Before I ask this, I will say that I've done about 100 hours of research looking for the answer. Well, not really, but that is about what I've invested in on-line ground school and I kept expecting to find the answer somewhere in the course.

I've covered all the material and am in review mode now. Nowhere have I read anything about when it is or isn't legal to land on a road in a non-emergency situation.

Obviously, I'm not talking about I-5. I'm talking about old logging or mining roads in the backcountry. I spend a lot of time in the field and have seen countless stretches of long-unused (or rarely used) roads that look to me like serviceable runways.

I live and will be flying mostly in western Canada. I'm curious about the law in the US but really hoping for an answer from a local pilot.

Thanks!

Like real estate…

location, location, location

One of my neighbors has a hangar next to his garage. No airstrip in sight for miles. He's been landing on the paved county road and pulling in to his hangar for at least 20 years..

Take care, Rob

Rob wrote: One of my neighbors has a hangar next to his garage. No airstrip in sight for miles. He's been landing on the paved county road and pulling in to his hangar for at least 20 years..

Brilliant. Next real estate excursion, I'm going to look for a lot on the best straight, cut back, overhead line-free, aligned with the prevailing wind road I can find.

No FAR that prohibits landing on roads. Local and State Highway laws regulate. Most states in the 'free states (AK,MT, ID, ND, SD) have recently passed laws that 1: prevent liability actions to ANY landowner if aircraft landing is done on their property. 2: specifically allows landing aircraft on rural roads. My local Sheriff told me he could issue a citation to me for 'unauthorized motor vehicle on public road' here in WI at present. Same as getting caught with your 4-wheeler on a town road.

MTV, can provide the MT citation that has been used by other states as a model law.

John

Northern Nevada, Eastern Oregon, county roads are our friend.

I don't know about BC or the rest of Canada though. 40 years ago when I started ferrying airplanes up and down the Alcan, we stopped on the highway pretty much anywhere we wanted to eat or spend the night. Last trip I flew up in 2006, I said something to the FSS guy in Whitehorse about landing on the road at Burwash Landing for a cup of Joe. He got all excited like, and said don't do it or risk a ticket. Told me those days were over.

I didn't push the issue and motored on to Northway.

Gump

Watch out for signs. We have 2 pilots here who did this. Pilot 1 landing barely clipped the sign. Pilot 2 comes in to help pilot 1. He clips the same sign.

You know who you are.

OregonMaule wrote:Watch out for signs. We have 2 pilots here who did this. Pilot 1 landing barely clipped the sign. Pilot 2 comes in to help pilot 1. He clips the same sign.

You know who you are.

Well, that just sucks!

GumpAir wrote:

Gump, I've always liked the look of your plane. Wish you posted pics of it more often.

I love Fields. Great hamburger and malt. Can't wait to get back

Used to be a guy north of town here who flew a 180 or 185 off US 287 after taxiing a short distance from his property. I haven't seen that airplane in several years, but my CFII told me that heard that he got twisted with the Highway Patrol over something or other, and that's why he quit.

I think it's mostly a local issue, which may or may not be addressed by statutes or regulations. The place to look is in the Provincial statutes/codes. Showing my ignorance, I don't know how the provinces are divided up, like the counties we have in the Lower 48 and the boroughs in Alaska. But that would be another place to look. And then you could always ask (anonymously) by calling your local constabulary or RCMP and see what sort of answers you get.

On the "look out for signs" issue, also look out for power lines, phone lines, etc. Best to have reconnoitered the particular road in advance of using it, since some potential problems aren't very visible from the air. I gather that you're a student, since you mentioned ground school. Also get some specific training on judging the length and width of roads. Country roads are often pretty narrow, and while many of us here have landed on strips no wider than 15'-20', it's not common to do so in training, since most "narrow" airports are actually typically 50' wide or thereabouts. You want to get very proficient at landing smack dab in the center of whatever road/strip you choose.

