whats up guys, first post here

Been fighting the temptation to buy floats for months and think im just about to give in. Im a fairly new 37yo private pilot but averaging at least an hour a day, and constantly over water here in the foothills in Northern Ca. Im fortunate to be hangared on a private dirt/grass strip with about 1750ft of usable runway with lots of surrounding lakes and ponds.

My plane is a unique bird being a Cessna 162, which invites some unique challenges which may be blessings in disguise. In the process of going ELSA, and plan to slap on a (possibly IFA) ivoprop and some VGs on asap after to see how much of a performance boost I get. I'll of course be limited by the 1430# MTOW but I have a feeling this is truly a 1550lb possible plane (read somewhere Cessna was trying for this weight increase before scrapping them). Also have tons of rudder authority so think im good there.

Question is about the different amphibious floats available, the rigging challenge, and possibly my limited power. So far ive gathered:

Aerocets 1500s are out. Supply chain issues and ridiculous 60k price tag, but considering their GC700 gear indicator system to prevent killing my kid.
Clamar 1450s are mid 40s which seems equally insane but they have shock suspension systems (I think?) on front and rear gear and are supposedly 250lbs with rigging. These could be the lightest option.
Zenair 1450s. Reasonably priced for a DIY, though building looks like a PIA from the videos im seeing. NO suspension
FloatCZ out of Czech. Decent price and all electric actuators with new shocks on the main gear. but also 120lbs each before rigging...

Seems like a year or more project with anticipated waiting/build times for all. saw some Legend 1500As on barnstormers that could get me going quick but the gear looks kind of small and not sure if they were any good.

My current nosegear system has an interesting urethane shock which may be able to get tweaked a bit to handle the 250lbs of hanging weight, but direct mounting to the lower engine mounts where the trunnion mounts will likely be the route I take, but I still wonder...

Also considering fabbing some 1ft wing extensions to help but I currently only need a couple hundred feet of runway before lifting off. Seems the 162 airfoil is shaped very differently than everything else that ive seen... but I think the o200D will need all the help it can get.

Anyways any other tips or things needed to have a successful float plane?

Cheers

I'm not familiar with the FAA LSA rules, is that airplane on a C of A of some sort. If so does the TCDS identify "approved" floats for it ?

Opinion only....I'd be on the look out for a plane that is already floated. The cost and headaches you are going to experience in putting floats on the Cessna 162 are many!! I have never heard of a Bug catcher ,sorry, Skycatcher ever having been converted to a floatplane. Not saying a person can't get it done, but it will be an arduous task, not even mentioning the costs involved, especially if you are wanting amphibs. You might want to start by getting an insurance quote, you might want to be seated when you receive that quote!

You're going to have to engineer or have float fittings installed on the plane, which is not cheap either. Many years ago, I wanted to install floats on my old 172. I soon found out that I could buy another plane already equipped with floats for less cost!! Actually bought a sweet Champ on floats from a guy that used to contribute to this site. It was heavily modified, but I learned a lot in the plane. Got my SES rating, flew the heck out of it for several years before selling it, which was a big mistake. Wished I had kept it.

I've only got around 400 hours of float time, and the insurance cost for amphibs is way more than I can handle. Even straight floats can be a bit expensive, but at least somewhat doable.

I've got a RANS S-7 that I just put on amphibious floats last fall. The additional drag and weight made for higher oil temps so I haven't flown it but a couple of hours. Waiting on a larger oil cooler to install. Hopefully should get it done before the ice clears this spring. Having said that, I am seriously contemplating selling the plane as my floatplane days are seriously dwindling. It is the most fun flying I have ever experienced though. Just food for thought.

I realize this sounds a bit negative but what was said above is absolutely spot on.

I’d sell the 162 and get something designed for floats, it’ll cost less, take less time, be a better plane, better ROI if you sell, etc etc

I can’t think of a single reason to go down the rabbit hole of trying to float a plane that wasn’t intended to float, unless you just love that 162 that much, but you’re going to have more time and money into that thing that I could fathom to do this

Also if you think 60k is a lot of money, I think you’re going to be way over that to float the 162

Per the glass screen not killing your kid, that’s just training man, people land out of config with all sorts of cool fancy alarm systems going off
Back in my training capt days flying amphib caravans we has a friggin laser on the wing that would sense water or land, still had a new guy who would have landed it gear up (which is better than gear down on water) despite the voice and all the other stuff, I ended up waiting and waiting and saying on short final “sooo about the gear”



Get a rans or champ or something and get some good training at southern seaplanes with their full dunk course

WWhunter wrote:Opinion only....I'd be on the look out for a plane that is already floated. The cost and headaches you are going to experience in putting floats on the Cessna 162 are many!! I have never heard of a Bug catcher ,sorry, Skycatcher ever having been converted to a floatplane. Not saying a person can't get it done, but it will be an arduous task, not even mentioning the costs involved, especially if you are wanting amphibs. You might want to start by getting an insurance quote, you might want to be seated when you receive that quote!

