Forget the A/P ticket. Go to work for the local Ford dealer. You'll make more money and less paperwork/legal crap. In Alaska, if you work for someone else as A/P, you will make less than the Ford mech. You will have to work for someone else for a while until you get the experience to go on your on. That takes money, tools, books, hanger etc. One of the large, well known aircraft repair shops in Anchorage charges $100/ Hr. for maintenance. He pays his mechs $17/Hr. Car mechs make $25/35 Hr.
I've been working on planes for over 50 years. I wouldn't do it again. I'd go to work for the Ford dealer and buy a cheap plane to fly. Your wife and kids will like that. You will be home every night.
Buddy up to an old A/P and give him a hand now and then. You can learn to work on your own plane and maybe get a cheaper Annual Inspection.

apexshot wrote:

mtv wrote:Find a college or university that offers aviation coursework AND a BS degree in a field you're interested in.

Chapter 33 GI Bill will pay for almost everything, including the flight training. Graduate, see what's out there, and don't like it, go back in the Army at higher pay as an officer. You both get a little taste of civilian life and still a fall back position.
MTV

I'm actually the guy who posted a month or so ago about aviation degrees. My plan, if I get out, is to use my GI bill for flight school. I want to use my GI bill on the flight school because its expensive. If I can do that, and then go back to school for a business degree, I think that would be a perfect combination.

hotrod150 wrote:

apexshot wrote:..... it boils down to two choices for me. Either stay in the Army, or get out & be a pilot.....

Bad idea. Chapter 33 will pay for your college expenses AND your flight training BOTH, but the GI Bill benefit is generally limited to 36 months entitlement, ie: four academic years.

In MN, for example, Chapter 33 will pay tuition, room and board, fees, books AND up to $37,000 per semester in "Lab Fees". Flight training is considered a Lab Fee when this course work is required in the degree program.

THAT is a HUGE benefit, but if you do the flight training first, you'll use most of your entitlement on that, and not much left for college. And vice versa.

MTV

Thanks for all the help guys.

apexshot wrote:
But thats only because I insist on doing something dangerous. I've already told my wife, my next job is going to be a crash test dummy.

I had the best job ever and would do it again in a heart beat! Sounds right for you too.


Only need a associate degree from a community college, EMT basic (para god better) you get bonus points for military, make 74K or more a year, 30 year is max pension retire at 83% of final pay, work 120 shifts a year, then take off 15 vacation shifts ( each shift gets you 5 days in a row off) so that is 15-5 day vacations, now take off 6 Kelly days, that's 6 more 5 day vacations, 6 shifts a year sick leave, so you only go to work 99 days a year. You will have to work all holidays at some point for no extra pay, work 24 hour shifts and sometimes no sleep for 24 hours, women love you, you get to help people who really need you, people bring you cookies and thank you cards, get to drive big trucks as fast as you want passing everyone and going through red lights, plenty of time to work a 2nd job and that will give you flying money.

It is a dangerous job. Guys die from getting hit by cars, all kinds of weird cancers, falls, AIDS, shot, crushed, lost, run out of air, occasionally burn to death, very rarely die in a high rise collapse hit by terrorist jets.

Yep that's the best job in the world!

Cheers...Rob 32 year FD Ret.

Don't forget about veterans preference for gov jobs. You can get just about any job you sorta qualify for almost anywhere in the country. I'd think being a BLM LEO spending my working days driving around in a government rig out in the middle of nowhere with my dog in the back seat making 60-70k a year would be pretty sweet. Then I could fly for fun, maybe even get my commercial ticket and fly part-time for the local outfit.

I wanted to say that i am in the Tech field...I am a pee-on network administrator making barely $35,000 a year...Its not as great as people think it is. It is a field of no fulfillment or enjoyment. You never finish a job. You can never look back at what you have done and say, "I did that".

I too am working on a career change and I hope to be flying. To me I would rather make nothing and enjoy what I do than to make a lot and hate everyday...but in my case...I make nothing and hate everyday! Go with your heart on this. Living standards can be adjusted to make room for it. It all depends on what you enjoy...what keeps you the clouds while still setting on the ground.

If I had it to do all over again, I would have listened to my gut instincts back at 8 years old and continued with my interest in flying. I let other people's opinions of what I "should" and "Shouldn't" do interfere with what I loved.

Good luck with your decisions.

whee wrote:Don't forget about veterans preference for gov jobs. You can get just about any job you sorta qualify for almost anywhere in the country. I'd think being a BLM LEO spending my working days driving around in a government rig out in the middle of nowhere with my dog in the back seat making 60-70k a year would be pretty sweet. Then I could fly for fun, maybe even get my commercial ticket and fly part-time for the local outfit.

