So right now Im leaning towards the bearhawk or patrol. Who owns one?

I've got all the plans, drawings, CD's, manuals, and newsletters here in town if you want a look see.

Tadpole wrote:I've got all the plans, drawings, CD's, manuals, and newsletters here in town if you want a look see.

I do I do.

This link is to Google Maps showing where a lot of builders of Bearhawk's and Patrol's are located. Since it is only maintained by the builders, I'm sure it's far from complete or fully up to date.

http://bearhawkbuilder.com/

About a week ago there was an 80% complete BH Kit for sale just north of Salt Lake City, UT. I think I saw it on Barnstormers.

Also, there are several yahoo builders groups for Bearhawks and Patrols. These links are to 2 of them:

http://dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/bearhawkqbkit/

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/BH-PATROL/

I live in BFE (clue, that is not an airport identifier), but if anyone is interested and manages to make it here, we can go for a flight. I really don't need much of an excuse to fly. I'm based at KEKO.

Thank BR.

I had a Uncle that lived out by you for a while. Now he's in Vegas. I'd tell you his name but his kids were rather rambunctious and you may not talk to me after.

Accurate building times are always all over the chart, everyone keeps track in different ways. I always figure at the end of that day, if I was charging, how many hours could I bill for and still sleep at night? Some I suspect figure all the time spent thinking how to do a particular step, I just figure the time spent actually DOING, and do not count false starts or fixing screwups, and if you don't think there will be any of those

My second S-7 came in AROUND 750 hrs and 43 K (2007), with some extra optional items adding maybe 50 hours. It'd cost more now.

Mine is a good looker from 20' away, a good looker from 6" away will take longer.

madpilot wrote:So with the stick and rudder issue being settled. I'm leaning toward a plane similar to a Husky. All I need is a two placer, good hauling capability, would also prefer it to be IFR capable. Not really for IMC conditions more for the ability to stay current. Kit recommendations?

Would love the experience of building, and would do it piece meal starting soon than my five year plan. However buying is still an option and husky and muale are at the top. Operating cost comparison anybody?

One thing I'm worried about, concering the patrol is making it IFR capiable. Doesn't seem like there is enough room for IFR instruments. The bearhawk even seems a bit small in the panel.

madpilot wrote:

madpilot wrote:So with the stick and rudder issue being settled. I'm leaning toward a plane similar to a Husky. All I need is a two placer, good hauling capability, would also prefer it to be IFR capable. Not really for IMC conditions more for the ability to stay current. Kit recommendations?

Would love the experience of building, and would do it piece meal starting soon than my five year plan. However buying is still an option and husky and muale are at the top. Operating cost comparison anybody?

One thing I'm worried about, concering the patrol is making it IFR capiable. Doesn't seem like there is enough room for IFR instruments. The bearhawk even seems a bit small in the panel.

There is more room on the Bearhawk panel than I'd ever need. I think you can have quite a capable IFR panel in the Patrol as well. If I end up building my Bearhawk, it will be IFR and I'll have more than enough room. I have tons of photos somewhere here of different Bearhawks and panels.

Got this back from the great people at bearhawk. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your interest in our Bearhawk and Patrol kits. The answer to your question is: "It depends" I ways tell people that fuel burn is a result of where you put the throttle. On a 250 horespower Bearhawk you can burn 9.5 GPH (125 mph) or 12.25 GPH (145 mph). On a 180 hp Bearhawk you can burn 7.5 GPH at about 115 mph. The 180 hp Patrol has less usefull load but will burn about 8 GPh at 140 mph.

It sounds like, given your mission profile, I would tend to steer you more towards the 4-place Bearhawk. Even if you decide to put in a 180 hp engine, it's still a heavy hauler and gets great fuel mileage. The usefull load on a bearhawk with a Lycoming O-360 and fixed picth prop is approximately 1300 lbs. With the O-540 and constant speed prop, you are looking at 1,100 lbs useful load. Also, the Bearhawk has a bigger panel for IFR and might be just slightly more stable in turbulence than Patrol.

The Patrol with an O-360 would have a useful load of about 900 lbs if you build it light. The Patrol will have about the same fuel burn as a similarly equipped 4-place lightly loaded but is a bit faster.

Both the Patrol and Bearhawk are suitable for back country flying. They both have STOL capability and plenty of power for getting out those back country, high altitude grass strips. They are of very rugged design and can withstand the harsh conditions of back country flying. Outside visibiloity is excellent and if you are into photography you can fly with the windows open for the perfect shot.

I hope this answers your questions. If I can answer any further questions, my direct email and phone contact information is listed below. I have also attached a couple of brochurtes on our 4-place as well as the Patrol. Let me know if I can help.

Exploring aircraft possibilities is great fun. After that fun gets serious, my advice is put the company literature aside and go find one close enough to fly and find another one under construction and take a look at the kit, its quality, completeness and what will be required of you. Spend some time with the builder to find out what it takes in time, space and finances. I don't mean just asking about hours logged of forward progress, I mean time spent in building jigs, special tools, and learning the skills of welding, fabric or riveting and the time spent in do overs because this is your first time and how much of it requires a partner to work with. This is the stuff that doesn't end up logged in hours on company promo material but is paid for in years of your life. That info is not shared in a passing conversation or a few online threads but usually IS shared when the owner you are talking to realizes how serious you are about taking the plunge. Some kits can be so much scratch building they hardly resemble a kit at all. And yet, some people get bit so hard with the building bug it hardly slows them down. To others it becomes a downright discouraging, drug out, unfinishable task that challenges those who really just wanted to get in the air or those who might suffer from short attention span and immediate reward syndrome. So KNOW THYSELF and what you can do too. Completing a homebuilt is as much about getting the balance right between your personal and family limits of time, money and skills, as it is about which plane you want.
You know it will be a backcountry type.

