This past Sunday there was a fly-in breakfast at Bradford (N27) which is about a one hour flight for me. Since I had not been there before I thought it would make a nice morning jaunt. So I call my buddy Tim V, who has a Champ, and we arrange to fly up together. At the airport we prop Tim V's Champ and let him get a head start while my son Tim goes with me in the Maule.

Bradford has a 4,300 ft paved runway running 5/23 that is set next to a river in between two hills. When we arrive there are a fair number of planes landing so we annouce where we are and wait our turn before entering a left crosswind for 5. I announce the crosswind and as soon as I let go of the mic button a Cherokee announces they are on crosswind! This is the first I heard this guy. I look around and don't see him so I get back on the radio and ask if he has the Maule in sight. He says that he does not and asks where I am. Uh-oh!

I reply that I am right off the end of the runway. He says that is where he is. Crap! A high wing/low wing situation! I am betting this guy is right above me! Well, one of us has to do something. I get back on the radio and tell him to hold altitude and I am going to exit straight out of the pattern to the west. No reply! I shove the throttle in and head West. I make a big loop and return. I never hear another thing from the Cherokee and do not see him land.

Just another day and another experience.

Wouldn't it be funny if he had been at a different airport that shared the same CTAF freq?

I know exactly what you're talking about though...those position calls from other aircraft that seems to describe exactly your position. The hair on your neck stands up.

Have had a similar experience happen 3 times at least and all of them at a towered airport.

1. in the pattern at night on downwind (right after getting my license in 87) 115 hp Citabria with minimal lighting appeared in front of me on the downwind going extra slow with lots of fast moving airplanes around. Saw him at the last minute and peeled off to the north, circled and came back in to the pattern. Tower was unaware any of it had happened. (was in a Beech Sport... and all that entails...)

2. Five or six airplanes on final approach to 27L There was supposed to be a Bonanza #2 for the runway in front of me, but when it turned out to be a Baron and the Bonanza was calling from behind... YIKES!! I looked right, saw no one on the approach to 27R (don't know why) and peeled out of there. I don't remember what happened after that other than I somehow was put back in line after a lot of confusion on everybody's part. I doubt the guys in the tower ever did figure out who was landing and in what order.

3. Coming in from the south, tower cleared me to expect Rnwy 9. Arrow or a Saratoga (don't remember other than it was a bigger Cherokee) calls in that he's also approaching from the south at the same altitude I am. Tower clears him in to 9 and asks if he has the Cub? No, he doesn't have the Cub but is looking... 10 seconds later the Tower asks if he has the Cub? No, he doesn't and is looking... Another 10 seconds or so, Tower, more concerned this time, asks if he has the Cub? No he doesn't, still looking... another 5 to 10 seconds Tower controller's voice comes across high pitched and anxious, "Cherokee do you have the Cub?" at that point (sweating) I just keyed the mike and said, "THE CUB IS HEADING FOR THE GROUND!" So immediately dove for the safety of the trees...whew!! Never did see the Cherokee and eventually resurfaced and got back into the flow.

See and avoid... (was departing locally a couple days ago when a Nordo Citabria - lit up like Christmas - landed in front of me. Saw and avoided...

Great write up! While on the topic I know this has been beat to death but my number one pet peeve when jaunting around to small airfields are people having a BS session on the CTAF. Until recently we shared ours with 3 other airports and on a busy Sunday it was pretty much useless because it was nothing but people stepping on each other or Billy Bob and Uncle Joe spending 15 minutes trying to decide where they were going for coffee that morning. We finally got our freq moved to 122.725 from 22.8 and it's MUCH better now. Now all we need to do is get people to actually read the notams or get a current chart so they are on the right frequency when they arrive. It's been 8 months and I still flip flop back and forth between .725 and .8 because people are still using the old freq. Off my soapbox..flying professionally for a living makes me expect too much sometimes I guess... Keep your eyes peeled out there!

AvidFlyer wrote:Great write up! While on the topic I know this has been beat to death but my number one pet peeve when jaunting around to small airfields are people having a BS session on the CTAF. Until recently we shared ours with 3 other airports and on a busy Sunday it was pretty much useless because it was nothing but people stepping on each other or Billy Bob and Uncle Joe spending 15 minutes trying to decide where they were going for coffee that morning. We finally got our freq moved to 122.725 from 22.8 and it's MUCH better now. Now all we need to do is get people to actually read the notams or get a current chart so they are on the right frequency when they arrive. It's been 8 months and I still flip flop back and forth between .725 and .8 because people are still using the old freq. Off my soapbox..flying professionally for a living makes me expect too much sometimes I guess... Keep your eyes peeled out there!

