CFI,

Those are Dinner fish! The big ones stay in the water, to much for one or two meals!

Your 172 exp. if its a 180hp will give you a perfomance index, not quite as fast Stall 39kts, climb 700+ hot summer, 1000-1100 winter light, low alt cruise 105kts, higher alt cruise 110kts ( 8k DA). Its a draggy airplane and is a little alt. challanged, ceiling is supposed to be 14.5k, and I've had mine close but its a struggle. There are a few turbo 200s out there and of course they do better. I operate out of one lake in the cascade mtns @ 2.5k all summer and at near gross during summer ( DAs 3.2? ) thats 1 nm long with trees at the end, when its glassy and no head wind its enough .

The wing AD ( In MHO it was a BS deal by some people to sell parts ) is one time with a flashlight and mirror inspection @ annual, about 10min worth. Airs ( http://www.airinnov.com/ ) is one of the premier Lake shops, Paul was the enginner at Lake that developed the 200EP, 250 & 270T and has some 12k hours in the planes. His inspection check list is very exstensive aand covers it all.

The baggage is behind the rear seat, seat back tilts forward for access for small stuff, or for major packing seat lifts out in 2 min.held in by belts about 10lbs. Baggage box is about 4.5ft long and 34 inchs wide and 16 high, ( main fuel tank is above ). When out camping solo I slide the co-pilot seat forward all the way and actually can and do stretch out and sleep in there with my feet in the bag box ( No rear seat )

It actually is a pretty good rough turf airplane ( I probably just turned the heat on ) its slow stall and big trim tabs and elevator allow one to keep the small nose wheel off the dirt until very slow then drop it on and stop short. You can then taxi slow and careful watching for gopher an P dawg holes. Its not a Supercub or like but not bad and between water and turf, lots of opportunity presents its self.

Some of the strips I hit are in MT. Schafer, Meadow Creek, Spotted Bear. In ID Magee, Cavanaugh, Moose Creek. Also while not fast I make it from Watson Lake, the Yukon to Seattle in one day as long as its at least good IFR. ( I don't do hard IFR with it).

As irishc180 indicated ramp queens can be very intense restorations, they are quite complex for there size, and alot of it is hard to get at! Not like your 172! But for as complicated as they are they are quite durable. I've seen one that was bellied into an alfalfa field after an engine failure that required no more the the engine to be fixed and the alfalfa stains cleaned off the hull, absolutely no damage!!

As far as the accident rate, its almost always lack of training and proficency, its really not that difficult to fly well but it is different! The Lake community has a comprehensive syllabus that has significantly impacted the issue that was present back in the 70s-80s. A lot of the planes don't fly alot in the winter and few folks tend to jump in them and head to the wilds, with out working up to it in the spring. Guess what happens, just like alot of the spring accidents in other aircraft.

I've had mine for 11 years and about 1600 hours and can't imagine being with out it! But having a Cub or Scout in addition to get to places the Lake can't go would be GREAT

Hope I havn"t bored you, KAM

CFI,

Those are Dinner fish! The big ones stay in the water, to much for one or two meals!

Your 172 exp. if its a 180hp will give you a perfomance index, not quite as fast Stall 39kts, climb 700+ hot summer, 1000-1100 winter light, low alt cruise 105kts, higher alt cruise 110kts ( 8k DA). Its a draggy airplane and is a little alt. challanged, ceiling is supposed to be 14.5k, and I've had mine close but its a struggle. There are a few turbo 200s out there and of course they do better. I operate out of one lake in the cascade mtns @ 2.5k all summer and at near gross during summer ( DAs 3.2? ) thats 1 nm long with trees at the end, when its glassy and no head wind its enough .

The wing AD ( In MHO it was a BS deal by some people to sell parts ) is one time with a flashlight and mirror inspection @ annual, about 10min worth. Airs ( http://www.airinnov.com/ ) is one of the premier Lake shops, Paul was the enginner at Lake that developed the 200EP, 250 & 270T and has some 12k hours in the planes. His inspection check list is very exstensive aand covers it all.

