I decided to cross-post something here I wrote this a.m. on the AOPA Forum Board for two reasons - one, because the quote that caused me to respond in the first place, in my opinion should not - in respect to Sparky's memory and career - be left to just stand. and two, because it offers some more recent (albeit so terribly sad) information as it is known now, and it seems like anything that will slow down errant conjecture at this point as to what happened ... is a good thing.

This is the original quote that caused me to respond - and unfortunately I do - have to quote him in order for this to make sense:

Quote:
"Jeff Brown, president of Jackson Hole Aviation, said Imeson was a known risk taker. “Knowing Sparky, he pushes weather all the time,” he said. “If you play with airplanes and weather long enough, sooner or later it’s going to get you.”


This was the comment made by the AOPA Forum member who posted the quote:
Why whould someone make a comment like that. I have seen no mention that weather is being considered as a factor.

This was my response:

First I have to say - that Jeff Brown of Jackson Hole Aviation strikes me as an ignorant human being who should probably keep his opinions to himself ... what an asinine statement to make about a man who's whole career was dedicated to pilot safety. I won't dignify his stupidity by quoting him, but unequivocably let me say - and I could get countless intelligent and experienced pilots to back me up on this - he could not ... be more wrong.

And I feel - as sad as I am to have to share this - that some "facts" should be put out there as they're known at this point ... to stop conjectures (including my own; I think we all try to figure out a why for things that seem so sadly senseless, in an effort to make ourselves feel better. I know I do anyway.)

I received an e-mail last night from my friend, a man who is a very close friend to Sparky and who flew out from CA to Montana Tuesday night to help with the search. What he shared as far as facts known at this point, puts to rest any guessing that this was weather related, or even medical as I have been thinking - what's known now seems to point to mechanical. And I think it will remove reason for any thought that this man did anything at the end but be the exceptional pilot he was ~ and fly his plane.

The horrendeous basic facts: a rancher saw him flying toward his old crash site (thought is - perhaps to take pictures,) then something must have happened to his engine and he headed for lowering terrain and made it to a flat spot, he set his 180 down, it's a rough field, he hit a berm, it flipped the plane over causing it to burn up with Sparky inside.

I cannot end this on that horrible vision...

So a quick story that makes me smile to remember. He and the friend I mention above, came to our ranch in May 2007 to spend the night on their way to Wyoming. At one point in a lovely late afternoon ~ we're all sitting and talking and a "family" of wild turkey's presents itself in our line of vision in our back pasture on the other side of the fence - mother and about 8 chicks.

The next thing we know, Sparky grabs his camera - and goes "hunting." He loved animals and birds and to take pictures, and was always filling friends e-mail boxes with photos of moose in his yard when he lived in Jackson Hole, and herds of this and that he'd encounter on the road in his many "grounded" travels. I will always fondly remember him carefully picking his way down our fairly steep back hill ... stalking the turkey's.

A good man we will miss ~ rest in peace Sparky ....

Thanks for setting the record straight on that snap judgment.

There's a photo on the Helena Independent Republic website that shows his airplane with the back part of the fuselage, the right horizontal stabilizer, and the vertical stabilizer relatively intact. They are smoked stained, and the stain feathers out toward the back along the fuselage and the front parts of the horizontal vertical stabilizers. This strongly suggests to me that he was on fire even before he crashed.

Judy

Flywriter,

The crash site is nowhere near the Helena airport. It is fairly close to the Canyon Ferry strip and indeed just downhill from the 2007 accident site.

As is always the case in these terrible accidents, it is best to wait for the official investigation to be complete before speculating on what happened. The NTSB has got it wrong before, and undoubtedly will again, but speculation here is pointless and potentially hurtful.

I for one suggest we all wait to hear what the NTSB comes up with, even though that will be a year or more.

Hopefully, we can all learn something from this accident, and I'm sure Sparky would want that outcome as well.

MTV

MTV - agreed. My apologies, and I changed my post to reflect your accurate correction.

I believe in looking at the map of where the crash site was, that perhaps Canyon Ferry is what was meant, not Helena Airport. You are right to point out that error. In the wake of something like this, emotions can and do sadly affect accuracy and perceptions. Speculation is indeed pointless and potentially hurtful ~ the latter being behind my reaction this morning to the comment by Mr. Brown....

