Alright fellas, I've got a question for y'all.

I'm active duty Army, with no ties whatsoever to the aviation field. I've always been interested in Aviation, but I have a rare eye condition called duane's syndrome, which keeps me out of the cockpit of military aircraft. I have come to understand I can still get my class 1 physical, as one of my good friends, who also has a similar eye condition, got his.

I'd love to make a career out of flying. I've got a wife, & a little girl on the way, and I'm coming up on my reenlistment window. My question is, how is the job market for fresh pilots? I've got a flight school lined up, but is it worth it?

I know I'm going to get the typical response of "If you want it bad enough, you'll find a way." Maybe thats all I really need to hear.


Damn, you guys really are good! Didn't even have to say thing.

My honest opinion is that pilot salaries are, to the best of my knowledge, not good enough (these days) that I would spend money on the training in pursuit of a pilot career. I would pursue a tech sector career and use your healthy disposable income to enjoy a flying hobby.

If you really want to fly big metal and that's your thing, that's another story.

X2 -unless you're willing to suffer with no guarantee of a real life for you and your family, I agree with Zzz. Get yourself a good paying job in the tech field and use your spare money to play with airplanes as a hobby. I am the exception rather than the rule and consider myself to be quite lucky to have ended up where I am career wise. Most of my peers have watched their careers stall at most of the Legacy carriers and will be lucky to make Captain on a narrow body aircraft very late near retirement. Corporate jobs are rather uncertain as well as you're at the whims of the CEO and board. I have several friends who though they had it made flying the G-5 with a nice comp. package. Their job went away practically overnight and left them in the cold with very little to show for all their effort. Flying jobs tend to be very hard on marriages as well. Just my 2cents - 20,000+ hr ATP Int. Wide-body skipper.

On the other hand....

If your dream is to fly, and you're willing to do whatever to make it happen, why are you asking this question? The naysayers will be at you like junkyard dogs the entire way, using crap like logic and common sense to stop you. If it's burning a big hole in your center, like it did me and a bunch of other guys on here, you will never be truly happy until you do it.

A spouse may, or may not, understand, and little kids are flexible and happy no matter what. All a matter of priorities.

My flying life will be 43 years this summer. 19K total hours with 15K of those in single engine Cessna's, 10K+ in Cessna 207's... So that shows ya how far up the ladder I went. But, it was on purpose. Every time I moved up towards going "legit" and bigger iron, I hated it and left. And then I'd go off and wander other careers for a while until the right wild hair came along, and back to Alaska to fly Sleds I'd go.

My last five years up there were as lead pilot for Yute Air in Kotzebue. One or two airplanes, a nice pilot house, and me 'n Hoser the Wonder Dog flying bypass mail and freight. Very simple, about as much freedom as possible for a commercial pilot, and a lifestyle that most would hate, but I loved.

And I know the story is the same for tons of airline guys, corporate guys, ag guys, etc... Figure out your dream and then go do it. As this age thing creeps up on me, I'm sure regretting the stuff I didn't do a shitload more than the dumb stuff I did.

Gump

There is always some one to tell you not to do it. I am color blind and was told I could never fly do to it.
I am one for proving people wrong. Go for your dream and do what is best for you. Friends are people who will
encourage you to do such. NOT talk you out of it. There are ways around every thing and ever road block.
The only thing I can say is , starting is up to you. Hard work will pay off. Good luck , I hope you the best.

Ken in Alaska

I got nothin'...but wanted to say good luck figuring it out...

Before you get in too deep check out "so you want to be an airline pilot " on youtube. There is about 10 vids in a cartoon format, funny in a sad sort of way but very true also. Every commuter pilot will testify to this lifestyle.

Will your spouse/family be any happier if you are trapped in an 8 to 5 job you truly hate??

I tell every one of my students to chase their dream....wherever it takes you.

Re-read Gumps post.

MTV

I am seldom one to offer advice. If you see yourself as a corporate/airline pilot flying jets, you will get bored and the pay, lack of job security, and overall lack of excitement will probably not bring you happiness. If you can do something like Gump where the flying and the landscape is more interesting, I think it would be very fulfilling. I flew corporate aircraft for 20 years. I have not flown anything but my Husky for the last two years and I my love for flying increases daily.

I am not bitter in any sense and I have no regrets. I am just passing along how I feel at the moment.

Take it for what it is worth...

Thanks for the nuggets of wisdom, guys.

