I want to purchased one of these portable jump starting units to carry in my plane in case I find myself with a hard starting engine and a worn down battery in a remote spot. I'm not a real wiz when it comes to electrical topics so I thought I would ask you folks before I shell out $$ for something. Having done a little bit of searching it seems I have two basic type choices, the somewhat bulky ones you find at your neighborhood auto parts store and then the new lightweight lithium units. My plane is a 59 172 with a newer Lycoming 0360 A1A which uses an alternator verses the original generator. It is a 14 volt system. I am a little wary of the lithium type due to possible fire hazard. Are my worries valid? I am leaning towards getting one of the regular automotive type with 1000 amp available for jump starting (about $80-90 with weight of 18lbs) which I could carry in the baggage compartment. I would appreciate any input from those who have used these or carry one of these in their plane. Thank you in advance. John

The EarthX ones we saw at the Airmen's show last May were REALLY small. IIRC they cost about $130

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/earthx-jump-pack

This is one of the things that made me rethink (reaffirm) my decision to go injected.

John

First off if you truly have an A1A, THEN there should be an impulse mag. in at least the left mag.
That means ya don't NEEDl a battery to start it or run it. But, you do need someone to teach you how to hand prop your plane to start it. Friend of mine had an AIA in his C-170 with NO starter.

You need someone - your mech. - to show you how to tell if there is an impulse mag.
If you have the damned "shower of sparks" little red box inside the firewall, Then ya need to do some minor conversion work. Tear out the red box and get an impulse mag at least on the left.

Now I have hand propped planes since I first started with my Champ on up to C-180s etc. Even tried with two of us to do an AN-2, takes at least two people to make that prop move.

My only different advise than a lots of folks who hand prop trykes is that I ALWAYS tied the tie down ring as close to the ground as possible so ya don't end up leaning you head into the prop arc.

Ask around yer hangarhood.

PS: If you do have the red box for the showere of sparks, then ya do NEED a battery.

Trim

I have only used the bulky type that I purchase at the local auto parts store. I carry one of these in the spray plane all summer long. It gets used to start a C-188 with the io-520 engine. I also use the battery booster pack to run the fuel pumps and chemical pumps at remote landing strips.

When I purchase one of these booster packs I generally try to get a 1200 or 1500 amp variety because they seem to lose power after awhile and I also use them to start pickups and etc. when they are not being used in the airplane. It is recommended that the battery packs I get be stored upright but they will fall over in the pickup and lay that way for days sometimes before I realize it. They also say to recharge immediately after use. . . I can't make that happen. I only get 5 years max out of the booster packs i buy before they get weak, dropped or broken.

You may want to look at where you are going to jump start the aircraft from, for example, are you going to remove the bat box cover and go directly to the battery or is there access to the master or start solenoid.

Trent

whynotfly wrote:I want to purchased one of these portable jump starting units to carry in my plane in case I find myself with a hard starting engine and a worn down battery in a remote spot. I'm not a real wiz when it comes to electrical topics so I thought I would ask you folks before I shell out $$ for something. Having done a little bit of searching it seems I have two basic type choices, the somewhat bulky ones you find at your neighborhood auto parts store and then the new lightweight lithium units. My plane is a 59 172 with a newer Lycoming 0360 A1A which uses an alternator verses the original generator. It is a 14 volt system. I am a little wary of the lithium type due to possible fire hazard. Are my worries valid? I am leaning towards getting one of the regular automotive type with 1000 amp available for jump starting (about $80-90 with weight of 18lbs) which I could carry in the baggage compartment. I would appreciate any input from those who have used these or carry one of these in their plane. Thank you in advance. John

I carry one of these for starting the O-540. It has about the same cold cranking amperage as the main battery, a PC-680 so it should do just fine. Started a car with it this weekend several times. Works great and only weighs about 2 lbs. I think charging or discharging lithiums carry's more risk than storage, at least with the new technology so I don't see any reason not to have one of these along in the plane.

http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-A8-18000mAh-UltraSafe-Portable/dp/B0185P14O2

Well hand propping is one thing flying home is a another.
Left the master on once when flying through BC Canada. It was an O300 in my 172. It started right up hand propping. The problem was my destination was a towered airport. The 172 had an alternator so I still had no power/ radios. I had to land at an uncontrolled airport and still find someone to jump start the plane.