It took two years after our freq change before the wrong freq calls diminished.

With the recent silver UFO story and this tower talk, here is one of my stories. I was turning south on a pipeline toward the Shipping Port nuclear plant. I contacted Pittsburgh approach control for a squawk code. I have to have previously contacted the nuke plant with a time window and other information to make this weekly pass over that plant

Still about 5 miles north of Shipping Port nuke plant, the controller lady calls me with ‘traffic 1:00, two miles and at 1500 feet.’ I’m at 1600 msl (500 agl) looking. It’s clear and sunny, but I see nothing. I reply no joy.

Next thing she calls, ‘traffic now 12:30 a mile and a half, not sure of direction of flight’ (which seems weird). Still I see nothing, no joy.

Once again, she calls my N number, ‘traffic 12:00, one mile, now 1400 feet’. I’m still at 1600 looking around like Linda Blair. I swear there’s nothing out there. This is a dense area of wooded hill sides. I’ve convinced myself that they have a glitch in the radar.

Now, I get this panic call, ‘targets are converging.’ And once again, ‘targets are converging’. Hey, I’ve got both hands gripping the stick and my but has sucked up about 2/3’s the seat cushion waiting for the impact. Nothing.

Now I’m just about at the nuke plant, and she calls me. The plane is directly under you at 1400 feet! In my narrow scout, I can look straight down on both sides, and there is nothing there.

As I cross the Ohio River and make my 90 degree turn around the nuke plant, Pittsburgh calls again saying that ‘the traffic has turned back north’.

I take another look, still see nothing. I tell my lady controller that that was weird. She replies, ‘that’s what we were all thinking here??'

Avid I get your frustration with the motormouths.There are a lot of non-tower airports around here and when everyone gets yakking you can't get a position report out when you really need to.I just left a message at the FSDO for the safety manager to discuss this very subject.I am sick of hearing " ah ah this is ah thumbupmybutxxxx ah I think ah I am 9.73 mi to the S and ah going to pass over at 2800 at ah 130knots ah traffic advisories please"

I had an interesting one a couple weeks ago in Maine.I was about 5mi south of Auburn/Lewiston(non-tower) and would be passing overhead fairly close to the airport at 2500ft well above their pattern.I was on their CTAF and heard a woman pilot in a 210 say she was 6 to the south and would be entering 45 to the downwind for 03.I watched from above as she called the pattern.Thing is she never flew it,just timed the calls and made a straight in. I probably should have called her on it but to be honest I was so pissed I didn't think of it til well past the airport.

Two nights ago two pilots at a local airport were arguing over which direction to land and who was there first.

OK I am calm now

Bill

It's amazing that there are not more mid airs around non towered fields. Kind of makes you wonder how many close calls go unreported every year. That's the worst feeling in the world knowing your in the pattern with someone else and you don't know where they are or what they are going to do next.

willyb wrote:....I watched from above as she called the pattern.Thing is she never flew it,just timed the calls and made a straight in. ............

Unbelievable! What are people thinking?

willyb wrote:.I was on their CTAF and heard a woman pilot in a 210 say she was 6 to the south and would be entering 45 to the downwind for 03.I watched from above as she called the pattern.Thing is she never flew it,just timed the calls and made a straight in. I probably should have called her on it but to be honest I was so pissed I didn't think of it til well past the airport.

Wow, that's one of those things that's so incredibly flagrant that I can hardly believe it actually happened. People have pissed me off before but I've never even remotely considered reporting anyone to the FAA, however if I'd witnessed that I would have. Falsely reporting a position and knowingly being in a different position in close proximity to an airport would be grounds for action I'd imagine. I can't even say how I'd react on the ground. It would be ugly.

You hear some weird stuff out there. I really don't get the long straight-ins some people do in small airplanes at untowered airports when conditions are VFR. Is it really that big of a bother to fly the pattern?
Once this summer I heard a guy in a Lancair call "60 mile final" for McCall. I thought for sure I'd heard wrong, but sure enough a few minutes later he called "40 mile final."

If I recall the rules correctly you are not required to speak to anybody at a non-towered airport, much less broadcast your position. Go ahead and drop a dime if it'll make you feel better, but I imagine the voice on the other end will just agree with you and go on drinking coffee. That said, it sure doesn't make any sense why someone would actually call positions and not be there. Maybe adult ADD?

gb

gbflyer wrote:If I recall the rules correctly you are not required to speak to anybody at a non-towered airport, much less broadcast your position. Go ahead and drop a dime if it'll make you feel better, but I imagine the voice on the other end will just agree with you and go on drinking coffee. That said, it sure doesn't make any sense why someone would actually call positions and not be there. Maybe adult ADD?

