Hello All,

So I finally managed to find an HD nose fork (C310) for my 182p and will be going with 800 mains and 600 nose. Now that search is over, I can focus on the VG kit and have a few questions. I know that adding a Sportsman as well would do me one better, but for my needs the lesser cuffed stock airfoil with VG should do me fine.

If anyone has a set of VG's on a 182 with the stock cuffed airfoil I would be curious what approach speeds I should expect as well as stall. I do plan to test this all out up high in multiple configurations after install, but some rough numbers would be great.

Also anyone choose to paint their VG's in a color to stand out over the base airframe color. My plane base is Tan with a gold and maroon stripe. I am considering painting them Maroon instead of tan. I had the paint matched and have a few rattle cans of each color. If anyone did this, I would love to see pics.

Best regards,

Marc

[quote][ I would be curious what approach speeds I should expect as well as stall./quote]

Hello Marc,
I'd be interested in the full flap pitch angle at stall(before and after VG install). I've always been concerned with the angle being so high making forward visibility and tail strikes an potential issue(hence making VGs and unusable feature).

Go maroon for the color. I think offset colors look real good, and make them more visible for the guys fueling the plane that often knock them off.
I'm torn on VGs. On a cub or citabria wing I really like them. On a Cessna wing not as much. My personal experience is that they do not actually cause a lower stall speed. Just keep your ailerons more effective deeper into the stall. But we shouldn't be worrying about our ailerons when going that slow, that's what the rudder is for... my recommendations for customers is a cuff first, and if you really want vgs we can add them at a later date. A cuff actually lowers stall speed.

A1Skinner wrote:Go maroon for the color. I think offset colors look real good, and make them more visible for the guys fueling the plane that often knock them off.
I'm torn on VGs. On a cub or citabria wing I really like them. On a Cessna wing not as much. My personal experience is that they do not actually cause a lower stall speed. Just keep your ailerons more effective deeper into the stall. But we shouldn't be worrying about our ailerons when going that slow, that's what the rudder is for... my recommendations for customers is a cuff first, and if you really want vgs we can add them at a later date. A cuff actually lowers stall speed.

My experience as well. I have no experience with 182's but 170/180/185, both new and old leading edge conformation.

Bear in mind that basically everyone who is pontificating on their massive airspeed reduction based on installing VGs is NOT using a calibrated, flight test Airspeed probe. Changing the AOA just slightly can induce significant error in airspeed readings.

In my experience, the VGs alone do in fact soften up (I use the term mellow out) the stall break itself on Cessna wings. That's not a bad thing, but frankly, I think you'd have a hard time documenting more than a one or two knot stall speed decrease, using calibrated, certified flight test equipment.

Bear in mind that stall speed reduction advertised by the manufacturers may or may NOT be based on flight test using calibrated equipment. That's called advertising hype, frankly.

If you don't feel you need a Sportsman, why on earth would you feel like you "need" VGs? That is in fact a great wing, and the VGs aren't going to do that much for you.

One of the things I regretted on my old Cessna 170 was installing VGs instead of a Sportsman. I was not at all impressed with the VGs, and felt like I wasted that money, which I should have put into a Sportsman cuff.

MTV

Thanks for the replies everyone. After reading this, maybe its best I just do the fork upgrade and bit bigger tires and spend more time flying it in that configuration as is to then see if I feel I need to slow down any more. I don't have a lot of time on this plane yet since I bought it and have been crazy busy so I know I am already on final a bit faster than I should be as I have been slowly working toward trying to slow it up more and more as I get more familiarity with it. Basically, I know the plane has more to give in slow speed and its just a matter of time and experience with it before I feel comfortable driving it in behind the power curve.

Per what I had read seemed the VG's would give me a bit more margin, but perhaps it is all hype. Had I bought a 59 182b which is what I was originally looking for I would go Sportsman for sure, but the 182p has a mild cuff on it already and per the Sportsman site its very close to the Horton Cuff profile and figured I may not need to add the Sportsman. Most of my off airport stuff will be sedate by most peoples standards as I live in the Los Angeles area so flying into tiny strips in a deep river valley is not something I am likely to do. However there are a few decent spots nearby and I do plan to build my skills in these areas for trips to Idaho in the future and such.

Also for people saying they did not care for the VG on the Cessna wing is this the older profile or the later stock cuffed profile? I had also heard that the VG's on the elevator does help give back a bit more authority and the 182p is already nose heavy so that seems like a worthwhile upgrade.

I’ve got an L model with the Horton STOL kit installed and it’s a great flying airplane. I’ve taken it into some short strips here in Alaska and the aircraft performance outpaces my comfort level! I can make a stable approach at 60 mph (probably could go slower) and that gets me into just about anywhere I want to go.

Playing around at altitude, the stall characteristics are very gentle- I can cruise around all day with full flaps, level flight, 45mph or less (airspeed indicator is unreliable at that deck angle). If I turn or yank on the elevator, the airplane just mushes into a descent. I really have to try to get it to break or drop a wing.

I’ve toyed with the idea of putting VGs on, but for my operations, the Horton gets me where I need to go. I’m not sure if the expense is worth it.


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On my 170B the Horton cuff allows me to go slow and the VG's retain roll authority which is exactly what they are intended to do.

I have been slowly working toward trying to slow it up more and more as I get more familiarity with it.

Get a AOA. It's way better than flying airspeed. My rig has a useful load of about 1700lbs and I find the AOA very useful for flying slow at any payload and any density altitude. Sorry for going off topic.

macica wrote:

I have been slowly working toward trying to slow it up more and more as I get more familiarity with it.

Get a AOA. It's way better than flying airspeed. My rig has a useful load of about 1700lbs and I find the AOA very useful for flying slow at any payload and any density altitude. Sorry for going off topic.

Hello Macica,

Thanks for the reply. I do have an AOA in the form of a Levil Aviation BOM. I have been to busy to install it but it will be done when I do the VG install and HD nose fork mod. Its Pitot based broadcast to an Iphone I will have in the corner on the glareshield in my line of site. I will 3D print a flip up and down mount so I can get it out of my site if needed when in cruise and opened for landing config.