The baggage is behind the rear seat, seat back tilts forward for access for small stuff, or for major packing seat lifts out in 2 min.held in by belts about 10lbs. Baggage box is about 4.5ft long and 34 inchs wide and 16 high, ( main fuel tank is above ). When out camping solo I slide the co-pilot seat forward all the way and actually can and do stretch out and sleep in there with my feet in the bag box ( No rear seat )

It actually is a pretty good rough turf airplane ( I probably just turned the heat on ) its slow stall and big trim tabs and elevator allow one to keep the small nose wheel off the dirt until very slow then drop it on and stop short. You can then taxi slow and careful watching for gopher an P dawg holes. Its not a Supercub or like but not bad and between water and turf, lots of opportunity presents its self.

Some of the strips I hit are in MT. Schafer, Meadow Creek, Spotted Bear. In ID Magee, Cavanaugh, Moose Creek. Also while not fast I make it from Watson Lake, the Yukon to Seattle in one day as long as its at least good IFR. ( I don't do hard IFR with it).

As irishc180 indicated ramp queens can be very intense restorations, they are quite complex for there size, and alot of it is hard to get at! Not like your 172! But for as complicated as they are they are quite durable. I've seen one that was bellied into an alfalfa field after an engine failure that required no more the the engine to be fixed and the alfalfa stains cleaned off the hull, absolutely no damage!!

As far as the accident rate, its almost always lack of training and proficency, its really not that difficult to fly well but it is different! The Lake community has a comprehensive syllabus that has significantly impacted the issue that was present back in the 70s-80s. A lot of the planes don't fly alot in the winter and few folks tend to jump in them and head to the wilds, with out working up to it in the spring. Guess what happens, just like alot of the spring accidents in other aircraft.

I've had mine for 11 years and about 1600 hours and can't imagine being with out it! But having a Cub or Scout in addition to get to places the Lake can't go would be GREAT

Hope I havn"t bored you, KAM

CFI,

Those are Dinner fish! The big ones stay in the water, to much for one or two meals!

Your 172 exp. if its a 180hp will give you a perfomance index, not quite as fast Stall 39kts, climb 700+ hot summer, 1000-1100 winter light, low alt cruise 105kts, higher alt cruise 110kts ( 8k DA). Its a draggy airplane and is a little alt. challanged, ceiling is supposed to be 14.5k, and I've had mine close but its a struggle. There are a few turbo 200s out there and of course they do better. I operate out of one lake in the cascade mtns @ 2.5k all summer and at near gross during summer ( DAs 3.2? ) thats 1 nm long with trees at the end, when its glassy and no head wind its enough .

The wing AD ( In MHO it was a BS deal by some people to sell parts ) is one time with a flashlight and mirror inspection @ annual, about 10min worth. Airs ( http://www.airinnov.com/ ) is one of the premier Lake shops, Paul was the enginner at Lake that developed the 200EP, 250 & 270T and has some 12k hours in the planes. His inspection check list is very exstensive aand covers it all.

The baggage is behind the rear seat, seat back tilts forward for access for small stuff, or for major packing seat lifts out in 2 min.held in by belts about 10lbs. Baggage box is about 4.5ft long and 34 inchs wide and 16 high, ( main fuel tank is above ). When out camping solo I slide the co-pilot seat forward all the way and actually can and do stretch out and sleep in there with my feet in the bag box ( No rear seat )

It actually is a pretty good rough turf airplane ( I probably just turned the heat on ) its slow stall and big trim tabs and elevator allow one to keep the small nose wheel off the dirt until very slow then drop it on and stop short. You can then taxi slow and careful watching for gopher an P dawg holes. Its not a Supercub or like but not bad and between water and turf, lots of opportunity presents its self.

Some of the strips I hit are in MT. Schafer, Meadow Creek, Spotted Bear. In ID Magee, Cavanaugh, Moose Creek. Also while not fast I make it from Watson Lake, the Yukon to Seattle in one day as long as its at least good IFR. ( I don't do hard IFR with it).

