Butch and I did a Saturday seminar and had decent weather to fly with a number of northern Alberta pilots before and after. A1Skinner was able to make the seminar but late harvest prevented the Flying.

I taught as much centerline between legs and defaulting rudder only for longitudinal alignment as apparent brisk walk rate of closure approach, but most use Hotrod 180's, and Butch's steep and slow approach here anyway.

The energy management turn was the most popular technique with the several pilots I flew with.

My greatest take home from the entire week was Butch's slow flight technique to investigate the air in continuous deep glaciation flat floor canyons (actually just steep sided mountains) intersected with joining canyons. Air, like water finds the least resistant path and doesn't necessarily all continue over the downwind ridge. Compared with these mountains, ours are a step, gradual incline, alluvial piece of cake.

The scariest thing for ol contact was that he almost never knew which way was down hill. The glaciated bottom of these mountains is either lake or S turns on a pool table. You can really get sucked in by continuous lower than our altitude requirement and a maze of cross canyons with everything running every direction.

I strongly recommend Butch's several day mountain flying clinic in Vancouver for flight in the BC mountains.

My method, so far in the maze of BC mountains, is to first do an intensive map recon. I will go at Butch's slow speed to the first cross canyon decision, circle, and go back. Retrace and on to the second decision, return. Retrace and on to the third, etc, etc. Next year I will get better. No change for our American Rockies easy ridge lift up the ridge downwind of the valley.

Just look at the BC Rockies on a sectional or topo to see why these pilots liked the energy management canyon turn. It is really tight in the smaller canyons up there. With Butch's slow flight method, it is just turn to the center and let the nose go down naturally. He circled over thirty minutes one time, however, waiting on better visibility when cut off from going on or back. He is the man. If you're going to fly there, fly with him first. My stuff can come later or not at all.

Contact,

Please tell us more about "Hotrod 180's, and Butch's steep and slow approach". Anything special?

Blue skies,

Tom

Butch teaches slow flight extensively, both high and low. It is really tight and almost continuously tight in the maze of channels and cross channels. Air currents at confluence can be hard to read and dangerous. His program is much more extensive than "Safe Maneuvering Flight Techniques," which I can cover completely in a couple of days.

Hotrod 180 could go over his technique again, but Butch, having taught an extensive slow and careful approach, continues with a very slow and steep stabilized approach to touchdown without round out and hold off.

His program is 20 to 30 hours with just stick and rudder before STOL and finally mountain work. Enough time to developed muscle memory. I only introduce in a flight review or a couple days tops. For muscle memory, I used to take students on a 3500 mile pipeline loop using only energy management turns.

Butch Washtock [email protected].

Like me, with Butch the airplane doesn't matter. We teach pilots to fly what they have.

You did great Jim. It was great to meet you. Sorry I wasn't able to fly with you, but with harvest and my injured arm I just wasn't comfortable flying.
It was fun to see guys questioning how rudder was a primary control and claiming that a plane wont qeathercock into the wind though...
You and Butch did a great job and it was very informative. Now you see why some of us questioned some of your ideas now that you've seen our mountains. But overall a lot of your methods are very similar to Butchs. And very similar to how I fly. The one thing with Butchs that I wasn't sure about was the V speeds. I'm not much for looking at my airspeed and do what the plane is telling me. But that's probably the wrong way to fly.
All in all it was very informative and a great course.
David

A1Skinner,

Don't give up on us David. We can have it both ways. We can learn to fly slow and control necessary maneuvering using contact flying information and skills without instruments. MTV and Butch want you to know your airplane completely, however you do that. I want you to know yourself completely, however you do that. In the end we want the same thing. We want you to be able to maneuver your airplane safely and effectively in your mountains.

Mike indicated a desire to have us back next year. I will fly with Butch and learn more about your mountains in the interim. Get down to Vancouver and fly with him yourself if possible. Butch is fair. He will accept accurate feel as well as airspeed indication. Next year I will have a better feel for your mountains and be able to help more.

Use the force young Skywalker. You will work it out.

