Backcountry Pilot • Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

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Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:14 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

jaguar56 wrote: That seems to be a problem with people transitioning. They think they have flared enough then they touch the nosewheel. It's stiff, so it bounces. Then it bounces again, then it hits the prop. If you have the right speed and flare properly that won't happen.


Welcome to every landing in a tailwheel... :lol:

And welcome to the BackCountry Pete & Paul...
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Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:20 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

[quote]Welcome to every landing in a tailwheel... :lol:

[quote]

My only experience was in a Stearman. There was a guy in Lockhart, TX who used to train cadets in WWII. When his wife died he decided to purchase a Stearman. Not too long after he lost his ticket for medical reasons. So he would grab a local pilot to go with him so he could fly his plane. That was REAL flying. The Stearman felt so solid and sounded fantastic. But he would not really let me land :?

Some day I will be in a taildragger.
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Tue Aug 09, 2011 1:33 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

jaguar56 wrote:My only experience was in a Stearman. There was a guy in Lockhart, TX who used to train cadets in WWII. When his wife died he decided to purchase a Stearman. Not too long after he lost his ticket for medical reasons. So he would grab a local pilot to go with him so he could fly his plane. That was REAL flying. The Stearman felt so solid and sounded fantastic. But he would not really let me land :?

Some day I will be in a taildragger.


Call the fellows at Acro Air and tell them Chris sent you. They are located just East of Huntsville, AL on a grass strip (3M5) and offer TW training, unusual attitude recovery / aerobatic, and Stearman checkouts. You could fly the Cirrus over the MDQ which is only about 8nm NW of Moontown if you are not comfortable putting it on the grass.

I will be down there with our Stearman the third weekend of September for the annual Moontown Fall Fly In...always a good time with a lot of tailwheels, warbirds, and formation flying.
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Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:36 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

lowflybye, You and those Moontown guys would fit nicely at our Graham Field/Ohio Bush Planes fly in Sept 30 - Oct 2nd.
We always have 2-3 Stearmans and a cabin Waco. Spread the word if you would. Thank you.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8022
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Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:47 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

patrol guy wrote:lowflybye, You and those Moontown guys would fit nicely at our Graham Field/Ohio Bush Planes fly in Sept 30 - Oct 2nd.
We always have 2-3 Stearmans and a cabin Waco. Spread the word if you would. Thank you.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8022


I would love to make it ,but I am supposed to attend an Aerostar Owners convention in Tulsa that week and will not be home till Friday afternoon. If there are no major fires at home when I return I will try to head that way, but will be in the Maule as my wife works weekends and I will have to bring the kids along. I will see if James wants to join me with the Stearman and spread the word to the Moontown crew as well.
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Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:25 am

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

We had another Cirrus crash:

WEST LIBERTY, Ohio - The Ohio Highway Patrol said that a 51-year-old Logan County man was killed in a plane crash in a corn field Thursday morning.

The single-engine plane crashed west of West Liberty, Ohio, at the intersection of Township Roads 192 and 193.

Jeffery Watson of Bellefontaine was ejected and died when the aircraft crashed at about 11:20 a.m.

Witnesses reported seeing heavy smoke and flames.

Investigators said Watson was flying his 2004 Cirrus fixed-wing, single-engine plane from the Bellefontaine Municipal Airport to the James A. Rhodes Airport in Jackson County in southern Ohio.

The cause of the crash is under investigation.

Watch ONN and refresh ONNtv.com for the latest information.
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Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:38 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

John;

I flew over the site on the way home from Urbana MERFI fly-in on Saturday. Very small area and little evidence of skidding on the ground.

Jeffrey Watson was an agent of Windsor Property Management Co. and lived near Bellefontaine. He was a realtor and has several properties listed in the Jackson County area, so had business connections there. Ceiling at the time was 500 feet with ground visibility more than 5 miles.

My good friend, Bill Kauffman has an airstrip less than a mile west of the site and, until they had made the identification, was concerned it may have been him.

See you on the 1st.