As irishc180 indicated ramp queens can be very intense restorations, they are quite complex for there size, and alot of it is hard to get at! Not like your 172! But for as complicated as they are they are quite durable. I've seen one that was bellied into an alfalfa field after an engine failure that required no more the the engine to be fixed and the alfalfa stains cleaned off the hull, absolutely no damage!!

As far as the accident rate, its almost always lack of training and proficency, its really not that difficult to fly well but it is different! The Lake community has a comprehensive syllabus that has significantly impacted the issue that was present back in the 70s-80s. A lot of the planes don't fly alot in the winter and few folks tend to jump in them and head to the wilds, with out working up to it in the spring. Guess what happens, just like alot of the spring accidents in other aircraft.

I've had mine for 11 years and about 1600 hours and can't imagine being with out it! But having a Cub or Scout in addition to get to places the Lake can't go would be GREAT

Hope I havn"t bored you, KAM

SORRY KAM

My 172 isn't a 180hp, but I have time in them. Great airplane, I think it's the best bang for the buck for a land plane. Got a great deal on my 172, and plan to use it to step up to a lake.

Thanks so much for the info. I am so sold. I whont one soooooooooooooooo bad . The only down side I can find in the plane is no mogas. Thanks so much for the info it was super helpful. I'll spend the next year watching YouTube clips .

I ran into a fellow with a Lake at Serpentine Hot Springs. I believe his was a 180 HP model. The airstrip is somewhere around 1000' long. He said he had no problems. He was traveling solo but had a goodly amount of gear. I was a little surprised to see an amphib there but I guess fly 'em if you got 'em. I don't know much about the Lakes but they do look like they are pretty stout.
-Nate

Everyone on this site is killing me. It seams all the fun airports are out west. Did a little research, and those hot springs look like a lot of fun. I think I can get there in about a week in the 172, and that's if its set to rental power. For now I'll stick to my beech trips and landing where airplanes are "supposed to"

flattie45 wrote:
I ran into a fellow with a Lake at Serpentine Hot Springs. I believe his was a 180 HP model. The airstrip is somewhere around 1000' long. He said he had no problems. He was traveling solo but had a goodly amount of gear. I was a little surprised to see an amphib there but I guess fly 'em if you got 'em. I don't know much about the Lakes but they do look like they are pretty stout.
-Nate

Flown under gross they are actually a pretty good STOL aircraft on land. The trailing link landing gear is very stout and except for the somewhat small nose wheel it will take you into a lot of places. I would have no hesitation taking a 200hp Lake into an easy 800 foot gravel strip under gross if I were proficient in the thing. My ground runs were less than 500 feet when I flew one with a CFI a few years ago, and you can really chop drop and stop with the thing - glides like a boat anchor.

I just relised if you can take out the back seats and sleap in the thing. I could probably do the same, and fit my surfboards in the plane

IrishC180 - William, nice to run into you again. Glad to hear that you were able to complete the Lake project. Good choice on getting Paul Furnée to fly over and help. I'm spending two days with him next week in FL. BTW, I'll probably be back in Ireland again next year and will look you up again!

CFIMechanic - The best source of information on Lakes is the Lake Flyers Club at www.lakeflyers.com. They have a very active forum where you can get any question on a Lake answered quickly. They also hold an annual convention, where various experts present on maintenance and operation. It usually includes a visit to one of the two Lake maintenance shops in Florida. Dates are March 18-20, 2012 in Lakeland, Florida. If you decide to buy a Lake (as I did last year), you'll want to get their past newsletters, more than 1000 pages, on CD, as they contain a wealth of information. If you're serious about knowing all there is to know about a Lake, you should join Lake Flyers Club.
The planes are great fun. Hope you get one.
Cheers,
Max

CFI, Try Chris Kjos (aka CKFLYER777 on youtube) for some Lake porn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-3a-PRPRuM
KAM

I have seen Ckflyers videos, they are pretty awesome. If I were him I think I would go threw a drum of corrosion-X every year.