I have had some of the big clunky Walmart do all jump starters. They do work but don't last long at all. The lead acid batteries tend to be dead just the time you need the thing.
We have a antigravity jump starter that gets used weekly jump starting customers cars. It works every time. It sometimes won't start a winter cold soaked diesel with dead bats. I wouldn't worry about the lithium battery. You don't on your I phone, laptop or anything else.

The AntiGravity Battery is an excellent backup choice. I've started both my C185 (IO520D) and a friends Carbon Cub with it. Worked flawlessly. You can read more here:

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/anti-gravity-micro-start-battery-16562

I use an EarthX as my cranking battery. Never had any problems. I'm sure their EarthX Jump Pack is an excellent product as well, I just hadn't heard of it when I learned of the AntiGravity Battery, in fact it might be better since it uses the same technology/safety as their cranking batteries.

http://earthxmotorsports.com/shop/earthx-jump-pack

This solution will probably only work for kit builders, i.e. experimental, but might offer ideas on those with GA aircraft. I have an EarthX lithium iron phosphate battery (LiFePO4), for my Rotax 912s, and I also have this Antigravity lithium ion battery jump starter to use as a jump start. It's hard to believe this starter pack will spin a 100 hp Rotax 912, but it easily does, as well as start the 360 V8 in my 79 Jeep, and my 54 Farmall tractor.

What I did on my Zenith 750 build was route a lead thru the firewall and put an E5 connector on it, which allows me to plug in my starter pack inside the cabin and start the Rotax without having to take the cowling off or have an exterior port to mess with cables, etc. Simple and safe.

A quick note, the lithium ion batteries are the ones that have a problem with catching on fire, the lithium iron phosphate do not. I don't see this being a problem with a starter pack, however.

I use a 900A Lithium pack. Weighs around 2lbs and has not let me down yet. Prop swings through just like a fresh battery. Works on the duramax as well. Charge it up with the cigarette lighter once the vehicle is running and then put it away. I keep it in my wife's vehicle when we aren't flying. I would never go back to the old booster pack, as mentioned they always seem dead about the time you need them.

I can't comment for aviation use, but I've carried them in every other car or boat I've ever owned and have used them countless times, both on my own vehicles and friends'. I've always bought the big heavy one with a sealed lead-acid gel-cell inside and don't know anything about the new lithium-ion ones. I think I paid around $50 for mine, though they seem to be more expensive these days. It's not essential to recharge the battery immediately after use, but you should avoid storing it for long periods while discharged, as that'll ruin the battery (they are easy to replace - you can buy a new battery on Amazon or a local store like Batteries Plus). I should point out that "use" is not jump-starting your plane once, use is jump-starting it a bunch of times, leaving the light on, or filling a tire with the air compressor. The amount of energy that comes out from a single jump start is almost negligible. Note that the batteries are sealed, so the unit can be stored in any orientation without leakage. And I highly recommend getting one with a built-in air compressor for filling tires, though the unit in mine failed after 8 years or so. It's also handy if they have a lighter plug, so you can charge electronic devices in your tend and whatnot.

Ethan

I agree with your idea of "use" Ethan. The lithium ones can be used for many jump starts. I have never tested how many as I don't like killing my batteries that often. Having a built in aircompressor would be handy, but I think you could carry a lithium pack and compressor with less weight penalty.
David

And if you're still concerned with a battery fire, here's a little piece of mind...

http://amzn.com/B005Q3U7BS

PAMR MX

Do not understand why you needed an uncontrolled airport. I have made several NORDO landings at towered fields. The old light system worked fine One was even in BC somewhere south of Ft. Nelson at a field with perpendicular runways. The only problem at the BC a/p was that it was the first time I ever got a go away and come back RED - twice. Turned out the first red was for some local who was used to taking off whenever and in any direction he chose. Second one turned out to be a 737 on downwind as I was coming back in on the 45. Found the BC controllers and Wx folks to be the best. This was back in 1982.