Not making any radio calls would have been preferable...to false ones. I have a beef with stating that you're in one place while knowingly being in another. Like, fraudulently stating that you're crosswind when you're on a straight-in. I mean...that's just weird. If you're doing a straight-in, just say so. I almost want to say that maybe Willy missed something from his overhead view? I dunno, crazy.

Reminds me of the time my buddy and I left the high school parking lot talking on our CB's, and we got separated, but he told me that he was up ahead. A few minutes later he said he was at the community college and there was a huge brawl going on, and to hurry up so I could see it. I hauled ass, a lot faster than I should have, to see this big fight going on. I arrived, and couldn't find him anywhere. No big fight. Hardly anybody there. He finally rolled into the lot laughing, and had been behind me the whole time. To this day, I still laugh when i think about that.

I had to fly over to Nampa yesterday, and thought I was in communication (122.7) with all others in the area, and of course in addition was keeping my eyes open. I'd just called out my right hand downwind for 11 position, and then base when I got a call saying "we fly a left hand pattern here, I'll just orbit until you land". It (the voice) didn't sound excited or p.o'd, so I just thanked him and made the turn onto final short and tight and got down and clear ASAP. It had been some years since last in there, and the right hand pattern was the handiest way for me to get down, no mention in my updated Flight Guide, and other traffic I'd heard was either taking off or miles out, so no call outs for a left pattern. Best I can figure he was flying the left hand pattern and just monitering the freq (nothing wrong with that), no big deal, though I never heard him before the orbiting comment, and never did see him. Yeah, I too get tired of hearing someones life story over the radio, make it concise and quick, but also bad are transmissions with the first and last words clipped off....

1SeventyZ wrote:
Reminds me of the time my buddy and I left the high school parking lot talking on our CB's, and we got separated, but he told me that he was up ahead. A few minutes later he said he was at the community college and there was a huge brawl going on, and to hurry up so I could see it. I hauled ass, a lot faster than I should have, to see this big fight going on. I arrived, and couldn't find him anywhere. No big fight. Hardly anybody there. He finally rolled into the lot laughing, and had been behind me the whole time. To this day, I still laugh when i think about that.

That's funny right there, Z!! Sounds like something one of us yahoo truckers have said over the radio before

Oregon180 wrote:You hear some weird stuff out there. I really don't get the long straight-ins some people do in small airplanes at untowered airports when conditions are VFR. Is it really that big of a bother to fly the pattern?
Once this summer I heard a guy in a Lancair call "60 mile final" for McCall. I thought for sure I'd heard wrong, but sure enough a few minutes later he called "40 mile final."

The pilot in the Lancair is an idiot! The information in the AFD's on the the proper pattern for McCall, prohibits striaght-ins for McCall (unless the temp. tower is in use during the summer?)!!

Now I'll admitt that I've done some striaght-ins at nontowered airports if I'm heading striaght for the proper runway to land on (mostly only the ones with ASOS/AWOS). But I would clearly call my possition 10 out, 5 out, and if I don't hear or see any other aircraft I'll call out 4 mile final "traffic permitting". If I don't hear or see another aircraft, I'll proced on with my long final but be looking and hearing for other aircraft in the pattern. If I do hear or see another aircraft, I'll peel off and do the proper pattern procedure. I will always yield to aircraft already in the pattern!

Believe me I did not miss anything.She should have just called a straight in.I have no idea why she did what she did.This airport is pretty good size and lots of types of aircraft.It was not busy at the time.Maybe she really had to pee and wasn't thinking too clearly Been there.

Bill

courierguy wrote:....It had been some years since last in there, and the right hand pattern was the handiest way for me to get down, no mention in my updated Flight Guide....

The sectionals nowadays note if there's a right-hand pattern -- in the airport info under the name, it would say "RP 11" if 11 was in fact right traffic.
I don't care for straight-ins, even if I'm in a hurry I prefer a upwind entry over the field to eyeball the runway environment for dead airplanes, grazing cows, FAA inspectors, etc. I like mid-field crosswind entrues when applicable too, I think there's even safer than 45's regardless of what some folks say.
But I do try to make concise,accurate position reports when appropriate.

Eric

willyb wrote:Maybe she really had to pee and wasn't thinking too clearly Been there.

That can cloud one's judgement...

58 Skylane and Oregon-180

First I agree with 58 that there are not supposed to be any straight in approaches to McCall. At least not from the south.
However no one seems to bother the Citations and others similar planes.
Now, there is one Lancair up there that fit into a similar catagory, it is a 300 or so HP Turbine powered Lancair
Hopefully he was pulling someone's leg with "positions" reports.

cc