuum inside the induction rises, that spring loaded door opens against pressure, ducting relatively warm air from within the cowling into the induction system. Unfiltered, but no way to ice it up.....basically a super simple and very reliable system to prevent induction icing in a fuel injected engine.

And, it works.....believe me.

MTV

Yeah, I can't recall whether the Mooney had a spring-loaded alternate air door backed up with the knob, or whether the knob was it. Either way, pulling the knob solved the issue at the time. An unwanted thrill, to say the least. I was close enough to be within gliding distance, but I've often wondered if I hadn't gotten it going again, if I could have made it into Pueblo at minimums without power. I believe it could be done, if the stars aligned just right, but whether I could have done it is another thing.

Cary

So after talking to Lycon it just makes sense to stick with my IO360 plan. They can build me a 235hp IO360 that weighs ~350-360lbs that will swing a 86" Mac and still be a certified engine/prop combo. I don't really care about the certified part but it does make the phase 1 test period 25hrs instead of 40. He also said it doesn't cost any more to overhaul a 360 than it does a 470 or 520.

hotrod180 wrote:No offense, but you seem kinda stuck on injected engines. How come-- something wrong with carburetors?
Although they're 230 horse vs 260 for the IO, I'd suggest an O-470 of the K L or R flavor. Lots of them out there. Not sure what the IO-470 was OEM on except the C205 & early 185 & 210.

Debonaires 225hp through 260hp.

It was the IO470K (225hp) out of Deb that caught my eye. Lycon said there was no point in going with a K because the 360 is lighter and will provide the same HP. I thought a K modified to 8:1 compression giving 250hp and only weighing 400lbs sounded pretty good but I guess it isn't worth the expense to put that combo together.

Did they say anything about fuel type with an IO360 turned up like that?