Basically, it boils down to two choices for me. Either stay in the Army, or get out & be a pilot. The pay isn't great with either, but as a soldier, I have certain benefits that are a big incentive. With that being said, out of the 3 years I've been with my wife, I may have gotten to see her for a total of 2 months, with 2 combat tours, and many weeks of field time, schools, etc. Why must I choose careers with high marital attrition rates?? haha

Honestly, my wife wants 2 things. She wants to live closer to her family, and she wants me to be safe. I told her she can have one or the other.

Also, I'd be using my GI bill to pay for the majority of my flight training.

mtv wrote:Will your spouse/family be any happier if you are trapped in an 8 to 5 job you truly hate??

Yes. Yes she would. lol. But thats only because I insist on doing something dangerous. I've already told my wife, my next job is going to be a crash test dummy.

Chase your dream, and encourage your wife to do the same. Everything else will work itself out.

I guess I'll throw my .02c in even though there is no right answer.
As far as employment goes the two big picture changes I've seen in the last 30 some years are 1. Accountants are running the show and 2. the various avenues of aviation employment are much more specialized. Back in the 60's and 70's almost every Chief Pilot was a WW2 veteran and hired almost exclusively ex-military pilots. In those days shooting an ADF or 4 course approach in a DC-4 was the same as shooting one in a B-17. Flying was flying. Into the 80's came more civilian pilots and more regulations and the percentages changed. As an extreme example even with 7000 hours in business jets there is no way I would be combat qualified in an F16 by this time next year (and vice versa, sorry Navy guys.)
Because of the evolution of aviation it is very hard to change tracks, i.e. military, airline, small airplane charter, corporate etc. Not impossible but hard. Each of those tracks has gotten so specialized the Chief Pilot does not want to spend the time to retrain a new hire.
Sad to say but a major airline will pretty much only hire somebody with 3000 total hours, 2000 in a Saab 340, bypassing somebody with 5000 hours in Learjets.
You, and your wife, will have to decide if you want the big bucks (FedEx, UPS, SWA) at the cost of being away from home 3 or 4 nights a week vs. being comfortable and gone 2 days a week but bouncing from job to job (corporate) vs. flying boxes for one of the FedEx/UPS feeders while being home every night but owning the same car for 15 years. (strange hours though). Basically for every $200,000 job there are 50 guys making $45,000 and 100 making $36,000. Don't get me wrong, there are good jobs in each category. It really helps to know somebody.
Basically find something you really like to do and make the best of it, whether it is flying for a living or flying as a hobby. In the end you'll probably spend all your money on wine, women and song and blow the rest.

Apexshot

No advice for you .......2 tours......just want to say "THANKS"

Find a college or university that offers aviation coursework AND a BS degree in a field you're interested in.

Chapter 33 GI Bill will pay for almost everything, including the flight training. Graduate, see what's out there, and don't like it, go back in the Army at higher pay as an officer. You both get a little taste of civilian life and still a fall back position.

And flying for a living is nowhere near as dangerous an occupation as the Army in a combat zone.

Finally, there are LOTS of jobs out there that use airplanes besides airlines and corporate. Look around some while you're in school and you'll likely find something that winds your watch. If nothing else,start a business that uses airplanes in support.....

Lots of options, but don't pass up that Chapter 33 benefit.

MTV

I've been flying for the Navy for 20+ years and know a lot of guys that fly for the airlines.

I don't recommend flying for the military right now. Things are getting pretty bad with continuing resolutions, sequestration preparations, and significant funding cuts for the past 3+ years. Even if the pressure eases right now, it'll take about 4 or 5 years to get past the challenges we are battling.

Most of the guys flying for the airlines consider it just a job: just driving the bus. More days off during the month that a 9-5 but a lot of time away from home during holidays especially for the new guys. Those airline guys that love flying, do it in a Champ, One Design, C-180, etc, or build their own.

Most of the "experts" are saying that there is about to be a massive pilot shortage and employers are going to start hiring and in droves. That remains to be seen, but even to get hired as a commuter co-pilot you will have to have about 500-1000 hours with some multiengine and instrument time to be competitive. Plan on doing a lot of grunt-work flying to build your time while getting paid peanuts. Even the commuters pay peanuts. Check out the pay scales for each airline here: http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines.html .

After several years and a few thousand hours you can apply for the airlines and start at the bottom of the food chain making chump change again for a year or two. Then the money starts rolling in...kind of. Another consideration is domicile. If you don't want to live near your airline's domicile, you'll be commuting for every trip. I've got a bud that flies for FedEx (Memphis) but lives in Montana.

