Backcountry Pilot • Landing a Taildragger Help

Landing a Taildragger Help

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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Zane wrote:The wheelie vs 3-point debate for crosswinds will rage into the indefinite future, because both work, and one works better for some people in some planes. Each have their pros and cons.

I've grown to prefer 3-pointers in crosswinds because it lets me pin the tailwheel down sooner, helping to reduce weathervaning. The cons are that it can present more AOA in gusty conditions.

Wheelies let you reduce that AOA, maybe even fly it on with a little power in a nice level pitch attitude, but after touchdown while the airspeed bleeds off, you have less rudder authority with that tail up in the air, and into the dead zone. I preferred this in my Cessna though. Soon you won't have to think very hard about it.

Practice them all except the pirouette. :) kinda jealous, I wish I was out there doing laps in a T-craft.


Here's my flight track. Laps is what they are!!!

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=20 ... 4,0.049095
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

coloradokevbot wrote:. I found practicing forward slips to the left and right, helped my confidence on the side slips to both sides in crosswinds.



Good Idea......VERY good idea.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

in watching your video it seems to me that you are coming in quite low, I find that on a low approach I tend to get the flair buggered up. You might try a steeper approach and a more definite less drug out flair to land.
The other thing I saw is that on grass the wheels will slip sideways very easy so you don't have to force the plane into perfect alignment with the runway like you would on pavement.

Good luck,

Oh by the way, remember that some of this info, including mine may be worth just what you pay for it. nothing
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Keep in mind that I'm not a decent tail dragger pilot, but here's my advice for learning to land, which I've published here and there for years. It's what I used when I was instructing. There's nothing new there, but it may help. There're a couple of comments that are only applicable to trikes, but overall, it works.


How to land an airplane. Sometimes I think, “stop me if I’ve told you this before”, because I’ve written so many times about how to land—or how to solve landing problems. But here we go again. If you and I were to ride together, this is how I’d tell you to do it.

First, you need to have good control of your approach speed. Your approach speed on final should be 1.3 Vso—and Vso means the stall speed in the landing configuration. So if on this landing you’re using full flaps, and on the next one you use only 10 degrees, then adjust your approach speed accordingly. Since you don’t have any power to work with, that means adjusting the pitch. That also means that if you are following the approach speed recommendations in a late model POH, you need to use the slowest recommended approach speed. If the POH says 60-70 knots, use 60, for instance. But why not use the Vso and calculate from there?

Here you’re asking, why not a faster speed than 1.3 Vso? Simple—your landings will be better if you use 1.3 Vso. Trust me—it’s true.

You’re also wondering why we’re not talking about the whole pattern. Well, if you slow down on downwind and more on base so that you’re at 1.3 Vso on final, or if you enter the pattern on base and slow down so that you’re at 1.3 Vso on final, or if you do a straight-in approach so that you’re at 1.3 Vso on final, it really doesn’t matter. What is important is that you’re at 1.3 Vso on final.

Next, you need to know the sight picture for the flare. Here’s how to determine what it should be. On a normal take off, you raise the nose when the airplane is ready to fly. Memorize that, because that’s the sight picture you’ll want when you flare to land, not higher, not lower, but that same sight picture.

So now we’ll divide your landings into 3 parts: approach, leveling off, and landing flare.

So you’re on final approach, using whatever flaps you want to use for this landing, and you’re using 1.3 Vso. Trim for that speed!!!!! Trimming for the approach is as important as trimming for other aspects of flying. If you don’t trim properly, you are an interested passenger, not a pilot. No excuses—you must trim!

When you get within 10-15 feet of the runway surface, level off. Don’t raise the nose, level it, just like when you were flying in the pattern on downwind. Then wait. Don’t get anxious to do anything else—wait!

Meanwhile, look toward the end of the runway—it makes it easier than if you look closer to the airplane.

Soon the airplane will start to settle naturally, because without any power added, that’s what it does. When it starts to settle, raise the nose to that same sight picture that you had on take off. The airplane will slow more, continue to settle, and voila!, you’ll touch down!

You’re not finished. Continue to hold the nose up by gradually pulling the yoke/stick back as the airplane slows, and then gently lower it to the runway. Maintain directional control with the rudder pedals, and let the airplane slow, maybe with a little braking. But don’t get anxious to do much of anything else, because this is landing, not touch and goes, not “how quickly can I get the flaps up”, or how soon I can take off the carburetor heat.

As you become more proficient, you’ll meld the 3 steps into a continuous sort of action, but until then, consciously dividing it into 3 parts will make your landings so much better. Now go land!



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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

What were folks thinking building a house on the end of the runway?! :shock:
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

LT4247 wrote:What were folks thinking building a house on the end of the runway?! :shock:


Most of the houses on that road have airport access privelidges. My instructor claims that the guy who lives there says he and the wife love sitting on the porch in the evenings an watching the planes come in.

I'm thinking about getting a Applebee's gift certificate for $50 and going and dropping it off after I get done with my training....."Hi...I'm the guy that kept flying 30' over the top of your house for the last 3 months!!!"
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

shorton wrote:The other thing I saw is that on grass the wheels will slip sideways very easy so you don't have to force the plane into perfect alignment with the runway like you would on pavement.


Really? I have always found the grass and dirt to be A LOT easier. Pavement (for me at least) is like landing on ice. I would rather land on grass any day. Even more so when the wind is blowing cross wind. No disrespect here at all. Just posing that I prefer the opposite is all.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Windknot wrote:
LT4247 wrote:What were folks thinking building a house on the end of the runway?! :shock:


Most of the houses on that road have airport access privelidges. My instructor claims that the guy who lives there says he and the wife love sitting on the porch in the evenings an watching the planes come in.