You're going to have to engineer or have float fittings installed on the plane, which is not cheap either. Many years ago, I wanted to install floats on my old 172. I soon found out that I could buy another plane already equipped with floats for less cost!! Actually bought a sweet Champ on floats from a guy that used to contribute to this site. It was heavily modified, but I learned a lot in the plane. Got my SES rating, flew the heck out of it for several years before selling it, which was a big mistake. Wished I had kept it.

I've only got around 400 hours of float time, and the insurance cost for amphibs is way more than I can handle. Even straight floats can be a bit expensive, but at least somewhat doable.

I've got a RANS S-7 that I just put on amphibious floats last fall. The additional drag and weight made for higher oil temps so I haven't flown it but a couple of hours. Waiting on a larger oil cooler to install. Hopefully should get it done before the ice clears this spring. Having said that, I am seriously contemplating selling the plane as my floatplane days are seriously dwindling. It is the most fun flying I have ever experienced though. Just food for thought.

400 is enough I’d think you’d be past all the milestones for seaplane insurance, you got a instrument and good TT and everything too?

Seems after not all that many hours the rates and as good as they are going to get

Yeah not too interested in buying an already floated plane. Love this 162 very much and don’t feel like downgrading with someone else’s shotty 40 year old headache.

If anything I would build a kitfox but let’s go off what would help this skycatcher. Not interested in spending 250k.

let’s keep in mind the play here. LSAs are much lighter and cheaper than what maybe the most of you are used to. Idk how you expect the project to exceed $60k with $20k floats. Nothing needs certification…

don’t see how rigging is going to be a giant engineering challenge. There’s CG, spreader width, incidence, rise, and cable routing. Am I missing something?

Would you guys recommend an ultralight guy wanting puddle jumpers to jump ship?

Likely not an answer you want to hear but in my opinion you are severely under estimating the magnitude of the task proposed. You will need a lot more than just VG's and a prop to achieve the required performance float operations requires. For what you will have in it by the time its all completed you could keep your beloved Skycatcher and have an absolutely beautiful 40 year old, much loved and well cared for float plane as well.

Skywagons University has a video in which they describe all of the reinforcements that make up the Cessna float kit. After seeing that, I wouldn’t want to be the first to float a Skycatcher. But maybe you’re an engineer or have some other way of reassuring yourself about the structure. And then there are things like lateral stability. Will it need a ventral fin? Are you prepared to do the flight testing that demonstrates a ventral fin is needed?

On cost, you could keep the Skycatcher and buy a Searey for less than floating the Skycatcher. Someone else mentioned insurance. I’d surprised if you could even get liability on a 162 on amphibs,

Finally, I know you’re happy with the 162 and want to keep it. But if you put it on floats, it won’t be the same airplane. If I were you, I’d be looking at GlaStars and Sportsmans.

You might make this work. If you do, you’ll get the cover of the June, 2044 issue of Sport Aviation. The text will begin: “37-year-old Joe Bloggs had a dream of putting a Cessna 162 on amphibious floats. The result is this beautiful Eyecatcher, which Bloggs finally got to see fly last April, 19 years after the project began. ‘No one said it would be easy, and it hasn’t been,’ he says, ‘but it’s been a labor of love.” . . . .

You guys keep saying “it would cost less” without anything to back up that statement

Thanks for the Skywagon university tip, found his page when I began flying (he had a skycatcher and loved it) and he’s incredibly knowledgeable.

I am an engineer albeit far from an aeronautical one, though I do think there are major major differences between a plane that weighs twice as much and the little 162.

Flight design put the CTLS LSA on floats. So did technam. No major changes. Ventral stability is certainly added when needed, but the skycatcher has lots of it already with the addition of the keel and rudder extension that cessna slapped on to prevent spinning.. but perhaps more is possible.