Gene
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Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

I went through the Cirrus transition course in 2010 for IFR flight in a 2008 SR20. It was an extremely thorough course taught by a factory trained instructor.
I now have almost 100 hours in the SR20 and have never felt that it was a unsafe aircraft. It is stable in turbulence, lands easily in a crosswind and presents great situational awareness.
There are two dangers I do see in a Cirrus - one is specific to the airframe; the other is probably inherent in all glass panel (Technologically Advanced Aircraft."
1) the airplane requires diligent attention to airspeed upon landing. Too slow and it will drop very fast, ultimately biting you. Get near the posted stall speed and the factory trained instructor will turn green. There must be a reason the factory drummed that into them so fervently.
2) All that information being presented by the PFD & MFD whilst piloting could be darned distracting at first, and might lead one into a false sense of control in an aircraft that can rapidly move through the two most important things we are thinking about as pilots (the next two things we should be doing in our flight!).
TB2
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Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:06 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

4 killed in McHenry County plane crash

http://www.wgntv.com/news/wgntv-mchenry-county-plane-crash-nov26,0,5114491.story
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Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:54 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

It's really funny how I haven't read any of this thread until today, and I happened to witness an odd Cirrus pilot experience yesterday. It seems to be an event that follows some of the opinions that there are some not-so-advanced pilots flying an advanced airplane.

I was hesitant to post it because I have definitely had those days when it just wasn't my day, and I'm not the perfect pilot by any stretch....But, it just fit in with some of the early posts too well. I hate to make judgement, but this is how it all unfolded. The pilot was the only occupant.

The beautiful, silver SR 22 taxied, ran-up and departed rwy 16 right in front of me. My passengers and I noted how pretty and expensive of a machine was rolling out in front of us (from the seats of my '59 Skylane :lol:).

The following few minutes over the radio were something like this........(as much is quoted ver batum as memory allows)

Cirrus: "Tower, Cirrus XXXCharlieDelta is ready for takeoff."

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXXXCharlieDelta, the skyhawk in the pattern is left closed traffic...you may make left or right turnout, your choice. Clear for takeoff on rwy 16."

Cirrus: "Can you repeat that??"

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXXXCharlieDelta, the skyhawk in the pattern is left closed traffic...you may make left or right turnout, your choice. Clear for takeoff on rwy 16."

Cirrus: "OK, I'll go right."

I also take off and make right turnout. We were both heading west/northwest.

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXCharlie Delta, contact Houston Departure on 134.20."

A few seconds pass......

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXCharlie Delta, contact Houston Departure on 134.20."

A few more seconds pass......

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXCharlie Delta, do you read???" :evil:

Finally hear from the Cirrus

Cirrus: "Easterwood tower, don't I need to change frequencies???" :shock:

Easterwood tower: "Affirmative. I've tried to contact you...contact Houston Departure on 134.20." :evil: :evil: :evil:

I also go to Departure. That is where I hear this....

Houston departure: "Cirrus NXXXCharlieDelta, your VFR flight following indicated you would be climbing to 6500'. You're still climbing....you planning on going higher?"

Cirrus: "Departure, XCharlieDelta, uh, ya? Uh, I'm going to 8500. I must have been confused." :roll:

Houston departure: "Ok, XCharlieDelta, please advise any other changes. Maintain 8500."
Guess that climb performance just got away from him #-o .
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Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:51 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

RWM wrote:It's really funny how I haven't read any of this thread until today, and I happened to witness an odd Cirrus pilot experience yesterday. It seems to be an event that follows some of the opinions that there are some not-so-advanced pilots flying an advanced airplane.

I was hesitant to post it because I have definitely had those days when it just wasn't my day, and I'm not the perfect pilot by any stretch....But, it just fit in with some of the early posts too well. I hate to make judgement, but this is how it all unfolded. The pilot was the only occupant.

The beautiful, silver SR 22 taxied, ran-up and departed rwy 16 right in front of me. My passengers and I noted how pretty and expensive of a machine was rolling out in front of us (from the seats of my '59 Skylane :lol:).

The following few minutes over the radio were something like this........(as much is quoted ver batum as memory allows)

Cirrus: "Tower, Cirrus XXXCharlieDelta is ready for takeoff."