Cary

Last century I used county roads, section roads, frontage roads, and other roads extensively spraying with Stearman, Pawnee, and Callair in the midwest, high plains, West Texas, New Mexico, and Colorado. Slow spray planes with a lot of drag had to work close to the field being sprayed. Knowing the farmers was the key. Having a loader down there, especially if he was a good diplomat, was a great advantage.

Not as often, but occasionally I used these same kinds of roads flying pipeline late last century and early this century. The key was to seek permission if anyone showed up. Most law enforcement gave permission. A couple smiled and mentioned they were supposed to contact the FAA.

Things have certainly changed. We now live in a world where one persons trouble or convenience looks like a lottery win, in the form of a law suit, to many. You are in a small airplane, however. A few minutes intensive visual reconnaissance should clear an area for a short stop. And the desert is still a lot bigger place than man.

Should you decide to land on the road, you need to do a high recon at about two hundred feet. Check for wires. On modern dirt roads they are more than a wing width away. Your main concern is wires crossing the road. These will tee off to barns, pump stands, and houses. Wires crossing wires along your road will have very high poles that should be easy to locate. You have probably picked a straight road, but even the slightest turn in a wire will require a guy wire. I have cut wires with the prop but never a guy wire. Evaluate the amount of traffic, if any, on the road. Fly the approach, overfly the road, and fly the egress. Figure out the general drainage of the area. Landing should be upslope, given wind considerations, and takeoff should be downslope. Drainage should be used as egress.

Dennis Nail, a young fellow instructor at Ag Flight, used a phrase I have stolen and used ever since. "Know how every wire gets into the field (road in this case) and know how every wire gets out of the field."

The low recon should be at the level of the wires. Watch the poles, not the wires. Check how hilly the road is, re-evaluate the width of the wires, and pay particular attention to intersections, signs, houses, mail boxes, other buildings, or anything near the road. Dirt roads get graded from time to time. Make sure the grader man hasn't left a dike on or too close to the road. All road signs are closer than a wing width. Evaluate their height, but assume they will be too high. For low wing they almost always are. For high wing, it is almost always very close. Check to see if trees along the road have been trimmed. Much more attention is given tree trimming in the midwest because of clear ice damage to wires, but overhanging limbs can put you in a cave.

Be nice enough to get the plane off the road immediately after landing. If anyone complains, say "you are absolutely right," and leave safely. I was sleeping on the Pawnee wing one time in western Kansas. A farmer came down the road in his combine and woke me just to see if I was alright.

Like Cary said, put it on the center of the road. There probably won't be a center line. The nose or tail wheel (center of the longitudinal axis) will be exactly between your legs, not under the prop in a side by side seating aircraft. If that doesn't make sense to you, stop with the taxi line (look up there where you look during takeoff and landing) between your legs, shut down, and get out and look.

I just had the same conversation with a flight examiner here in Grande Prairie. He says there is no law against it in Canada.
That said, I wouldn't push the envelope just to find out. On the other hand, this is my most used take off spot...
https://youtu.be/Xdgh077Ot8c
David

Every jurisdiction has it's own rules on this. In Montana, for example, you can land on a road as long as someone on the ground clears the roadway for you prior to landing/takeoff.

In most areas where sprayers work, you can land on county roads as long as your airplane is yellow . Just tell em you're spraying Roundup.

There is no "general rule". Ask the local authorities and see what they have to say. You both may learn something.....

MTV

All of Canada is considered to be an aerodrome for the purposes of the law (except for built up areas and where specifically prohibited by regulation). Just remember to stay 500' away from any structure, person, or vehicle. A sticky TC inspector might consider an old fence to be a structure, but if you pick your place right there won't be anyone around to see you anyway.

Use a bit of sense, look over the area well, and you'll be fine (and legal!).

Thanks everyone.

I'm pleasantly surprised that common sense seems to be the guide. After reading regulations for the past couple weeks I thought it would be much more tightly controlled.

This really helps me get excited about exploring on wheels instead of floats.

Now I have to figure out if they really mean it when they say you need authority from the governing body (aka The Minister) to carry weapons or ammunition.