Windshield V brace, lifting hooks, and maybe an exhaust extension are the only things I can gather that I need (thanks to skywagon). Are those $40k and 20 years to produce?

Get real people.

RyanR wrote:You guys keep saying “it would cost less” without anything to back up that statement ......
Windshield V brace and lifting hooks are the only things I can gather that I need. Are those $40k to produce?

The kit to float the CTLS was 42k in 2011 dollars: https://generalaviationnews.com/2011/02 ... on-floats/

I'm excited to see a floated 162. Although, I must admit that it seems like the longest possible path to float flying nirvana.

Which at least 35k was for the carbon fiber clamar floats. That comparison is like asking the dealership to install aftermarket parts on your vehicle. You’re going to pay out the ass for labor.

RyanR wrote:You guys keep saying “it would cost less” without anything to back up that statement

Thanks for the Skywagon university tip, found his page when I began flying (he had a skycatcher and loved it) and he’s incredibly knowledgeable.

I am an engineer albeit far from an aeronautical one, though I do think there are major major differences between a plane that weighs twice as much and the little 162.

Flight design put the CTLS LSA on floats. So did technam. No major changes. Ventral stability is certainly added when needed, but the skycatcher has lots of it already with the addition of the fin and rudder extension that cessna slapped on to prevent spinning.. but perhaps more is possible.

Windshield V brace and lifting hooks are the only things I can gather that I need. Are those $40k to produce?

The 162 is a FAA certified standard airworthiness aircraft right?

Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know much about the 162s, was never a certified float kit/install for these guys?

If the above two are correct aside from reinforcements floats and rigging this is going to be a paperwork and certification heavy challenge, have you talked to your APIA about you just fabricating and bolting all this stuff on and him signing it off?

I’d wager it’ll have to go much beyond him, have you called your local FSDO and asked them?

Here’s the story of a guy who put a small 150hp turbine on his luscombe, he says he had over $300,000.00 into it once it was flying, he was trying to sell it for about 60k

https://www.flyingmag.com/pilots-places ... sale-ebay/

Think maybe the best chance you have is to try to get it converted to a experimental, but that’s going to have some limitations as well


Add to that if you didn’t want a 40yr old plane think it is going to be a mess, with all the drill cut install, remove adjust, drill cut install your 162 is going to end up needing for all your testing to end up a acceptable float plane (even FAA aside), if it ends up working safely in the first place, it’s not going to have that newish airplane look or feel I’d imagine

Per the costs on that float kit, I think the real number would be to call the manufacture and ask how much time money they had in to get it designed and ready up to the final test flight

Ethers way I hope it works, sounds like a heck of a project, I agree with the others that it would be faster/cheaper/easier to just buy a searey or something and also keep the 162 however


Ether way, if it was never certified as a float plane, my first round of work would be talking with my APIA and the FSDO

But I’d be really interested in hearing about your progress on this project if you go forward with it

Nothing on an ELSA needs to be certified. I can do anything to the plane I want.

Look into ELSA. yes the 162 is a certified SLSA, but it’s being converted to experimental. I’m also taking a LSRI course later this year to do my own annuals.

Only limitation I will have is LSA occupancy and weight.. and I guess VH of 120 knots

Only “cuts” would be in the lower cowl if I didn’t make a bracket to utilize the stock nose gear trunnion which is undecided, and small grommets for the cables.

Rear rigging bracket would be made similarly to a 185, it would slide into the gear opening and bolt in.

I’m not seeing the challenge…

RyanR wrote:You guys keep saying “it would cost less” without anything to back up that statement

Thanks for the Skywagon university tip, found his page when I began flying (he had a skycatcher and loved it) and he’s incredibly knowledgeable.

I am an engineer albeit far from an aeronautical one, though I do think there are major major differences between a plane that weighs twice as much and the little 162.

Flight design put the CTLS LSA on floats. So did technam. No major changes. Ventral stability is certainly added when needed, but the skycatcher has lots of it already with the addition of the keel and rudder extension that cessna slapped on to prevent spinning.. but perhaps more is possible.

Windshield V brace, lifting hooks, and maybe an exhaust extension are the only things I can gather that I need (thanks to skywagon). Are those $40k and 20 years to produce?

Get real people.