Dirtstrip is 100% right. And I will add a tiny tidbit, realize that life happens. It has a way of unexpectedly giving you other things that have priority over your plane. Kids, wive, house and other issues seem to compound as you get older and your time for yourself gets wittled away little by little.
I am currently on hold with a kit I started a few years ago. In the meantime kids have graduated, gone off to college, I started a house and medical issue are creeping up on me. I don't mean any of this to disuade you just another thing you should throw into your hat of pros and cons of building. By the way, I already have a plane to fly so that helps with those days when a person just needs to get out and relieve a little stress.
Good luck in what ever you choose to do.
WW

Hey madpilot, there's a guy building a Patrol about 25 miles NE of the Springs. I think he just finished the wings. If you want to take a look at one, he might be your guy. I think he's planning on having it finished by mid summer.

mountainmatt wrote:Hey madpilot, there's a guy building a Patrol about 25 miles NE of the Springs. I think he just finished the wings. If you want to take a look at one, he might be your guy. I think he's planning on having it finished by mid summer.

I didn't know that. I know a guy NE of the Springs building a Bearhawk for the last several years.

Got this back from the great people at bearhawk. Any thoughts?

The fuel burn & speed numbers are very close to what I get in my 250 hp BH. I'm at 9gph@125mph and 13gph@145mph, 14gph@150+mph. Of course that depends on altitude, but no point in going too high, although I've done x-countrys up to 17,500ft. It gets there easily.

madpilot, this is NV where almost anything goes so no problem if want to share your realatives name. Heck, maybe I used to have a few cold ones with them...

Bye the way, there are 4 BH kits in Elko. One currently flying (mine), one that has flown with an auto conversion (switching to LS1), one with the wings completed and working on the fuselage, and one with the wings almost done and fuselage not started. If you're out this way I can likely arrange for you to see all 4 and talk with the builders.

I've built two experimentals now. I built them because I wanted a new plane that fit my particular flying style. You will have that too but are you willing to wait 3, 5, 7, or 10 years for it. That's how long some of my friends took to build their planes. If you enjoy building things and challenges, and you're patient, it can be a very rewarding experience. If you are not all those, it can be frustrating.

If you want to fly, buy. If you can wait, then build.

svanarts wrote:I've built two experimentals now. I built them because I wanted a new plane that fit my particular flying style. You will have that too but are you willing to wait 3, 5, 7, or 10 years for it. That's how long some of my friends took to build their planes. If you enjoy building things and challenges, and you're patient, it can be a very rewarding experience. If you are not all those, it can be frustrating.

If you want to fly, buy. If you can wait, then build.

Thanks for the info svanarts. I do think building would be a good fit for me. The plane is to have a plane in five years. Which means I'm looking at buying the kit or fist part of the kit in two to three years. Not a big rush. I like building things and it is something I've wanted to do for a long time.

madpilot wrote:So with the stick and rudder issue being settled. I'm leaning toward a plane similar to a Husky. All I need is a two placer, good hauling capability, would also prefer it to be IFR capable. Not really for IMC conditions more for the ability to stay current. Kit recommendations?

Would love the experience of building, and would do it piece meal starting soon than my five year plan. However buying is still an option and husky and muale are at the top. Operating cost comparison anybody?

Just get it over with and buy the Maule. You won't regret it!

ReddingRob

ReddingRob wrote:

madpilot wrote:So with the stick and rudder issue being settled. I'm leaning toward a plane similar to a Husky. All I need is a two placer, good hauling capability, would also prefer it to be IFR capable. Not really for IMC conditions more for the ability to stay current. Kit recommendations?

Would love the experience of building, and would do it piece meal starting soon than my five year plan. However buying is still an option and husky and muale are at the top. Operating cost comparison anybody?

Just get it over with and buy the Maule. You won't regret it!

ReddingRob

I would take a maule if I could do it for under 35,000 ready to fly. Depending on what operating costs are.

The main question for me is, "if I buy an experimental, how much work can I do on it, compared to what I can do on a certified airplane?"

My uninformed understanding is that an IA still has to do a condition inspection yearly, but that you can still do maintenance and maybe even modifications.

The main reason that I would build an airplane is to gain the privileges of being able to work on it/modify it. but if I could buy one from someone that is skilled in building (READ: some one that would likely build it better than I)and end up paying them 50 cents an hour for building it, and still be able to work on it, I would go that route. What exactly are the limitations on an owner who has an experimental?

Although I think I'm a flyer and not a builder, I've been getting the itch to build lately.

Also, when you build an airplane, what dictates the gross weight? The kit supplier?

Paul

You don't need an IA for the annual condition inspection, only an A&P, and all the folks that have second hand homebuilts do ALL the work foe the most part and just have their A&P buddy sign them off. Minor mods are common and, again, my understanding is that the A&P needs to simply sign them off.