Sorry for such a noob question, but I am and since I've just figured out how to log in, the search function may be a few months away for me.

When I ask a friend or acquaintance about landing on their ground and they say "sure, let me find out about insurance first." Is that something that they really need to worry about? I'm interested in the legal minutia.

Whether the landowner would have any liability at all would depend on the individual state's laws--some states have specific statutes for premises liability, while most rely on common law definitions of invitees, licensees, and trespassers, and liability depends on which kind the person is.

If a private land owner could be conceivably liable based on state law if something untoward should happen, then the question is whether that liability is covered by the landowner's insurance, and that depends entirely on the terminology in the insurance policy.

One way of minimizing liability would be to require any user to execute a well-drafted release which emphasizes that use of the property for landing and taking off is strictly at the risk of the pilot. I emphasize "well-drafted", because I've seen a lot of poorly drafted releases.

Cary

Cary wrote:Whether the landowner would have any liability at all would depend on the individual state's laws--some states have specific statutes for premises liability, while most rely on common law definitions of invitees, licensees, and trespassers, and liability depends on which kind the person is.

If a private land owner could be conceivably liable based on state law if something untoward should happen, then the question is whether that liability is covered by the landowner's insurance, and that depends entirely on the terminology in the insurance policy.

One way of minimizing liability would be to require any user to execute a well-drafted release which emphasizes that use of the property for landing and taking off is strictly at the risk of the pilot. I emphasize "well-drafted", because I've seen a lot of poorly drafted releases

Do you have an example of a well drafted one?

I promise I won't take any legal action if I crash my plane on your property. I realize I am using your property to land and take off in my airplane at my oun risk.


Signed_______________________________

nefj40 wrote:Sorry for such a noob question, but I am and since I've just figured out how to log in, the search function may be a few months away for me.

When I ask a friend or acquaintance about landing on their ground and they say "sure, let me find out about insurance first." Is that something that they really need to worry about? I'm interested in the legal minutia.

40, 1st off, go look at the RAF website, read what is there and it will answer a few questions, then Join and get behind them in there efforts!!
They have done great things in the last 5 years or so!!

I do have some well-drafted releases for other hazardous activities, including one I drafted for a private pilot who requires every passenger to sign the release (do you think many people ride with him?). I have not drafted any for landowners to allow others to land on their property. But releases also need to be state-law specific. If I were to post them on a public forum used by folks from states that I'm not licensed to practice in, I would be skating over ethical lines and my own liability would shoot through the roof.

Cary

Cary wrote:I do have some well-drafted releases for other hazardous activities, including one I drafted for a private pilot who requires every passenger to sign the release (do you think many people ride with him?). I have not drafted any for landowners to allow others to land on their property. But releases also need to be state-law specific. If I were to post them on a public forum used by folks from states that I'm not licensed to practice in, I would be skating over ethical lines and my own liability would shoot through the roof.

Grrr.

So reading between the lines, even if Zane were to create a database with documents separated by state it sounds like you would still be too concerned to contribute because even though a doc might be marked CO, someone from IN might grab it and use it?

What works for me: I landed on private property twice, this week. Both times I didn't ask. Both times I needed to check out the job site out prior to arriving for crane work. Both times I mentioned over the phone that I'd "stop by" prior to work day, I may have neglected to mention it would be an airplane. One place was a triangle of waste ground left by the pivot sprinkler system, but right near the house under construction I will be working on Sat. The other was a cut strip of hay field and also right next to the job site. Neither rancher has any problem whatsoever with me doing so. My attitude is if I am going to drive up in a pickup it is OK to fly in. The tricky part of course is knowing when NOT to do it, and it goes without saying don't scare people, crash, or make a lot of noise.

It helps to have a very quiet plane, with big cartoon like tires, with a non threatening name on the cowling, that lands extremely slowly. Both of these customers will be getting aerial photo's of their construction sites at a later date, gratis. Lawyers and releases have never been mentioned in the decades I have been doing this, and I have never been called out on doing it, so I guess I'm doing it right. Living in a very rural area helps a lot. The relaxed nature of the rural residents in my area is why I settled here 35 yrs ago, your area may be different.

The old adage : It's better to ask for forgiveness then permission applies well to landing on private property. Most people view pilots and airplanes as cool and unique and don't mind if you land on their property. especially if you seek them out and give them a simple explanation why your there. I have preemptively ( contrary to above) asked land owners who are strategically located near gas stations or restaurants if I can land on their property some time in the future and have gotten very positive responses.
Especially if I appear deranged, uttering words about the devil and wave my 44 mag about. Ok please, the last part is a joke. Im only partly deranged and am agnostic.

exodus wrote:The old adage : It's better to ask for forgiveness then permission applies well to landing on private property.

Yeaaaaaah .......but not always....just be careful with that one. I would encourage seeking out permission first. However, many of the ranches that we can land on now happened just like that but the rancher was also waving as if they needed help or saying hello as I made a pass or two first. Once I see the wave you of course need to make certain they are ok. Then offer them a ride.

AKT

I did my crane job yesterday on the private farm ground I had flown into earlier in the week. As I was putting stuff away the owners young wife wandered over and and I asked her if this was the first house of a planned subdivision. A small joke as this was a remote area in a remote area (in a corner of Arbon Valley for you locals). It's about a mile or more off the only paved road around and a few more miles to the closet other farm house. She responded with " No subdivision! Just us. I told my husband if we were going to build way out here lets get way out, so I can run around naked". What a great attitude! She also thought it was great I had flown in earlier. A good women all around!

Cary wrote:I do have some well-drafted releases for other hazardous activities, including one I drafted for a private pilot who requires every passenger to sign the release (do you think many people ride with him?). I have not drafted any for landowners to allow others to land on their property. But releases also need to be state-law specific. If I were to post them on a public forum used by folks from states that I'm not licensed to practice in, I would be skating over ethical lines and my own liability would shoot through the roof.

Cary

How about a generic release that covers all states?

Also note that many cities have Ordinances prohibiting airplanes and helicopters from landing and taking off except at airports (exceptions for Police and EMS, of course). There are also a few small airparks that got their permits by excluding jets and helicopters. Check before you go!