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXXXCharlieDelta, the skyhawk in the pattern is left closed traffic...you may make left or right turnout, your choice. Clear for takeoff on rwy 16."

Cirrus: "Can you repeat that??"

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXXXCharlieDelta, the skyhawk in the pattern is left closed traffic...you may make left or right turnout, your choice. Clear for takeoff on rwy 16."

Cirrus: "OK, I'll go right."

I also take off and make right turnout. We were both heading west/northwest.

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXCharlie Delta, contact Houston Departure on 134.20."

A few seconds pass......

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXCharlie Delta, contact Houston Departure on 134.20."

A few more seconds pass......

Easterwood tower: "Cirrus NXCharlie Delta, do you read???" :evil:

Finally hear from the Cirrus

Cirrus: "Easterwood tower, don't I need to change frequencies???" :shock:

Easterwood tower: "Affirmative. I've tried to contact you...contact Houston Departure on 134.20." :evil: :evil: :evil:

I also go to Departure. That is where I hear this....

Houston departure: "Cirrus NXXXCharlieDelta, your VFR flight following indicated you would be climbing to 6500'. You're still climbing....you planning on going higher?"

Cirrus: "Departure, XCharlieDelta, uh, ya? Uh, I'm going to 8500. I must have been confused." :roll:

Houston departure: "Ok, XCharlieDelta, please advise any other changes. Maintain 8500."
Guess that climb performance just got away from him #-o .


Clearly the Cirrus pilot had something else on his mind besides flying the plane? [-X
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Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:58 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

Money does not necessarily buy competence.

Cary
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Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

I just saw where 4 people died this morning in a SR20 accident. Was someplace from Indiana. The chute was out but it must have been too late.
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:29 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

In part due to that fatal(4), one guy at PoA, David White, went through NTSB archives and counted crashes and how many were fatal, over a certain period. Here's what he found:
There have been 66 fatals for 181 accidents in the A36, 31 fatals for 72 accidents in the V35, 90 fatals for 366 accidents in the mooney, and 70 fatals for 178 accidents in the Cirrus (with 127 of those being in the SR22)

Another member calculated the percentages:
A36 - 36%
V35 - 43%
Mooney - 24%
Cirrus - 39%

This is quite surprising, because the word on the street is that Cirrus is oh so dangerous, and that if you crash, those wing tanks always rupture and you burn. Well guess what, it's just not true. Cirrii may be getting a higher percentage of crashes per flight hour, but if you end crashing one, your chances of survival are about average for a travel-class single.
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:53 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

zaitcev wrote:In part due to that fatal(4), one guy at PoA, David White, went through NTSB archives and counted crashes and how many were fatal, over a certain period. Here's what he found:
There have been 66 fatals for 181 accidents in the A36, 31 fatals for 72 accidents in the V35, 90 fatals for 366 accidents in the mooney, and 70 fatals for 178 accidents in the Cirrus (with 127 of those being in the SR22)

Another member calculated the percentages:
A36 - 36%
V35 - 43%
Mooney - 24%
Cirrus - 39%

This is quite surprising, because the word on the street is that Cirrus is oh so dangerous, and that if you crash, those wing tanks always rupture and you burn. Well guess what, it's just not true. Cirrii may be getting a higher percentage of crashes per flight hour, but if you end crashing one, your chances of survival are about average for a travel-class single.


over a certain period.

Any idea how long this period was? Was it the same time period for all of the models? Just curious :-k
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:58 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

58Skylane wrote:Any idea how long this period was? Was it the same time period for all of the models? Just curious :-k

"all since 1/1/2000"
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=45813
-- Pete
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Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:14 pm

Re: Is It Me, Or Do A lot Die In Cirrus Crashes?

zaitcev wrote:
58Skylane wrote:Any idea how long this period was? Was it the same time period for all of the models? Just curious :-k

"all since 1/1/2000"
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=45813
-- Pete


Interesting! Would be even more interesting to have a break down of the most common F up of each model. Maybe the top 3 or 5 of each :-k Thanks for sharing that info. I'll check it out.
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