Hey everyone!

So, I will be moving from Hawaii to Massachusetts for a PCS move via the Navy this fall, and I really don't want to leave my Cessna 140 behind if I don't have to...

My question is this: Has anybody here ever attempted or succeeded at moving an aircraft via the military moving system? My thoughts were to disassemble and move via household goods as "POV Parts" or as a "recreational vehicle". Weight allowances wont be an issue. Hope this doesn't drift too far from BC Flying (taildragger, so it counts, right? )

Thanks for any and all input! Much appreciated!

PCS no. Too much unqualified help moving wreck out of the grower's field yes.

Make sure qualified mechanics disassemble, pack, and reassemble the airplane. Wings coming off often ends a decent airplane's career as a flying airplane.

Supply and demand could be different there. Will you inflate or deflate the value in the move?

You'll need a crate large enough to encapsulate the whole thing or risk serious damage to the plane.
Tail will probably need to come off too.
Build supports in the crate to hold and protect the wings and tail.
Then convince the military to properly ship it.

As Contact said, more airplanes are left with wings off than have the wings put back on.

When I was stationed in Italy, I looked into shipping my sailboat. In the end, it was simply not worth the effort, risk and additional cost.

This is a huge effort with a lot of risk for an airplane that can be had all day long for $20,000 stateside.

Do you have some incredible sentimental attachment to this particular 140? If not, sell it in Hawaii, save the money you'd spend coordinating the shipment and buy another one when you arrive stateside.
</$0.02>

MA eh??? Make sure you reach out. Im south of Boston.

RE: the 140, I would not advise pulling the wings. As has been said, far too much chance of it never getting back together or damaged. If you can, take the opportunity to fly it east. Would be a blast for sure.

If you dont have the time, I might be able to ferry it for you depending on when.

It's been a while since I lived in Hawaii, but I'm betting that 140 is still worth a lot more over there than it would be on the Mainland. I'd sell it in HI and buy another when you get to your new duty station.

MTV

I PCS’d from Wyoming to California... so MUCH easier for me to fly the plane out, then return on an airliner and drive back the moving truck. I’d also suggest selling the 140 in Hawaii also then buying a new plane when you get to your new duty station. Disassembly, crating, shipping, and reassembly is going to be expensive. Good luck trying to get the military to pay for it.

Definitely appreciate all the input!

contactflying wrote:Will you inflate or deflate the value in the move?

In all honesty, it wont really inflate or deflate the value one way or the other, the supply is extremely low for aircraft in Hawaii, but to balance it, there is also slim to no demand either. I have a current offer for the 140 that is slightly higher than the 19K I paid for it.

Bagarre wrote:You'll need a crate large enough to encapsulate the whole thing or risk serious damage to the plane.Tail will probably need to come off too.Build supports in the crate to hold and protect the wings and tail.Then convince the military to properly ship it.

Having flown gliders for over 10 years now, I've become pretty well versed in securing aircraft pieces for transport, and I also have a few contacts on island who are very experienced in shipping aircraft to/from Hawaii (7 aircraft between the 3 of them) and are willing to help with the packing process That being said, I can see where the risk may not be worth the reward. My only reason for pursuing it was that it will need an annual done almost as soon as it arrives in Massachusetts anyways, and the possibility of the Navy allowing me to finagle it into household goods. If it can not be shipped at no cost to me, I will definitely sell it.

Bagarre wrote:Do you have some incredible sentimental attachment to this particular 140?

Not too much sentimental value, but I have grown to really enjoy the 140. During one of my underway periods on the ship, I had the opportunity to meet one of the former owners, an older gentleman, when I pulled into Homer AK. It was amazing getting to learn the history of the plane and hear stories of him flying it all over the southern part of the state. It breaks my heart to see it getting corroded away being surrounded by salt water.

Bigrenna wrote:MA eh??? Make sure you reach out. Im south of Boston.