I figured you'd have to have some sort of law enforcement background for that sorta thing, but it does sound pretty awesome!

Y'all have certainly given me a lot to think about! Thanks all.

apexshot wrote:

whee wrote:Don't forget about veterans preference for gov jobs. You can get just about any job you sorta qualify for almost anywhere in the country. I'd think being a BLM LEO spending my working days driving around in a government rig out in the middle of nowhere with my dog in the back seat making 60-70k a year would be pretty sweet. Then I could fly for fun, maybe even get my commercial ticket and fly part-time for the local outfit.

I figured you'd have to have some sort of law enforcement background for that sorta thing, but it does sound pretty awesome!

Y'all have certainly given me a lot to think about! Thanks all.

You would have to have some sort of law enforcement background for that sorta thing....the good news is, if you were to get hired, the federal government is going to send you to scenic southern Georgia for 16 weeks of fun at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center.

I will also tell you that the government veteran's preference is nowhere as strict or strong as Whee suggests. I worked in that world for 34 years, and was on both ends of hiring. That said, the veteran's preference certainly can help.

Right now, being a minority or female will get you a lot farther in most agencies. If you were a black female disabled veteran, Whee's statement would pretty much be true.

But, vets preference is there, and federal government jobs aren't all that bad, depending on what you do. Me, I had the keys to two airplanes, a badge and gun, and involvement in a lot of interesting projects. Don't expect to jump right into one of those jobs, though. They are out there for the person who is fully qualified, though.

MTV

xcalibursword wrote:I wanted to say that i am in the Tech field...I am a pee-on network administrator making barely $35,000 a year...Its not as great as people think it is. It is a field of no fulfillment or enjoyment. You never finish a job. You can never look back at what you have done and say, "I did that".

Sorry to hear that. I have had nearly the opposite experience, but I am in software development, and I am 15 years into my career. I happen to be very lucky that I work for a great company who has their niche figured out. I work for hourly commission, like a lawyer. The harder I work, the more money I make. We have positions from helpdesk/netadmin all the way up to senior software developers, and we allow people with initiative to self-study and prove themselves and ascend the ranks. The good jobs are out there for those with initiative. Don't give up on the industry yet.

Yeah, it might sound like hell to some. If I was stinking rich, I would be living on a remote lake somewhere with a DHC-2 parked at my dock, and spend my days cutting firewood and fishing. I would not choose a pilot career though, even if I was 18 again and had all the opportunities. I like relegating flying to a hobby. No one ever pressures me to fly in bad wx, and I choose my passengers. I work from home and see my wife every day, and I get paid to tinker with technology.

Zzz wrote: I work from home and see my wife every day, and I get paid to tinker with technology.

Sounds an awful lot like my youngest son. Except he still lives at my home, eats my food, bums money from his mom and isn't married. But he is a technology geek.

For what it is worth here is my two cents.

I was really lucky and started flying young. I was instructing by the time I was 18 and flying turbine twins by 20, I owned an aircraft management company till I was 29 and was lucky enough to get several types and flew everything from gliders to helicopters in the process. When I was 28 I was in a bad bicycle crash and was told I was going to lose the use of my left arm. I walked away from that career with no regrets and really don't miss it much. On the other hand I absolutely love recreationally flying and am lucky enough to get to fly some really great stuff still.

My Girlfriend is also a corp pilot and she is very qualified and recently had been job hunting in Colorado while continuing to fly for my old business partner in texas. It was a two year process and she settled for flying a cj2 out of sheridan wy for modest income, but not family supporting income.

I had the opportunity to look at the airlines when I was younger and got to have a candid conversation with the recruiter for Continental Airlines (he was my friend's dad growing up). He steered me away for a variety of reasons and I am not sure that was a good thing or a bad thing, but I have colleagues that did go that route and many have been on furlough for a while now.

I am in zzz's camp. Professionally flying is a hard road to hoe and it takes as much luck as passion, and as I found out it can disappear with any little health issues. I would rather fly for fun than rely on it for income.

just my two cents.

There was a recent thread on this. I'll find it and post it when I get a minute. The initial payoff isn't great, but if you can make it past the regionals it isn't a bad gig. Lots of flexibility and good money. The looming pilot shortage should do good things for the industry. Those already in and those poised to be hired (meeting the minimum requirements) should benefit from this.