Sparky indeed would be the first to want the facts revealed, so that yes ... any lessons to be learned from what sadly happened ... can be.

In looking at several photos Sparky's crash site is about 1 mile west of Hwy 287 2.5 miles south west of the Canyon Ferry airport -if you go to google maps
and look up Townsend,MT go north 7-8 miles north just west of highway 287 . There are trucks ,people houses ,ball games etc. all around that area. With the fire and smoke I find it hard to belive that someone didn't report at least the fire and smoke.

MVT,

You are absolutely right. We really shouldn't speculate.

Judy

Been off the grid for a few days playing in the UT backcountry. Now that I'm back to work and at a computer...I find this. So sad. I always wanted to hear Sparky speak, but it seemed like something always got in the way. I thought I would finally have the chance last Fall at the UBCP fly-in in Huntington, UT, but then it was cancelled. Tailwinds Sparky, and thanks for the lessons taught.

Flywriter wrote :

First I have to say - that Jeff Brown of Jackson Hole Aviation strikes me as an ignorant human being who should probably keep his opinions to himself ... what an asinine statement to make about a man who's whole career was dedicated to pilot safety. I won't dignify his stupidity by quoting him, but unequivocably let me say - and I could get countless intelligent and experienced pilots to back me up on this - he could not ... be more wrong.

And I feel - as sad as I am to have to share this - that some "facts" should be put out there as they're known at this point ... to stop conjectures (including my own; I think we all try to figure out a why for things that seem so sadly senseless, in an effort to make ourselves feel better. I know I do anyway.)

I received an e-mail last night from my friend, a man who is a very close friend to Sparky and who flew out from CA to Montana Tuesday night to help with the search. What he shared as far as facts known at this point, puts to rest any guessing that this was weather related, or even medical as I have been thinking - what's known now seems to point to mechanical. And I think it will remove reason for any thought that this man did anything at the end but be the exceptional pilot he was ~ and fly his plane.
........................................................................................................................................


This was posted by someone who has obviously not witnessed Sparky and some of his "stunts" over a 30 year period. Jeff has, and he commented on what he personally saw. I fly with Jeff and he is a safe and good pilot. He does not pull stunts off like Sparky did this last Sunday. That in itself demonstrated very poor piloting skills by Mr Imeson. Far from someone who dedicated his whole career to pilot safety. Don't get me wrong, Sparky did ignite the imagination for mountain flying to alot of people, he will be known for that. This is one case where gravity tugged on supermans cape and gravity won... Godspeed Sparky.


Ben.
Jackson Hole Wy

Damn, just caught up on the outcome of this event, horrible news. I never met the man but I am familiar with the name and his contributions. Regardless of why he went down or what his personal limits were, it is a tragic loss. Condolences to the family.

Stol wrote:This was posted by someone who has obviously not witnessed Sparky and some of his "stunts" over a 30 year period. Jeff has, and he commented on what he personally saw. I fly with Jeff and he is a safe and good pilot. He does not pull stunts off like Sparky did this last Sunday. That in itself demonstrated very poor piloting skills by Mr Imeson. Far from someone who dedicated his whole career to pilot safety. Don't get me wrong, Sparky did ignite the imagination for mountain flying to alot of people, he will be known for that. This is one case where gravity tugged on supermans cape and gravity won... Godspeed Sparky. Ben. Jackson Hole Wy

I recall the discussion two years ago. about the first crash and questions about the "tack" Sparky's Mountain Flying Service was taking. Some were concerned about whether it was a good idea gone bad or a high risk adventure for thrills. This "cut and paste" from the Billings paper indicates he was going back to photograph the site of the first crash.
--------------------------------------------------

BILLINGS, Mont. (AP) — Friends of a veteran pilot killed in a crash in southern Montana say he had set out to photograph the site where he had crashed two years ago.

Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board are beginning to investigate Tuesday's crash that killed Sparky Imeson of Helena.