CFI, you were asking about gross weight performance off the water doing the summer. I was going through a number of old post on the Lake Flyers Forum and found this one, from Paul Furnée, a Lake expert, which answers your question. I've had my LA-4-200 for a little over a year, but have yet to operate off the water at full gross weight, though have operated it with no problems at about 130 pounds below the 2600 pound gross weight. Yes you can go to 2690 if you have the aux tanks full of gas, but everyone I know uses the aux fuel for longer trips, not for operating on the water.
Max

The LA-4-200 should be able to get on step and fly at gross weight (2600 lbs.) at a density altitude of about 3,500 ft. The EP a little better, and if you have a Q-tip prop, a little less (+/-500').
If your aircraft will not do that, check the following:

1. Calibrate your tach and make certain you are getting at least 2700 RPM at static thrust. Some operators will set their prop low pitch and governor to go as high as 2850, but that is your risk and option (Note: IT REALLY HELPS!).

2. If you have a fuel flow indicator, it should be burning at least 20.5 GPH at full throttle at sea level conditions.

3. Weigh your airplane if it hasn't been weighed recently. Experience has shown that many Lakes weigh as much as 150 lbs. more than the flight manual weight. CG is also a factor, and best performance will result from an operational CG of 103.0" to 105.0"

4. Check your mag timing and make sure it is set between 20 and 25 BTC. 25 BTC seems to develop a little more power.

5. Either make sure your nozzles are closely matched, or invest (Yes, INVEST) in a set of GAMI nozzles.

6. If your prop is rough, damaged, or heavily filed, it will result in less static thrust. If possible, borrow someone else's prop and see if it makes a difference. As noted above, a Q-tip prop produces a bit less static thrust, so you need to compensate for that.

7. If your only problem is getting on step, the hull strakes will help a lot if you do not have them installed. Also, a deformed bottom (hull) will detract from "on step" capability.

8. If all else fails, buy another airplane.

Oops, accidentally posted prior message twice....But don't see how to delete this one.

I heard that the reversing MT prop is available for the Buccaneer. Aside from the obvious utility of the reverse thrust I wonder how normal performance is improved?

CFI & all,

I do not have the MT on my plane, but have flown it in the non-rev model ( its avail. both ways ) on another plane and was not impressed enough to buy. Some static thrust tests have been done by owners and Lake shops showing less thrust than the Hartzell. I hear MT is aware of this and may be considering a revised blade design. I hope they do that as they sure run smooth and quite!!

CFI, as far as your other thread on boats, two of the local guys KENO and DR. DEMENTO ( they have between them about 70 Lake trips from SEA to AK. in LA4-200s ) both have little outboards that the mount to the coming of the Lake and just motor the plane around to troll and fish. They've built a little mount to go on the cockpit coming, that accepts the the outboard, and they can sit in the cockpit and reach out to steer or sit on the cabin top and steer with a foot and fish Skip the dinghy, just get the plane! Look up KENO for vids.
KAM

I was obsessed with them for years and that's what I was going to buy, until my current thing came along. I still dream of owning amphibians. I trained for my ASES in a Lake and very much enjoyed flying it. That particular aircraft had 16.000hrs on it and was still looking smart! The overhead throttles and prop took a little time to get used to. And smooth landings on water was all about throttle control. Couldn't really say I felt the high thrust line had much effect on pitch. Liked everything about it except the differential braking steering.

When I was obsessing about them, I came to the conclusion that certain mods etc had to be there for me:

1. Batwing mod. It decreases take-off distance and stall speed.
2. Sponsoon aux tanks. The Lake's have pretty short range with their original tanks, so it makes sense to add the aux tanks. If you get a later 250 or 270, this was taken care of and they have great capacity.
3. Lake's have no heating, so a Janitrol heater on the roof can be nice to have. Suprisingly many didn't have it, though.
4. The 180 is only a 2-seater when operated from water. It can be a great and cheap alternative and most 180 owners say they're not any slower in cruise.
5. If you can get an EP, they're probably the best of the 200hp ones. Longer prop, better climb and more efficient without sacrificing anything.