With per diems on top of salary, I was pulling in 100+K a year as a Cessna 207 driver my last few years, and with the right Part 135 company a guy could make even more by moving into the Navajo, Caravan, 1900, or Casa 212.

Had to live in a village to do it, but I had a free pilot house to live in. Not a bad life for a single guy. Wives tend to pout a bit though. But some love it, and I have bunches of flying family friends who have lived in Arctic AK for decades now.

Airplane job doesn't always equal major airline job.

Gump

I am in the "if you want it bad enough, you'll make it happen" and "you don't have to fly airlines to be successful or happy" crowd.
I am happy that I do what I do, I am happy to say that I go to fly for work. I don't care what all of the potential drawbacks or pitfalls were or are or will be in my aviation career. I was born to fly, it's all I've ever given a sh*t about, and it's what I do.
You have to ask yourself if you want to work an airplane or just fly for fun. There is a difference and sometimes the difference is a pain in the ass.
The concept that you are asking "should I" is unknown to me but may tell you a little about what you think. I never asked "should I" and failure was not an option. If there were thousands of other guys out there making a meager living at it then so could I, and that was all I needed to know. Full speed ahead.
If you want a big fat paycheck maybe you won't make it. If you recognize that many trades in the USA make an honest guy $50k a year and that with a little reservation and a working wife that you can live a fairly comfortable life then I believe that you can find multiple somethings in aviation that will keep you comfortable.
There are so many different and unique aspects of aviation to explore and become good at it confuses me to think about sometimes. Helicopters, fixed wing, charter, seaplanes, bush flying, corporate glass panels up high, agricultural work, scenic tours, flight instructing, flying jumpers, fish spotting, fighting fires, secret "kill ya" military special ops, ferrying aircraft over water, heli-logging, USDA coyote hunting, Wildlife pilot, lifeflight helo or fixed wing, hauling freight, towing gliders or banners, powerline/pipeline patrol, aerobatic performer or instructor, missionary aviation, police helicopter pilot, flight test pilot, etc. The list goes on and on and on. It is the challenge of mastering the different arts of aviation and meeting the various pilots that specialize in one aspect to hear their stories and try to soak up their knowledge that has always intrigued me. Kinda a journey rather than destination perspective maybe.
I have led a simple life in aviation, no rockstar b.s. or groupies. I have just enjoyed every minute of the simple aspects that I have chosen to learn and try to master. Although not always grand or plentiful, since I was 18 aviation has always provided for me, and for the last 15 years my family too. I would say that I am now a specialist in one aspect of aviation that happens to tie me in with a group that I am also proud to be a part of. A pleasant unexpected by-product of what I do in aviation. We are comfortable now, it has been a long slow build as it should be. I do not regret my choice and have absolutely no idea what I would be doing otherwise. I have carved a life for my family out of aviation and I don't wear a tie or thingy's on my shoulders although I respect the ones who do.
Many wise posts here full of real aviation career insight. I hope you find the answer but I believe it won't come from any of us. Whether for fun as a hobby or for work as a life, good luck.

Well said G3. There are lots of options out there and the more experience you get, the more doors will open to get a variety of experience. And all that makes you a more well rounded pilot as well as helps one decided what avenue they may like to pursue.

lowflyin'G3 wrote: Whether for fun as a hobby or for work as a life, good luck.

If your lucky, you'll get to do both.

I'm not a pro pilot. If I could choose any career I wanted I would probably be either a theoretical physicist or a fashion model. Unfortunately, both those careers require skills and abilities that I don't possess in abundance. So instead of pursuing one of those jobs I decided to do something for a living that I was both really good at and paid a decent wage and retirement package.

I'm a great believer in this principle of doing something that you are really passionate about, and being better at it than anybody else. Be competitive. I also found out throughout life that assholes get hired last and fired first. That doesn't mean that you have to be a pantywaist or a rollover; it just means that way over half of any job is about getting along. You can maybe get away with sniveling if you're a surgeon or a fashion model but not many other jobs are a good fit for that kind of guy. You know? Be willing to do the shit jobs in the beginning and not whine about it maybe.

Learn to quit when it ain't working. Move on.

If all that stuff fits your bag, especially the "better than anyone else" bit. Then go for it. Otherwise go for something you love and you are really really good at. Not every great skill is trainable. Most real ability is born, not made.