The 64-year-old Imeson took off alone from the Bozeman airport. Two friends say he had intended to document the site of a 2007 crash in the Elkhorn Mountains that left him with a compression fracture to his back, broken ribs, a broken toe and cuts on his head.

Searchers on Thursday found the wreckage of his Cessna 180.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Most of us, in our outback flying, take some risks that aren't really necessary - it adds to the excitement> But if this very experienced pilot gets taken out by risky actions , it can be a lesson for each of us. Let us take it as his final contribution to our training.
---------------------------------------
Post Script: It could have been hypoxia. According to the most recent revelation he flew a very long period at 22000'. Without oxygen, that is deadly. http://helenair.com/articles/2009/03/21 ... _crash.txt

And yes, God speed Sparky.

Stol wrote:
This was posted by someone who has obviously not witnessed Sparky and some of his "stunts" over a 30 year period. Jeff has, and he commented on what he personally saw. I fly with Jeff and he is a safe and good pilot. He does not pull stunts off like Sparky did this last Sunday. That in itself demonstrated very poor piloting skills by Mr Imeson. Far from someone who dedicated his whole career to pilot safety. Don't get me wrong, Sparky did ignite the imagination for mountain flying to alot of people, he will be known for that. This is one case where gravity tugged on supermans cape and gravity won... Godspeed Sparky. Ben. Jackson Hole Wy

That was posted by me Ben, and no - I haven't witnessed Sparky and some of his "stunts" over a 30 year period. Knew him well enough to know he was the last person to consider himself "superman" though.

I posted what I did yesterday, rightly or wrongly, because I'm grieving and I read Mr. Browns comments and personally foound them offensive and unfair under the circumstances knowing what I do about Sparky. Until the facts are out, no one knows what happened. Since we have lost the man, let's wait for those facts now out of respect ... regardless of personal opinion.

Seems to me Sparky has earned over his lifetime of dedication to aviation and the advancement of safe mountain flying, the benefit of the doubt.

I think is was Eyore who said, "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all."

Wise a**.....

(That one was for you Sparky....)

Man I hate to see this sort of thing. Sorry for his family and all you out there who knew Sparky. I did not know him but sounds like he was quite a guy. I looked at his history in aviation and it blew my mind. Good golly, 20,000 hrs in non airline flying! And all the books. This guy was a walking flight school. What a sad loss.

I just saw the photo's of the crash site. I too will not give in to temtation to give my theory on what happened, but this is a bit mystifying. From the looks of the photo's, this was some wide open area with seemingly lots of options for a forced landing. It seems a guy with Sparky's talent would have no trouble with a forced landing yet from the photo's this was anything but a controlled off airport landing. It looks like a very hard impact with wreckage spread out. Something really went wrong there.

Some people have mentioned the "hypoxia" thing reffering to his flight 2 days before up to 24,000 ft. I have no idea if hypoxia has lasting effects but it can sure be deady at the time your experiencing it. There is a web site (cant remember which one, maybe AOPA) where they have a actual recording of a pilot talking to controller when suffering from hypoxia. He can hardy speak. It sounds like he's completely smashed. Again, I have no knowledge if it has lasting effects.

My condolences to all who are affected by Sparky's untimely death. Stay safe out there. Complacency kills.

I didn't know Sparky personally, but I read his books with great appreciation. His work has certainly helped me to be a better back country pilot. My condolences to his family.

Godspeed, Sparky.

Jack

Seems to me that a policy of "what happens in another forum, stays in the other forum" might be wise. Telling us about your argument with another member of AOPA (with him not here to respond to your insult) serves no purpose.

On the other hand, I appreciate the updates. In the end it is what can be learned from these types of events that is important, alongside mourning.

"Seems to me that a policy of "what happens in another forum, stays in the other forum" might be wise. Telling us about your argument with another member of AOPA (with him not here to respond to your insult) serves no purpose."

Respectfully? Wrong. This was not an "argument" with another member of AOPA.

The original quote that angered me was from Jeff Brown and was given to the press, appearing in a newspaper report to the general public. That was done "after" Sparky's plane was found. To me? Unconscionable to cast aspersions like that on the man's reputation right after he's died, without the facts surrounding the crash being known.