Contact

Yes I plan to go fly with him once my 206 is up and running. It would be great to have you guys back again. Hopefully I can spend a bit more time with you guys next year.
I wont give up, dont worry!

So bummed I missed that.

I've been planning to do Butch's mountain flying course for about 6 months now, really happy to hear Contact's recommendation.

I was signed off on floats and wheels today (finally) and can now fly my own plane to meet Butch in Chilliwack. Should be fun. He has agreed to do the instruction on amphibs (fly what you have) which will be extra interesting.

David, I'm sure I have room for you here if you don't mind a 30+ minute commute to Butch's class. PM me when you are coming this way.

I am too old to remember that phones are cameras and don't know how to post pictures anyway. A1Skinner or Albravo, do either of you have pictures of the canyons between Tumbler Ridge and Prince George that you could post?

Thanks,

Contact

We use a little different terms, but Butch and I are in total agreement on rudder usage. He calls rudder and elevator primary controls while calling my least favorite control, aileron, secondary. He said numerous times that rudder pulls aileron. I like that concept. I have talked lead rudder and rudder only, but we just want the rudder to push the nose around before hitting the vertical wall. Aileron is slow, ineffective, and can get you killed.

I was a good boy up there and tried to seem as calm and staid as Butch, but one ex Canadian Air Force guy who had to have coordinated controls always asked Butch why rudder was more primary than aileron. I couldn't help myself; I yelled, "because it is in a better place on the airplane." I hate adverse yaw. When aileron is not needed for balance, it can really mess with pilots.

Haha. Ya that was special. He claimed hid plane wont westhercock into the wind if you release rudder... every plane I've flown does.
I'll get out and get some pictures once harvest is done Jim.

David

Yes, and if we use rudder only to bracket the centerline between our legs, we will find any crosswind. We will drift downwind. Those who wish to side slip lower a wing into wind. Those who wish to crab release rudder and weathervane. Pretty simple stuff.

Because Butch teaches slow maneuvering in the narrow canyons, he has to insist on muscle memory gross rudder movement at that slow airspeed. Waiting on aileron to do the job would be dangerous. We think we are coordinated using the same fine aileron and rudder pressure as in cruise. When slow, it takes a lot of rudder movement to push the nose around or to get the down wing up smartly. Same with 45 degree bank Dutch Rolls. After pitching up to lose airspeed to begin the energy management turn, it takes a lot of rudder movement to get the nose down quickly and to push the nose around.

In your mountains David, every minute is maneuvering flight. Your main concern, every minute, is not hitting the mountain on your side and having room to turn before hitting the mountain on the other side.

Jim,

I grew up in Prince George and worked for a year up in Tumbler Ridge. To be honest, I don't recall anything about the terrain that is nearly as tight as the stuff I fly in now just going here or there. I wasn't a pilot back then, so I might have a different perspective, but down in southwestern BC where Butch teaches I think narrow canyons are pretty typical.

With respect to the rudder as a primary flight control, I'm really wrestling with my plane since it went on amphibs. I'm not sure if the rudder has gotten difficult because it is now linked to the water rudders but MAN, it takes a very significant input to get any rudder deflection. My legs are working hard when I fly. A friend has suggested that I change out some springs now that I don't have to control the nosewheel with my rudder inputs and I know I have to change one water rudder because it is a bit bent, but rudder is hard to come by these days in my plane.

Allan

Allen,

I'm not a float pilot. Hopefully, MTV can help you there. I have pulled a lot of air around with a spreader on a Pawnee, however. With stuff hanging out that is not the most aerodynamic, a lot of both rudder movement and rudder pressure is required. I expect the floats are trying to weathervane as much as the fuselage. Without crosswind, use rudder only to walk the nose (between your legs) to the target. With crosswind, use rudder only to walk your butt to the target. Coordinated turns are fine, but don't have differential stuff (ailerons) hanging out more than necessary. Turns are necessary to acquire a target. Turns defeat our effort to maintain/bracket a target using rudder only. Rudder, so well placed and efficient, is your best and finest tuned trim device for a directed course to the target.