Lots of roads where you can take off and land have the potential for serious conflict if someone is coming the other way at the wrong time. It's really easy to see traffic when you're landing, but taking off is a whole different story, especially if the road isn't arrow-straight and water-flat.

Pretty sure running someone off the road or making them lock up their brakes and crap their pants while waiting to see if you're going to get air born in time is going to get you violated, as it should. I freely admit that there have been times when my buddy was flying off roads and it was impossible to be sure there wasn't going to be a conflict with oncoming traffic during the take off. He couldn't tell it was going to be like that when he landed. Pretty unsettling, or so he says.

albravo wrote:Thanks everyone.

I'm pleasantly surprised that common sense seems to be the guide. After reading regulations for the past couple weeks I thought it would be much more tightly controlled.

This really helps me get excited about exploring on wheels instead of floats.

Now I have to figure out if they really mean it when they say you need authority from the governing body (aka The Minister) to carry weapons or ammunition.

Well, exploring on floats would be superbly wonderful! My minimal exposure to float flying (an intro lesson in BC 3 years ago and my SES float training 1 1/2 years ago) told me that if I lived where it made sense, I'd be doing all sorts of exploring on floats. It's the most fun I've had flying in 43 years of flying, and it's the most fun any pilot can have in an upright position.

As for the guns & ammo issue, Canada's rules are pretty tight. No pistols of any kind, and transporting of long guns has to be for purposes of protection from wildlife or hunting, with all that goes with that. Here's my story about that issue. We'd chartered a Nordic Tug for the first time at Anacortes, WA, and our plan was to cruise a bit in the San Juan Islands of Washington, then into Canada in the San Juans and Gulf Islands. We came into Sydney, BC, and called Canada Customs. When the lady asked if we had any weapons aboard, I acknowledged that I had brought my "boat gun", a 12 gauge SS Mossberg short barreled shotgun. She asked why, and I said, "For protection." She then said she'd have to send officers to examine the boat and gun.

You see, I'd been to Canada on my little boat (read about it in The Ultimate Small Boat Adventure, still only $15.95 from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc.) and carried that same shotgun, but when I'd passed through Customs on that trip, I'd planned to camp in the boat or on shore, and legitimately it was for "protection from wildlife". Hard to use that as justification when we planned to sleep on the Nordic Tug and didn't even have a tent along, and "self protection" isn't good enough under Canada's rules--it has to be "protection from wildlife".

When the officers came, they examined the boat as if we were going to smuggle in something horrible, then gave us the choice of either forfeiting the gun or leaving Canada. We chose the latter. A bit of humor--our dog needed to pee, so both officers accompanied Marilyn to the nearest pee patch, leaving me alone on the boat with the gun!

A couple of years later, we again chartered the same Nordic Tug. This time I was smart enough to leave the gun at home. But when we checked in with Canada Customs again at Sydney, BC, the lady on the phone asked me the usual questions. Then she asked, "Tell me, do you have the shotgun this time?" I had to laugh, and told her "No, I learned, it's at home." They do keep track!

Cary

Cary wrote:

albravo wrote:Thanks everyone.

I'm pleasantly surprised that common sense seems to be the guide. After reading regulations for the past couple weeks I thought it would be much more tightly controlled.

This really helps me get excited about exploring on wheels instead of floats.

Now I have to figure out if they really mean it when they say you need authority from the governing body (aka The Minister) to carry weapons or ammunition.

Well, exploring on floats would be superbly wonderful! My minimal exposure to float flying (an intro lesson in BC 3 years ago and my SES float training 1 1/2 years ago) told me that if I lived where it made sense, I'd be doing all sorts of exploring on floats. It's the most fun I've had flying in 43 years of flying, and it's the most fun any pilot can have in an upright position.