Yes - it made me angry, and I felt it only fair to Sparky's memory to say so.

Here's the pertinent part of what I posted:

Quote:
"Jeff Brown, president of Jackson Hole Aviation, said Imeson was a known risk taker. “Knowing Sparky, he pushes weather all the time,” he said. “If you play with airplanes and weather long enough, sooner or later it’s going to get you.”

This was the comment made by the AOPA Forum member who posted the quote: Why would someone make a comment like that. I have seen no mention that weather is being considered as a factor.

Please note it was the AOPA Forum member who merely asked "why would someone make a comment like that ..."

I thought that was a really good question.

I still do.

I was going to post this under Rob's rememberance thread, but then it occured to me that it's more appropriate to post here. It will perhaps explain why I have the perspective about Sparky that I do, and why I felt so compelled to respond the way I have to accusations that malign his memory. It will hopefully too, rightly offer some positive reflections on the man ... and the pilot.

This is a segment from the piece on Sparky from my book project:

One of the questions I have asked each pilot I interview is to describe their thoughts, and share what it felt like to take their first solo flight; to fly for the first time alone without an instructor. Responses have varied from emotional - “I cried” - to profound and philosophical - “there’s not another feeling in the world quite like that accomplishment.” Sparky’s response was to tell me he wondered, “What am I doing here?” He’s been known to write magazine articles about backcountry fly-in trips in extremely cold weather that left him wondering if anyone had a spare “patootie” for him because he had froze his own off; he’s fast with a bad pun; always appreciative of a good joke. Yet ask the man if he feels a sense of humor is important in life, he’ll say he feels his own is warped, and it probably diminishes his ability to fly. Then he’ll smile …

Sparky holds to the philosophy that the only way to expand your horizons in life is to challenge yourself by doing things you haven’t done before. That isn’t a new or novel concept, nor is it particularly a philosophy that someone wouldn’t possibly already hold to be true in their own lives. But why and how a person challenges themselves in life is reflective of the person doing the challenging. Sparky aspires to expand his horizons and challenge himself, but not with a sense of daring, or tempting fate. To the contrary, this is a methodical man who approaches everything in his life with a conscious and educated desire. His goals are accomplished by analyzing the task and then putting a priority on obtaining the necessary knowledge to accomplish that task to the best of his ability in the safest manner possible, “I pre-analyze what I want to do, try to develop all the good and bad scenario things that could occur, and then weight the risk against the benefit. Often the benefit does not justify the risk…so I avoid it.”

I would bet that nearly everyone on this forum who's worked airplanes for a living has, at one time or another, had folks question their judgement in a given situation. Sometimes those questions are valid, sometimes they are just misinformed.

There are pilots who it would seem, everyone consider to be "dead men walking" until they die, either in an airplane or otherwise.

I recall returning to Fairbanks one summer day, where I'd had to dodge around thunderstorms to get back to FAI. There was a CB just NE of the airport, moving toward the airport as I approached from the north. Winds were really picking up from the N as well. Unfortunately, due to unforseen events, including the weather, my fuel reserve had gone from one hour down to 25 minutes at this point, in an airplane that consumed copious quantities of fuel. There really wasn't anyplace much better to go at that point, there was another big CB just west, blocking the route out to Minto Flats.

So, I got clearance to make a left pattern, and landed straight into a 40 knot gusty wind as the gust front hit. I had already figured out where I was going to park the plane, in a friend's slip, who had his plane on the bank. That slip meant I could land and taxi straight into it. By the time I hit the beach, there were four friends there to grab lines, and help secure the plane.

One of those fellows launched into me about my reckless flying. At length. After getting my butt chewed out for some time by him, I explained that the air was smooth, right to the touch, I had the parking spot figured out, and I really didn't have any prettier options at that point.

Nevertheless, he made a good point--dancing with thunderstorms, even relatively mild ones that occur in northern Alaska, is a notably bad idea. I appreciated his concern, and to this day, I think about this episode any time there are thunderstorms around.

Had I to do that flight again, I'd probably do exactly the same thing again, however. He wasn't in the plane--I was. I still appreciate his concern, and his willingness to share those concerns with ME, instead of telling all his buddies what an idiot I am....