Chris C

PAMR MX wrote:Well hand propping is one thing flying home is a another.
Left the master on once when flying through BC Canada. It was an O300 in my 172. It started right up hand propping. The problem was my destination was a towered airport. The 172 had an alternator so I still had no power/ radios. I had to land at an uncontrolled airport and still find someone to jump start the plane.

That doesn't make sense to me

The alternator is normally used for charging the battery and supplying power to the electrical system.The mags run the ignition.
So unless your battery was dead as a doornail or disconnected, you should still have radios once the engine was running.The only difference would be whether the starter or your hand got the prop going,after that it should be much the same.

I don't see how jump starting the plane would make a difference?

Please tell me if I'm missing some point in the plane's system.

Alternators require a voltage to energize the field. Otherwise they won't work. If the battery is too low to supply this, you need an external power source to light off the alternator.

First, turn your rotating beacon or your strobes ON and LEAVE them on. Like always. If you fail to turn off the master, you MAY notice all those lights flashing as you prepare to depart.......cheap and easy. Also, as soon as you energize the master for the next start, the lights come on, letting people in the area know that something is about to happen.

A good habit.

Second, get with someone who is experienced hand propping airplane engines, and learn the process, safely.

Finally, buy one of the tiny lithium battery packs previously noted here, then carry it with you. BUT, before you have to jump start for real, practice doing so at home, so you know how it's done SAFELY. Many planes have batteries mounted forward, and there are risks associated with jump starting those.

Now you have several solutions.

A bonus with the little jump packs is they'll recharge your phone/IPad, etc many times while camping.

MTV

wannabe wrote:...Second one turned out to be a 737 on downwind as I was coming back in on the 45. ...

Coming back on the 45 would have bamboozled them for sure, no wonder you got a red light. Nobody does 45's outside the US.

Some helicopter operators of the AW139 carry a portable lithium pack if they ever have to start them away from a GPU, though the rest of us got by being really careful with battery management before start and after shutdown. As always, you trade weight and payload for peace of mind.

At least for anything other than stone dead you can handprop a piston airplane. Even got my girlfriend to do it once, painted nails, wet grass, tight skirt, heels, fuel-injected high-compression IO-360....

"Even got my girlfriend to do it once, painted nails, wet grass, tight skirt, heels, fuel-injected high-compression IO-360..." Quite a description of the girlfriend.

I have no experience with the lighter lithium thingies (yet), but I carried one of the heavier lead acid jump starters on my boat trip back in 2001 (The Ultimate Small Boat Adventure--still only $15.95 at B&N or Amazon ). I used it to start the outboard backup motor a few times, but it never had enough poop to swing the main engine very long, at all. It would start spinning quickly, but unless the main engine started immediately, it would run down pretty fast. So it was more effective to start the outboard, then use its alternator to charge up the main battery, and then start the main engine. These all occurred when I had to lay over a few days due to weather and ran down the main battery using lights and radios.

With a 12/14v system, unless you're really alone in the boondocks, jump starting with the local pickup truck is the easiest and the safest. However, with an impulse coupler on one of the mags, swinging a 360's prop to start is pretty easy, unless the engine is cold soaked. If you're all alone, make sure the airplane is thoroughly tied down and chocked--not a few airplanes have gotten away, when the throttle was open farther than the "prop swinger" expected. And if you've never hand-propped any airplane, best to get some training before you're really needing to do it.

Cary

Waiting for a picture of the 'girlfriend' or it didn't happen!

CamTom12 wrote:Alternators require a voltage to energize the field. Otherwise they won't work. If the battery is too low to supply this, you need an external power source to light off the alternator.

Thanks for the bit of information,makes sense now.