Ill keep an eye out for you! Im born and raised just west of Worcester and primarily fly out of Tanner Hiller! Ill be permanently back in Mass next September. Feel free to drop in anytime to the airport, visitors always welcome! As for ferrying the 140, with extended fuel, it probably could make the journey to San Francisco from Hilo, HI, but I cant even begin to justify the risk.

Thanks for all the advise everyone! Going to keep toying with the idea for now and figure out details to make the decision.

If you can sell it for more than you paid for it than it’s a no brainer..... sell it and buy a new plane later and avoid the hassle of shipping it to MA.

hahahaha... for some reason I missed the HI part. I had CA in my mind. I have now changed my thought on ferrying it from Hawaii.

Bigrenna wrote:hahahaha... for some reason I missed the HI part. I had CA in my mind. I have now changed my thought on ferrying it from Hawaii.

Chicken.......

Gump

Having done a couple (lol) of military moves and tried to ship aircraft, I definitely want to hear your story if you can get the military to allow it in your shipment. Definitely not allowed in any of our moves, but we were lowly enlisted. Commosioned officers seemed to find 'ways' around the rules we had to follow.
I had to personally pay several thousand dollars to ship a wing back to the mainland from Hawaii.

HA! officer privilages... no luck there, im just a lowly little E-5... if I find a loophole AND if im crazy enough to try it, ill let you know how it goes!

Yes the military will not ship boats or planes, I tried. So unless they have suddenly become über generous, it is on your nickel. Not a big deal putting a plane back together, done a bunch (in fact doing it as I write). But consider this, Container: $3-4,000 to Long Beach. Trucking for a container to just Flagstaff, one state over $3,100, $350 Insurance, plus depot fees and a bunch of other things, like I just had, forklift, packaging costs.

Now Officers and Enlisted alike can do what we did, bribe the Boson Mates to load it on an amphib and take it along. They will allow this, but it is at the discretion of the Skipper. We did this with our Hobi Cat from Norfolk to Gitmo. Cost a couple bottles of Scotch. So, find out who is going back to CONUS and speak with the crew. You will need to supply the lifting ring. Hopefully your aircraft has the four rings to lift it by on top. If not investigate installing them. Our boat was literally being hoisted in the air as we where handing over the bottles to the CPO Boson. Heck, when I was on the "USS Blue Ridge" as a middie, the LPH (USS Okinawa) that was cruising over to Pearl with us had a Cherokee 140 in the hanger deck.

dogpilot, I just finished reading your thread about shipping the 206 from India, I do not envy you one bit. After doing some research on move.mil, it seems that they have actually become much more generous with their moves (boats, rv's, recreational vehicles, are all allowed now, just take the weight off of the total household goods weight). That being said, the only way I will be able to pull it off is if they move my stuff in a 40' container, or if I drop the motor and tail surfaces, I may be able to squeeze into a 20' container. Im going to sweet talk the nice folks at PSD and see what they have to say. Once delivered at my doorstep in MA, I have access to a trailer to easily get it to the airport and get it re-assembled. Odds are it will be sold, but I just wanted to test the waters and see if anyone else had ever tried it. I saw info about getting space-A on a ship out of Pearl to San Diego, but that is unreliable at best and a logistical nightmare to truck it off base to an airport and re-assembled with little to no warning. The thought crossed my mind, but I cant guarantee being able to meet it on the pier when it arrives in Cali.

Man...they ship boats now! I had to give up a Choy Lee Mariner 32 Ketch because of that. Breaking a 140 down to fit a 20' should not present much of a problem. Just think, you get to replace all that important hardware that has been in place for god knows how long. But then again selling it and moving the money into another plane is a lot less wear and tear. You can get as attached to an airplane just like a pet. I do not mind the breaking down and shipping part at all. I do mind when a bunch of ambiguous paperwork holds you up, along with a parade of holidays for various deities delaying any of this vitally important paper from having its effect on petty civil servants.