My point is that offering CONSTRUCTIVE comments on a friend's flying to their face, while they are still around is a great idea.

Commenting on someone's piloting skills or judgement after they are dead makes little sense to me.

As noted, there are some of those "Dead men walking" types out there, who we all believe will one day bite it. Even with those folks, (and I certainly don't think Sparky fell into that category) give THEM the feedback. Show them that you care. While it might actually do some good.

MTV

mtv wrote:I would bet that nearly everyone on this forum who's worked airplanes for a living has, at one time or another, had folks question their judgement in a given situation. Sometimes those questions are valid, sometimes they are just misinformed.

There are pilots who it would seem, everyone consider to be "dead men walking" until they die, either in an airplane or otherwise.

I recall returning to Fairbanks one summer day, where I'd had to dodge around thunderstorms to get back to FAI. There was a CB just NE of the airport, moving toward the airport as I approached from the north. Winds were really picking up from the N as well. Unfortunately, due to unforseen events, including the weather, my fuel reserve had gone from one hour down to 25 minutes at this point, in an airplane that consumed copious quantities of fuel. There really wasn't anyplace much better to go at that point, there was another big CB just west, blocking the route out to Minto Flats.

So, I got clearance to make a left pattern, and landed straight into a 40 knot gusty wind as the gust front hit. I had already figured out where I was going to park the plane, in a friend's slip, who had his plane on the bank. That slip meant I could land and taxi straight into it. By the time I hit the beach, there were four friends there to grab lines, and help secure the plane.

One of those fellows launched into me about my reckless flying. At length. After getting my butt chewed out for some time by him, I explained that the air was smooth, right to the touch, I had the parking spot figured out, and I really didn't have any prettier options at that point.

Nevertheless, he made a good point--dancing with thunderstorms, even relatively mild ones that occur in northern Alaska, is a notably bad idea. I appreciated his concern, and to this day, I think about this episode any time there are thunderstorms around.

Had I to do that flight again, I'd probably do exactly the same thing again, however. He wasn't in the plane--I was. I still appreciate his concern, and his willingness to share those concerns with ME, instead of telling all his buddies what an idiot I am....

My point is that offering CONSTRUCTIVE comments on a friend's flying to their face, while they are still around is a great idea.

Commenting on someone's piloting skills or judgement after they are dead makes little sense to me.

As noted, there are some of those "Dead men walking" types out there, who we all believe will one day bite it. Even with those folks, (and I certainly don't think Sparky fell into that category) give THEM the feedback. Show them that you care. While it might actually do some good.

MTV

Here's mine some 40 plus years ago ___________ I still remember this day as it could have me.

Name: WO1 Peter Paul Polak
Status: Killed In Action from an incident on 02/21/1969 while performing the duty of Pilot.
Age at death: 22.3
Date of Birth: 10/22/1946
Home City: Cable, WI
Service: AV branch of the reserve component of the U.S. Army.
Unit: 116 AHC, 269 CAB
Major organization: 1st Aviation Brigade
Flight class: 68-13/68-21
Service: AV branch of the U.S. Army.
The Wall location: 32W-072
Short Summary: Crash near Go De Hau bridge w/CPT Jack Rose. Hornets at Cu Chi. flying in Bill Reid's place because Bill had a dentist appointment.
Aircraft: UH-1C tail number 66-00661
Call sign: Stinger
Service number: W3161677
Country: South Vietnam
MOS: 062B = Helicopter Pilot, Utility and Light Cargo Single Rotor
Primary cause: A/C Accident
Major attributing cause: aircraft connected not at sea
Compliment cause: fire or burns
Vehicle involved: helicopter
Position in vehicle: pilot
Started Tour: 10/17/1968

Here's the rest ________________

Helicopter UH-1C 66-00661

Information on U.S. Army helicopter UH-1C tail number 66-00661
The Army purchased this helicopter 1166
Total flight hours at this point: 00001726
Date: 02/21/1969
Incident number: 690221091ACD Accident case number: 690221091 Total loss or fatality Accident
Unit: 116 AHC
The station for this helicopter was Cu Chi in South Vietnam
UTM grid coordinates: XT383254
Number killed in accident = 4 . . Injured = 0 . . Passengers = 0
costing 510415
Original source(s) and document(s) from which the incident was created or updated: Defense Intelligence Agency Helicopter Loss database. Army Aviation Safety Center database. Also: OPERA (Operations Report. )
Loss to Inventory