To be frank, except for getting shot at and schwacking the bad guys, I am 100 times more satisfied flying my Pacer than flying Uncle Sam's iron.

This isn't all gloom and doom. If you are willing to tighten the belt for a decade and get your chops in the industry, then flying for the airlines is a good job, can be an adventure, and eventually make some good money. I think, however, with your military experience, you can land a good job getting paid a living wage, gain experience, and have a more stable base for your family. You'll still have to make your chops, gain experience and advance yourself.

But that's the perspective of a 43 year old with 25 years of being on the gub'min dole.

apexshot wrote:..... it boils down to two choices for me. Either stay in the Army, or get out & be a pilot.....

Of course, I don't know your situation, but you seem to have really limited yourself. How about a third choice? -- be a (blank) for a living, and just fly for fun. (fill in the blank with carpenter, fireman, butcher, baker, candlestick maker-- or even career army)
That was my choice when I got into flying at age 38 & I've never regretted it.

If you really want to take the fun out of something, do it as a job. Don't do aviation if you think it will be a high-paying career choice. Personally, I didn't recommend it to either of my kids. I find myself, now later in life, making more money as a geologist. I've been fortunate to have been a, military pilot, research pilot, professional pilot, inspector, owner of aviation businesses for many years now. I see the aviation business in general any steep decline. This is caused by several factors. The cost of fuel, the cost of insurance, and over regulation by ill-informed regulators. In 10 years our aviation system will be reduced to the pathetic state that Europe's general aviation is in at the moment.

Pick a decent well-paying career path. Make plenty of money, buy a plane, enjoy flying. Just remember as a professional pilot, you are one flight physical away from involuntary retirement at any time.

The problem with seeking advice like this is that everyone's idea of 'passion' is different, as is everyone's idea of pay...
Some people are content to dream, others are restless till the dream comes to life.

Yesterday I woke up early and put out 5 loads of herbicide by 10 am. This might be an hours pay for some people, but it is a weeks pay for many. Then my sweetheart and I climbed in the cub to show some guests some of the cool spots on the lower Colorado River. They were in their own plane (a pretty slick Bearhawk) and after an hour or so of island hopping and Mesa tops, we headed for home. Had to run to town to drop some plane parts off in the big city, so we made it a quick run in the 180....
Got all that done in time to get back by 6:pm and get back in the Thrush for another 13 loads....

I'd say flying is about as much a part of my life as walking... It has been since I left the military as well, but it took me 20 years in another career to figure out I could put work and flying together and still make a reasonable living and really enjoy what I do.

About the only useable advice I could give someone about this racket is this;
Being successfully in most of today's flying regimes is about 99% based on how well you apply yourself. Hours and training might get you in some of the entry level stuff, but if you want to get anywhere farther than that you are going to have to be really good at making yourself 'desirable' ... 1000hr (heck, 5000hr) pilots are a dime a dozen...

Take care, Rob

mtv wrote:Find a college or university that offers aviation coursework AND a BS degree in a field you're interested in.

Chapter 33 GI Bill will pay for almost everything, including the flight training. Graduate, see what's out there, and don't like it, go back in the Army at higher pay as an officer. You both get a little taste of civilian life and still a fall back position.
MTV

I'm actually the guy who posted a month or so ago about aviation degrees. My plan, if I get out, is to use my GI bill for flight school. I want to use my GI bill on the flight school because its expensive. If I can do that, and then go back to school for a business degree, I think that would be a perfect combination.

hotrod150 wrote:

apexshot wrote:..... it boils down to two choices for me. Either stay in the Army, or get out & be a pilot.....

Of course, I don't know your situation, but you seem to have really limited yourself. How about a third choice? -- be a (blank) for a living, and just fly for fun. (fill in the blank with carpenter, fireman, butcher, baker, candlestick maker-- or even career army)
That was my choice when I got into flying at age 38 & I've never regretted it.

I've considered lots of things, but those are my two biggest choices as this point. Other thing I've heavily considered is A&P. It'd at least get me around airplanes, so thats a step in the right direction in my book!

It seems to me that there's a little cart before the horse going on here. Pass your physical first, then decide if aviation is a career choice. If you can't pass the physical for whatever reason, then that ends that choice. If you can, then you've gotten a lot of good advice here, but it's still a decision that only you can make.

Cary