I'm thinking about getting a Applebee's gift certificate for $50 and going and dropping it off after I get done with my training....."Hi...I'm the guy that kept flying 30' over the top of your house for the last 3 months!!!"


:lol:
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

When i was and sometimes still do what your doing. I had to start training my mind to land on the ground, not a foot above it and not a foot below it. You dont want to smack the ground but you need it to land. Just got to get that feeling where the ground is when you need it.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Methinks I've got it.

http://youtu.be/xtHzVld5x1M

This is from Wednesday this week. I pretty much got it down pat what I NEED to do - I'm finding that a little application of a few hundred RPMs when I'm leveled off significantly helps the hold-off. Admittedly a 2600' runway helped as well.


I flew 10 landings on Thursday at my home airport (with the house at the end of the runway) they were with a decent crosswind and were bouncy, but nothing worse than a self-graded "C".
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Windknot wrote:Methinks I've got it.

http://youtu.be/xtHzVld5x1M

This is from Wednesday this week. I pretty much got it down pat what I NEED to do - I'm finding that a little application of a few hundred RPMs when I'm leveled off significantly helps the hold-off. Admittedly a 2600' runway helped as well.


I flew 10 landings on Thursday at my home airport (with the house at the end of the runway) they were with a decent crosswind and were bouncy, but nothing worse than a self-graded "C".


I love the self glory narration! Nice work! Now through in some slips over those trees! I can feel your excitement!

Akt
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

I talk to myself all the time - I've found when I'm flying that when I'm learning something, I repeat the steps (apparently out loud) to myself.

First time I watched that clip - I burst out laughing after hearing my comments about my first landing -

What I did edit out was my blubbering - my dad was always an aviation buff who grew up during WWII memorizing silhouette charts in case we were ever invaded - he's buried about 2 miles from the end of runway 29 and I can see the Cemetery once I get up to pattern altitude - he would have LOVED this.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

I love the Taylorcraft I've been flying an F 19 and as of a couple years ago an F-22 since 1990.
Just a little advice if you ever get into trouble always go to the throttle and not the brakes. it is amazing the trouble you can get out of with throttle and rudder in a Taylorcraft.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

LMAO Sean!!! Good on ya!! But I have a question...how many "Ah $hits were editied out? ;)
Good job fellow flyer! Makes me want to go up and pull the Champ out and take her for a buzz. Need to go up listen to hpow real airplane sounds for a change instead of this weedeater/buzzsaw sounding plane I have been flying lately. LOL
Oh, got a kick out of your name on youtube also...CHUNK Yeager! =D>
Keep up the good work and you'll be a proud PPL soon enough.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Honestly....on this trip there were ZERO curses during the entire time. ZERO.

Now...when I flew Thursday however.....I was SHOCKED what a vile, dirty mouth I have (especially when the T-Crate is bouncing down the runway after I drop it 2 or three feet after a huge flare).

I'm not posting Thursday's video because of that (my horrid, horrid language), because it'll just show more of the same and because I'm working off a lap-top out of town and the sucker gets REAL HOT when I start trying to render raw video down for display on the internet.

but the interesting thing about the difference between the published Wednesday video showing 3 awfully good landings and the unpublished thursday video was the utter lack of confidence in MY VOICE - I was not calling out each stage like I was the day before, I was just not on my "A-Game." That...and I was cursing like a sailor on Thursday!!!! :D [-X

Keith - you best just pull out Super Champ and get it to flyin'!!!!
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

I fly a J3 -- what are brakes?
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

Your approach looks a little low and flat to me, but it might be the camera angle. I prefer slower, steeper approaches in my Maule. I generally prefer 3-pointers except when I need better visibility over the nose or the surface is rough and I want to spare my tailwheel. Unless you are an expert, you will use more runway trying to touch down gently without bouncing in a wheel landing. Both techniques work in crosswinds if you do a good job controlling final approach airspeed and sink rate.

Finding the right flare point is something only practice will improve. I use the position of the runway edges in my windshield as a guide, as long as the runway isn't too wide. Memorize the sight angle when the airplane is stopped and that's the one you want before touchdown. You can use the throttle to increase or reduce sink rate while maintaining this sight angle. Maintaining a stable final approach airspeed and sink rate are vital to a smooth landing. I reduce power to idle once I've made the runway.

I prefer crabbing on final to wing low with lots of opposite rudder in a crosswind because there's less drag and you don't need as much power. If the wind is steady, the wing low method works better. In gusty crosswinds you have more to do trying to maintain runway alignment with the wing low/opposite rudder technique.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

You're pretty much stuck on the approach In a Taylorcraft ,no flaps And any excess in speed on approach and you can miss the entire runway
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

When you touch down, pretend you are pushing your two wheeled luggage cart backwards, and you are in an isle barely inches wider than the tiny wheels, and on each side are pressure sensitive explosives.

You must keep your luggage perfectly straight!

Wouldn't it new nice if you could just pull your luggage cart?

Well, you can. It's called Tricycle Landing Gear.
Last edited by S39Pilot on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Landing a Taildragger Help

my best landings, and most Maule drivers hold a little power on short final all the way to touch down MOST of the time. I find if I hold power at about 1000 RPM to flair and then just a few more hundred at flair it kisses the pavement just right.. and on grass or dirt you can't tell when the wheels touch, that is most of the time...we all screw up a landing now and then but as was stated above... power out of a problem not brakes... :D
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