My most entertaining breakdown/loadup was in Somalia. One of my pilots, Tom Cruise, it really was his name, but he was actually from Spain (and not a weird acre). He did a porpoise landing in the Soloy converted 207 I had. Ended up coming to a abrupt stop when the nose wheel broke off. Well this was in southern Somalia at a remote dirt strip. Luckily Souther Air Transport was running their L100's (civil C130) to it that day. They owed me for bailing their crew out in Waw in Sudan after rolling over a land mine. So 8 of us hopped into the Caravan and flew up with some tools, including two of my more fearless female employees. One of whom came up with the brilliant idea of how to move the fuselage, missing a nose wheel: Use Cargo straps and strap a wheelbarrow to the nose! Well, with 15 Marines guarding us (I suspect it was due to having the females with us), we got the 207 apart in about 4 hours. We loaded the bits on the Herc each time it landed and finished its offload. Well we where down to the fuselage with its amusing Garden Plane configuration. Turns out the gear on the 207 is too wide to fit the Herc cargo floor. So off come the wheels, the axel stubs are still 1" too wide. So off come the axels. We put some 4x4's on the stubs and winched the puppy in and off it went.

If you want to keep it find a friend that will fly it while you are gone. All he would have to pay is insurance, annual, and hanger cost. Best thing he could do for the plane is fly it 50 hours a year. Are you going to a ship or shore duty? If I did move it I would take wings, tail, and prop off and build custom plywood boxes for each. Then build box for plane. Even with all of that chance of getting bent is high. You can call to the Bird farms or helo carriers and see if they would bring it over for you. Huge loads of rattan furniture used to come back from West pack. It was not a big deal to get a motorcycle moved back in the day. The hard part is getting it next to the ship to swing it on and off. Too much paperwork to fly on and off deck. You could pickle it and store in a hanger until you get back, but if you try to sell it like that expect a big hit in price. Hassle factor for all of the above is pretty high selling it is most likely the best move in the long run. You are a sailor, new port, new girlfriend!!!
DENNY

One of the "Grumman Gurus" who is very active on "another forum" told the story of going to Hawaii this year on vacation, but taking a day to conduct a maintenance seminar for the Grumman owners and mechanics while he was there... He was shocked at the amount of corrosion he found on every.single.airplane he examined. Even more so because corrosion is a fairly rare issue with the Grumman planes - other than those tied down outside along the Florida coast...

And given my personal experience PCSing in the military (even as an officer), if I had a decent offer on the plane there in Hawaii, I'd sell it in a heartbeat, and purchase another one when I got back to the CONUS. The cost of disassembling, crating, shipping, and reassembling would probably eat a LOT more of your money than the sale in Hawaii, and finding a replacement here on the mainland... Decent looking 120s and/or 140s seem to come up for sale reasonably often, or you might choose to purchase something else (150 taildragger, 170, or ??) instead.

Good luck, and thanks for your service to our country!

Bigrenna wrote:hahahaha... for some reason I missed the HI part. I had CA in my mind. I have now changed my thought on ferrying it from Hawaii.

Haha, I was wondering. Seemed pretty ambitious!

Don't mean to get too far off track here but reading this thread just reminded me of a movie about a couple of guys trying to ferry a pair of Cessna 188's between California and Hawaii. It's a true story called "Mercy Mission - The Rescue of Flight 771". I watched it on YouTube. If your bored one of these winter nights its worth viewing.

Ron

I moved back from Japan in 2010 and just PCS'd last summer to the Midwest. I took a Harley with me to Japan and bought a GSXR 750 while I was there. Weight was no issue for me either so, I sent the Harley back as a MC and the GSXR back as furniture. A lot of the guys were sending back Skyline motors furniture as well. My thoughts on the 140 would be to disassemble and have it crated by one of the aircraft guru's there. Then ship it as furniture. If you get hassled, do it as a partial DITY move and crate/ship it on your dime, then claim it at the end. Easy day.

Good luck! Meat