EB

Apexshot-I am not a pro pilot, though I've flown for about 45 years, I don't get paid for it...I have to pay for it. You have gotten some very good advice from some real qualified pilots with thousands of hours of experience. A couple of flags I've seen are; 1) your medical issue and the vision problem...I would suggest you see a specialist and make sure it won't be a problem, before you make "life changing decisions" and find out differently. 2) Don't know what kind of flying experience you have had, but I would pay $1000 or so and get an intro to aerobatics and some actual instrument time to see how you do with that. If that's already off your checklist, great! Some pilots solo in 5 hours and some in 50 hours. Wade on in, get started with some flying and see what happens. It won't take long and you will know. You don't have to quit your day job first.
RanchAero

40 years as a professional pilot..

...over 35 with a major airline. Retired super senior captain on a widebody: flying 9 day per month schedules, home every night, with 45 days annual vacation. Called in sick, with pay, several trip each year. The career had it ups an downs for sure. Airline pay, working conditions,benefits are not what they once were.. But during my career .....I managed to average over 4 times the median income.. I flew less than 10 days per month average over my entire career.(concidering vacation, sick days, training, standing reserve at home etc.) Wouldn't trade if for anyone else's life and would do it again in a heartbeat. The guys that call it "just a job" aren't aviators at heart. They are mere pilots. Ernie Ghann said " A pilot is a mere technician." "An aviator is an artist in love with flight." Truer words were never spoken. The scene from the cockpit is like no other earthly experience. Landing at night in a blinding snow storm with a 30 kt. direct crosswind. is not just a job. It is a thrill that little else can compare with. The view of the Gods. I never tired of it. Never once did I feel bored.

Follow your dream. But understand you will need a 4 year degree and spend several years at starvation wages before you are competitive for a job with a major airlines. The regionals are basically stepping stones and do not compare to a career at the majors. Even at the regionals, after Nov. of this year, the FAA will require one to have 1,500 flt. hours and the ATP written to hire on. The days of 300 hour flight instrutors getting copilot jobs on regional jets is coming to a screeching halt.

The long awaited pilot shortage is here at last. American Airlines,for example, hasn't hired a pilot in 12 years! The average age of their pilot group is in the mid 50's. They will have to replace 8,000 pilots within little more than a decade. Similiar situations exist at other airlines as well. Incredible seniority advancment for young pilots who hire on in the next few years. There will be thousands of other opportunities for new hires both domestically and with carriers in the middle east and Asia. China alone needs about 80,000 airline pilots in the next two decades.

My best friend's son is in his second year as a new copilot for Atlas Airlines making $92,000.00 a year as a B-747 copilot. If he stayed as a copilot eventually his pay would go up more than 50%. But he is less than 3 years from being a 767 captain at double his current pay. Not bad money. Everyone talks about how you can make lots more money doing other things. True for a few folks. I have a brother in law making $300 grand as an insurance broker. But how many folk manage that? Fact is major airline captains earn in the top 5% of all wage earners. Even copilots, after a few years are in the top 10 to 25% depending on seniority and equipment flown. So much for the money.

Follow your dream. But as in any profession....one does just not decide to "become" something. It takes intellect, time, money, hard work, a lot of personal sacrifice....and a healhty dose of GOOD LUCK.

I know because...I am the luckiest SOB you will ever meet!

Best Wishes

bob

An excellent perspective on a great career Skybolt!
I guess I would like to add that although I am quite content in what I do I might prefer that my kids don't have to fly under powerlines to make a living like their dad. If they deem that the choice, that's fine too BUT......
If any of them show interest in a professional career in aviation my plan is to push them toward jumbo work of some kind and not screw around doing it. Something like Big Bend CC, Riddle, UND, UVU, etc. for schooling. Buying a Seminole, Seneca, or Dutchess for them to fly the wings off of on the side through school to build multi/instrument time. Pay for a type rating or two for them. Try to get them prepped for Cathay Pacific or other Asian pilot-needy airline as a cruise FO to get some line time in the equipment. Then see how this upcoming change in regional minimal time requirements and upcoming legacy retirements affects things. Maybe with afew years of that experience they'll be able to come back and get on here. I have many friends from over the years at Atlas, Polar, UPS, FedEx, Southern Air, etc. and would utilize their guidance and contacts to help with interview prep and specific company hiring requirement compliance pre-interview.
I recognize that all of the prep/money is an investment into their future and I would like to see them succeed. At whatever occupation, but I could be a more effective father if they choose aviation, lol! The airlines may not be "what it used to be" but in comparison to some other occupations it's still a really good living and if you love flying double bonus. We'll see what they decide.

x2 Skybolt and G3, well written, too. A great mentor is invaluable. If Apexshot can find one of those....