Crew Members:
AC CPT ROSE HARRY QUINCY KIA
P WO1 POLAK PETER PAUL KIA
CE SP5 WILSHER EVERETT NELSON KIA
G SP4 SCOTT WILLIAM BLAKE KIA


Accident Summary:

 THE AIRCRAFT INVOLVED WAS FLYING AS LEAD SHIP IN A HEAVY FIRE TEAM, IT WAS ARMED WITH ^XM-156^MULTIPLE ARMAMENT MOUNTS AND ^XM-159^ NINETEEN POUND ROCKET PODS. THE PODS WERE LOADED WITH A TOTAL OF ^28 2.75 INCH. FFAR WITH 17 POUND^ WARHEADS AND VT FUSES. THE FIRE TEAM HAD BEEN OPERATING WEST OF ^TAY NINH, RVN^, IN SUPPORT OF TROOP CARRIER ^UH-1D^AIRCRAFT MAKING COMBAT ASSAULTS. UPON COMPLETION OF THE ASSAULTS, THE HEAVY FIRE TEAM DEPARTED THE ^TAY NINH^ AREA FOR THEIR HOME BASE AT ^CU CHI, RVN^. THEIR ROUTE WAS VIA MSR'S AS IS STANDARD PRACTICE. AS THE LEAD SHIP PASSED THE NORTHERN EDGE OF THE VILLAGE OF ^GO DA HA, RVN^, MEMBERS OF THE CREWS OF THE NUMBERS 2 AND 3 SHIPS SAW SOMETHING FLY FROM THE AIRCRAFT. THE OBJECT WAS DESCRIBED AS BEING APPROXIMATELY FOUR FEET LONG AND WAS BELIEVED TO BE A TAIL ROTOR BLADE. THE SHIP STARTED A SLOW YAWING MOVEMENT TO THE RIGHT AND PITCHED INTO A STEEP DIVE, ESTIMATED TO BE APPROXIMATELY 80 DEGREES NOSE DOWN. SIMULTANEOUSLY, THE TAIL BOOM ON THE SHIP BEGAN TO SEPARATE ON THE LEFT SIDE, FOLDING SLOWLY TO THE RIGHT. THE TAIL BOOM CONTINUED TO FAIL UNTIL IT COMPLETELY SEPARATED FROM THE AIRCRAFT AT APPROXIMATELY 100 FEET ALTITUDE AND JUST PRIOR TO IMPACT. THE AIRCRAFT THEN IMPACTED IN AN ESTIMATED 80 DEGREE NOSE DOWN ATTITUDE AND A SLIGHT ROLL TO THE RIGHT. THE AIRCRAFT WAS SEEN TO EXPLODE AT THE TOPS OF TREES AT THE CRASH SITE, EXPLODING IN FLAMES BEFORE FINAL IMPACT. THE TREES WERE APPROXIMATELY 50 FEET IN HEIGHT. THE CRASH SITE WAS IN A SMALL HOUSING COMPLEX. ONE THATCHED SHELTER WAS DESTROYED BY FLAMES AND ANOTHER SHELTER IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE POINT OF IMPACT WAS EXTENSIVELY DAMAGED. THERE WERE NO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. A FORCE ^OF VIETNAMESE REGIONAL FORCES^ SECURED THE AREA APPROXIMATELY ONE AND ONE-HALF MINUTES AFTER THE CRASH.\\