I understand the defensiveness, but would posit that *most* here don't really want to potty in your cornflakes. This won't be an easy task.
From my viewpoint - first step would be ELSA. Not sure how hard that'd be but I'd be working closely with an A&P and DAR from day one.
From there, a very good relationship with an A&P willing to sign off on whatever you're going to need.
I've got a 180 with a float kit, not sure if you could mimic float fittings from the bigger siblings of the Cessna line or not but that's probably where I'd start.
For the floats, sounds like maybe Zenairs are your best bet(I've not flown them, can't comment on qualities). If you want cheap(er), sometimes that means PIA. Typical Cheap/Fast/Good pick 2.
But again - before you do anything else, a chat with your insurance agent is in order. When Harrison Ford needs to cry for a scene he calls his agent for an Amphib quote, works every time. You *might* find a broker who can get you liability if you can afford to self insure hull...
While a 162 on floats wouldn't be my cup of tea, I still say go for it if you're die-hard. Sounds like you really like the plane, which we can all appreciate.

At the end of the day though, I'd guess this would be the rare situation where it'd be cheaper, easier, and faster to find a plane already outfitted or built for floats. So you'd really have to decide whether you want to fly floats, or do you want to fly *your 162* on floats.

Did the CTLS and technam have the same airfoil, tail, wings, or fuselage?

No one even knows if when all is said and done if the 162 will even make for a well mannered good float plane

Might end up spending all the time and cash to mess up and majorly devalue your existing good 162 only to make a crappy floatplane

Some of the tailwheel STCs come to mind, folks really wanted to make their trike into a tailwheel, bought a STC that was more proven and more tested than what you’re doing and ended up with a so so tailwheel plane and a good bit less $$
Ref: https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/texa ... r-c172-656

You asked a question, your getting feedback you don't like and faulting the messengers.

I wish you the best of luck, cheers

Keep us posted on any progress. I personally would like to put a Tomahawk on Aerocets. Luckily there's some supporting data for its elderly cousin:

ANY airplane project is going to take far longer than you think, and cost way more than you think.
Regulations and approvals aside, it’s a very big project. Others here with significant amounts of knowledge have expressed their opinions, and it’s pretty much the same thing from all of them. That should tell you something.
I did my own panel in my 180, all certified parts, had a wiring harness made up, it still took me 6 weeks of 8 hour days from start to finish. A panel is a lot easier than designing, engineering, and fabricating floats on something that’s never had them.
Good luck if you try, I’d wager to say it will take years to get it done and working. Whether it’s a good float plane will not be known until it’s done.

Mapleflt wrote:You asked a question, your getting feedback you don't like and faulting the messengers.

I wish you the best of luck, cheers

My sentiments exactly! We are all just trying to help and answer from our experiences. I would happen to guess that the majority of members responding to your inquiry have decades of flying/buying/selling different planes over the years. I've been in this game for 37+ years, basically since you were born. I've made many of the mistakes that I hope others don't as it costs time and money.

All of us have probably had questions and dreams similar to yours over the years, and we have learned from these experiences. We are just trying to pass our experience and knowledge on to the next generation. What you do with that info can either lead you to the school of hard knocks, or help you in going further in your quest with money saved. The choice is yours.


Back to floats...Last I checked, I think the cheapest amphib floats that might fit your project would be the Zenair 1450's priced around $15000 for the kit. Add crating and shipping. Then you have to assemble the kit. This is going to take time away from your flying and other duties. Then comes the modifications to the plane, again, down time when the plane will not be able to be flown. You might get lucky and find a used set out there for a reasonable price, but there really isn't much in the way of amphibs for LS type aircraft which due to the added weight the impose. Most LSA types are very limited on UL after putting floats on, even if they get an increase in UL.
Another option might be a set of Murphy amphibs. They are fairly light. I have a set of 1800 straights and a set of 1800 amphibs (kit,still in the crate). They were making 1500 amphibs, but not sure if they still are or not.

PK, Mead, Baumann, Legend, and I'm thinking even Aerocet all made amphibs in the 1500 lb range. Most of them are hard to find other than PK since they are a recent addition to the LS market. Baumann is no longer in business, the others, I'm not sure. Wipaire started making a set (prototype) but never followed through with the project. I believe it was also due to the weight aspect. A neighbor/acquaintance let them borrow his plane for the certification. I was on the 'notify me' list when they were testing them. Legend bought them and from what I recall, they are/were making carbon fiber copies. I may have some of this info a little backwards. But this is from memory talking to Darn Hart (Legend Cub) owner. Granted, this all refers to certified aircraft.

I'm also going to say, good luck and I hope you can prove us all wrong. Please keep us posted as it could help the community immensely if you can do this on a low budget.