Dont kill the buzz. You will be DELIGHTED with your upgrades. Gary

Jr.
Where do you get your auto gas? Are there a lot of planes that use auto gas as and option here on the west coast? Just wondered if it was worth while for the local fuel farm to put in a tank for autogas and if anyone would fly in just to fill up.

I assume you are going to go with the Del Air kit. I don't know that much about that kit, but I have an Avcon airplane.

Apparently, on the Avcon, the only reason you have to add an electric fuel pump is due to a section of fuel line that isn't replaced in the conversion, upstream of the engine installation. This line is a smaller diameter than that which is required to run an O-360 at takeoff power, hence the engine driven pump, and the electric backup pump.

I know of at least one A/P who got several field approvals to remove the electric pump, after replacing that one stretch of fuel line with larger diameter.

If you are doing major rework anyway, and you have a relatively intelligent and helpful FSDO office, you might consider seeing if you can do away with this extra cost/complexity/weight/nuisance.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

MTV

I can get you going with a blog on here, or wiki at the forthcoming C170 wiki site. It's good karma to document engine conversions!

Zane,

What?

Forthcoming C170 wiki site

Have I missed something or are you teasing?

Bill

I have been tossing this idea around for a while. The 170 forums are a good information source, but not suited to documentation. If you look in the member forum over there, you'll see my thread about it.

For guys that are embarking on projects like Jr, I want to offer a blogsite that they can use to document their progress. Current blogging software like Wordpress makes it easy to attach images for posts, more so than the forums.

So Jr, if you're interested, we can do brownwhiskey.backcountrypilot.org or something along those lines.

Z

MTV

I know you are correct about the fuel lines.In researching my 175 project I came aross this in the TCDS.

Note 4 fuel system does not comply w/CAR3.433,3.434 for horsepower greater than 167 at best angle of climb which is critical angle.
175A,B have small fuel lines from tanks fwd.175C and up went to constant speed prop and whole system was changed to provide more flow.
I know there is a standard fuel flow test procedure in order to determine if the system is adequate.It's likely the mechanic got field approvals to delete the fuel pump by providing data to prove a pump was not needed with the larger lines.

Bill

Bill,

Yes, that was the basis. He offered to do a field approval for mine, but I didn't see that much benefit to removing a fuel pump that's already installed, and incurring a bunch of maintenance costs in the process.

But, building one up, it might make some sense. Would save having to buy the pump, wiring it, etc, etc, in exchange for changing out a piece of fuel line.

MTV

Jr.CubBuilder wrote:My autogas came from 35lb plastic gas cans that I would lug up a ladder and pour through a Racor filter. As one person commented "what a pain in the ass" but at my income level saving nearly $2 per gallon was worth it. For anybody else out there contemplating this keep in mind that I would always wear cotton, and grounded the plane off the exhaust pipe with my own ground strap.

Just a little information for Jr and everyone else here.... Plastic gas cans are VERY static producing!! I used to haul fuel, and if they found a plastic bucket on your truck, you couldn't get through the gate at the loading points. I've seen the results of grounded fuel tanks and plastic cans, and it's not pretty! Yes, I know that lots of people get away with it... but just because they do, are you willing to risk your life on it? I'd very strongly caution anyone to at least get metallic fuel cans if you're going to pour your own fuel... I know it's a PIA, but so is burning!!
JH

Good advice, John. A good friend of mine got burned really bad last fall with a combination of plastic can and gasoline. Lost a nice airplane too.

The important thing to understand is that plastic cans are NOT conductive. The static charge builds up all over the outside and inside surface of the can as you pour.

It is impossible to bond a non conductive surface to the aircraft.

Build up enough potential, and boom .

People fool themselves all the time with what they think are safe bonding methods, but there simply are none for plastic cans.

Remember the old science experiment with cat fur and a plastic rod?

MTV

Merry Christmas JR.

...Plastic gas cans are VERY static producing!!...I've seen the results of grounded fuel tanks and plastic cans, and it's not pretty! Yes, I know that lots of people get away with it... but just because they do, are you willing to risk your life on it? I'd very strongly caution anyone to at least get metallic fuel cans if you're going to pour your own fuel... I know it's a PIA, but so is burning!!
JH

I use plastic 5 gal cans. I insert a brass wire into the pour spout, all the way to the bottom of the 5 gal gas can. I then clamp the other end to bare metal away from the tank (hinge pin, exhaust pipe, tie-down hook, etc.). I then pour the contents of the grounded plastic gas can into a metal funnel stuck into the gas tank filler hole. When finished, I extract the wire from the can, and it seems to work well. Is this safe? It's my own invention, but it must ground the static forces this way.
What do you all think? Thanks, Berk

Berk,

If that procedure makes you feel better, fine, but it really doesn't do much to prevent static problems.

The problem with plastic cans is that, just like that plastic rod that you rub with rabbit fur, the static charge builds up, and is distributed OVER THE OUTSIDE of the can, not in the liquid within. When you have a metal can, and it is bonded to the aircraft structure, the static can equalize with the airframe. Not so with the plastic can.

We struggled with this in the Alaskan Aviation Safety Foundation, in cooperation with Monte Parrish, a professional fuels expert, trying to find some relatively safe way to dissipate the static from a plastic can, including trying the setup you describe. We could find no safe way to dissipate a static buildup on the outside of a plastic can. Monte tried really hard, with a lot of experiments to find some safe way to do so, and he was a fuels handling expert.

The static charge doesn't reside in the center of the liquid, but rather on the periphery.

The biggest risk factor is using plastic cans in cold temperatures, with dry air. I have used plastic cans for years, but I don't use them in winter. Also, the amount of fuel you are transferring is important, since that will to some extent determine the amount of static buildup.

I hate metal cans, but......

MTV

Shawn Lunt..... And plastic gas containers.
Taxing to the runway in Dillingham....
Watched Shawn put a couple red 5 gallon jugs in his super cub.
Couple hours later I'm in Platinum doing something outside, watched Shawn and another super cub fly by. 10 minutes later Shawn moose stalled over a caracas on the beach in Jack Smith Bay. Burst into flames upon impact. Don't know if the accident was survivable......less the those two 5 gallon jugs of gas?
That said.... I bought two of the 5 gallon rubber bladder gas bags to haul extra fuel.
Mark M.

Bit of a mystery thread here...

Notice the original date. The original poster has since asked that I remove their account and posts from the site, so the thread now starts with Gary's reply. If I recall it was something to do with 170's and the auto gas STC.