War Story:
The following recollection of incidents and events of that day in regard to the loss of AC, UH1C 66-00661 and crew listed above follows. The morning of 690221 the 187th AHC who was in support of infantry units contacted 269th CAB and requested a Smoke Ship from the 116th AHC to cover final extractions. Ground units had been in and out of contact all day. Cdr. 116th AHC elected to send a flight of 10 UH1D lift aircraft, a heavy fire team of Stinger gun ships and I volunteered to fly the Smoke Ship. I departed Cu Chi immediately and proceeded to the area of the LZ where I was briefed by the Crusaders C&C (187th AHC) The ground elements felt that they had been followed back to the PZ area and during the first extraction of infantry the flight had received automatic gunfire on lift off from the West and North of the PZ. The Rat Pack returned fire and several aircraft received hits. The 187th Smoke aircraft flying between the friendly troops in the PZ and the enemy fire received many hits and followed the Crusaders and Rat Pack back to Tay Ninh to rearm and refuel and check for combat damage. Subsequently the Rat Pack Smoke Ship was grounded due to combat damage. This event precipitated the request by the C&C for a Smoke Ship from the 269th CAB. On arrival in the AO, the C&C briefed me that he had 20 more sticks (2 Lifts of 10) in the PZ, and of the enemy fire received during the first extraction. The Crusaders had not arrived back to the AO, and the Hornets were still enroute. The decision was made to bring the Hornets in for the next extraction as they reported the RP first. The Hornets, were directed to orbit the RP while the Stinger Heavy fire team, led by Jack Rose and Crew proceeded to the LZ area. Stinger Lead, was briefed by the Crusaders C&C and myself as to the events prior to his arrival. We planned a route for me to fly which would provide the best obscuration for the lift element w/o obscuring the PZ w/ smoke, shifted the arty to the North West, and brought the Hornets in Stagger Trail Right w/ full outside door gun suppression. Jack Rose picked up a position aprox, 500 meters in front and below Hornet Lead in order to be able to identify the LZ to Hornet Lead and mark the touchdown point with smoke. The 2 remaining gun ships took positions to the right/rear side of the flight in order to be able to suppress the likely enemy positions during the approach, and along the egress route from the PZ. During the Hornet extraction there was moderate fire received on short final, and during lift off from the PZ by the Lift elements. I had received many hits during that extraction which is not unusual due to the mission of the smoke ship. As the Hornets departed the PZ area, the Stingers returned to the PZ and expended ordinance on identified enemy positions and then departed for Cu Chi. In the meantime I escorted the Final extraction elements of the Crusader flight and received ground fire again. As the Crusaders departed for their DZ I was released by the C&C and started my solo flight back to CC. After climbing up to aprox. 500 feet I switched my radios back to Hornet frequencies just in time to hear Jacks flight call for artillery clearance from a position near Gau De Hau Bridge. After the flight received clearance to CC, I called Stinger Lead " 96 this is 99, I'm about 5 mikes behind ya, how about giving me an orbit so I can catch up, I've taken a few hits but it shouldn't be a problem" As soon as I un keyed my mike, I think it was Paul Buksar called me back and said that 96 just crashed. For someone to suggest that the crew of that aircraft died as a result of anything but hostile fire is ludicrous, several aircraft of the 187th AHC were not able to return to the fight which was the reason the 116th was called in to augment in the first place. The second lift conducted by the 116th received an equal amount of enemy fire as did the final extraction. Time has taken it's toll as to a more detailed explanation of events. The only reason I retain the memory I do is because of the lost of one of our crews. Patrick J Ronan USA Ret

This record was last updated on 03/29/2003

Flywriter wrote:
The original quote that angered me was from Jeff Brown and was given to the press, appearing in a newspaper report to the general public. That was done "after" Sparky's plane was found. To me? Unconscionable to cast aspersions like that on the man's reputation right after he's died, without the facts surrounding the crash being known.

My mistake, and I apologize. I had stopped watching that AOPA thread because it was becoming less-than-constructive.

Mr. Brown is entitled to his opinion which appears to be based in his own experiences with Imeson...but this does not appear to be connected to weather from all I have seen and read and his press quote seems quite superfluous. Mike's posts above mostly capture my thoughts so I will leave it at that though I do take one issue with something you said, Mike.

The NTSB reports are full of the names of dead pilots who if they were still here could point to poor judgment as the reason for their demise. While it is infinitely more productive to say the hard truth to the one pilot who needs to hear it the most while he/she is still alive - true - some of us try to learn from all of the factors surrounding someone else's crash even if some people consider it spitting on a grave.