As for the guns & ammo issue, Canada's rules are pretty tight. No pistols of any kind, and transporting of long guns has to be for purposes of protection from wildlife or hunting, with all that goes with that. Here's my story about that issue. We'd chartered a Nordic Tug for the first time at Anacortes, WA, and our plan was to cruise a bit in the San Juan Islands of Washington, then into Canada in the San Juans and Gulf Islands. We came into Sydney, BC, and called Canada Customs. When the lady asked if we had any weapons aboard, I acknowledged that I had brought my "boat gun", a 12 gauge SS Mossberg short barreled shotgun. She asked why, and I said, "For protection." She then said she'd have to send officers to examine the boat and gun.

You see, I'd been to Canada on my little boat (read about it in The Ultimate Small Boat Adventure, still only $15.95 from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc.) and carried that same shotgun, but when I'd passed through Customs on that trip, I'd planned to camp in the boat or on shore, and legitimately it was for "protection from wildlife". Hard to use that as justification when we planned to sleep on the Nordic Tug and didn't even have a tent along, and "self protection" isn't good enough under Canada's rules--it has to be "protection from wildlife".

When the officers came, they examined the boat as if we were going to smuggle in something horrible, then gave us the choice of either forfeiting the gun or leaving Canada. We chose the latter. A bit of humor--our dog needed to pee, so both officers accompanied Marilyn to the nearest pee patch, leaving me alone on the boat with the gun!

A couple of years later, we again chartered the same Nordic Tug. This time I was smart enough to leave the gun at home. But when we checked in with Canada Customs again at Sydney, BC, the lady on the phone asked me the usual questions. Then she asked, "Tell me, do you have the shotgun this time?" I had to laugh, and told her "No, I learned, it's at home." They do keep track!

Cary

That is pretty funny but you're right, they do keep track but it wouldn't surprise me if she remembered you either. Small towns and all.

I winced when I read you said 'for protection'. Definitely the wrong reason to mention up here, When we do the additional training and licensing to own a handgun we are taught to answer 'for target practise' and never mention anything, ever, about self or home defence. Don't get me started on Canadian gun laws.

I'm up on the regs for transport of firearms as written in the Firearms Act, but it seems as though there is a law in the CARs that prohibits transport of weapons or ammunition by plane. I'll have to dig a bit deeper, the way it was written in my course it struck me that it was meant to deter arms hauling, not hunting but the language would preclude packing a gun for hunting or animal protection. I know the guides and customers do it all the time, so something doesn't add up.

You should have told her the shotgun was for in case an orca attacked the boat.
Or a kraken.

A couple of years later, we again chartered the same Nordic Tug. This time I was smart enough to leave the gun at home. But when we checked in with Canada Customs again at Sydney, BC, the lady on the phone asked me the usual questions. Then she asked, "Tell me, do you have the shotgun this time?" I had to laugh, and told her "No, I learned, it's at home." They do keep track!

Back in the early 90's when we were working on our Dean Channel property in BC, I lived in Sonoma County Kalifornia, and probably made 10 trips back and forth between home and there one summer in my C180. Just because I was lazy, I flew each trip the same route every time, always stopping in Penticton for customs, and I got to know the customs officers pretty well.

I usually had an AR with me, or a folding stock 12 gauge, about which they never looked, never cared, and never asked. The question was always, "Do you have any firearms?"

"Yup, got my bear gun..." They didn't care, and no further questions were asked.

Now carrying booze was another thing entirely.

"How much?" The answer was usually a case of cans, or a bottle of something, but never very much, as, for all the BSing around I do, I don't drink much. Customs' response was always to tease me about launching off into the wilderness without being properly supplied with hooch.

But this one time.... I had a bunch of buddies flying in to the property for a couple week fly-in. That 180 was stuffed to the gills with booze. I landed in Penticton, got greeted by one of the customs guys I knew, who said hi and was more interested in throwing the ball for Hoser the Wonder Dog than asking me customs questions.

When he did, and got to the booze and cigarettes questions, I said, "Hell yeah I got booze this trip! Lots!"

He literally put his hands over his ears, said, "La La La La! Don't tell me. I don't want to know."

I'm assuming those days are long gone.

Gump