When we turn to regain a lost target, we have given up on a rudder only directed course to the target. Now rudder is pulling the wing, with down aileron, around as well as trying to direct the nose back to the target. This double effort takes more rudder movement and rudder pressure than just putting it back continuously (dynamic proactive rudder bracketing). A lot of turning is required to spray crops, especially back and forth. I have finished a day with both knees knocking uncontrollably. It is the same as a weight lifter losing muscle control from too many repetitions.

I flew with Seth, the new 2H2 instructor, again Monday. We did a stall and some slow flight. Since slow flight is central to Butch Washtock's in the BC mountains work and I hadn't taught slow flight for years, I wanted to refresh and test some of his teaching.

There are very apparent reasons we both emphasize rudder as a primary control and aileron as a secondary control. We both have operated in terrain where nose movement, both positive and rapid, is much more critical than instrument or instrument dominated nose movement. In confined terrain, turn to target or turn to miss terrain and obstructions is the issue. Turn to heading, based on instrument indications, is never the issue.

In teaching the energy management turn, push the nose down with rudder and push the nose around with rudder are the most common instructor input. In teaching slow flight maneuvering, rudder leads aileron in getting a down wing up. In teaching slow flight maneuvering, rudder gets positive and rapid nose movement. In teaching slow flight maneuvering, aileron is always slow and sluggish even with wing washing and frieze ailerons.

Instruction in instrument orientation (slow and small pitch and bank change) type contact flying is in no way actual contact flying and is in no way sufficient to the maneuvering needs of flight in the mountains.

I have to apologize to MTV, Gump, and all my Canadian friends. I really didn't see the need for slowing down and making level turns in the mountains. As my experience was US Rockies and Sierra Nevada mountains, I had never needed to just hang around in a canyon between close and nearly vertical mountain walls with various cross canyons. I still firmly believe in using vertical space available (we can allow the nose to go down in slow shallow turns and even put a wing well down and release all back pressure as needed), but I now see the utility in hanging out with slow and slightly nose down shallow turns.

Butch used the FAA load factor chart that I hate being used only to promote shallow turns. Butch used the chart to point out the utility and safety of making slower level, slightly nose down, and even steep and well nose down turns. The only part of the energy management turn (the one I teach) that can become dangerous in tight, steep sided mountains is the return to cruise or faster airspeed in the nose down portion beyond halfway around the 180 degree canyon turn. Too much speed comes from having the nose down too long and having the nose down too long comes from not banking steep enough or from not pushing the nose around fast enough with lots of rudder. Think about the rapid nose movement in the spin. We don't want to spin (not a problem if we let the nose go down naturally rather than stall) but we want rapid nose movement. Get the nose down with steep bank and rudder and no back pressure. Now, with the nose well down, we can safely remove some of that excess tuck. We are not in as much hurry to get back to trimmed cruise as is the airplane.

Butch and I both want the slower airspeed in the turn. He cruises at slower airspeed in BC mountains and I pitch up wings level first here. When I am near ceiling, I am also cruising slowly. With the extra load (centrifugal force) of extra airspeed eliminated, we both turn faster with less radius. And we both emphasize rudder. Rudder moves the nose around quickly. Aileron moves the nose the wrong way first and the right way inefficiently. Rudder is primary. Rudder pulls aileron or we have dangerous problems in slow flight and energy management turns. Aileron seems primary at high airspeed but this false perception leads to flawed orientation and poor, slow muscle memory.

For me somewhere between Va maneuvering speed at actual weight and 1.3 Vso slow lies a range of responsible control in terrain. When I've been most challenged has been when the turbulence had me questioning Va vs my airframe's integrity and my ability, and 1.3 Vso slow vs what effects quick shifts in relative wind might have on minimum controllable airspeed in my configuration.

Any large bank angle or aileron deflection and the forces that affect stall prevail. When conditions that normally require the ailerons be well used are encountered it's been time for me to rely on the rudder and find another place to fly that day.

Edit: I might add keeping bank angle less than 30* reduces the chance for additional load in turns. No mystery just something to be aware of especially in a 77 year old Taylorcraft like mine.

Gary

Gary,

Yes, the shock of severe turbulence will slow us up. We then have to live with less engine power and zoom reserve in the form of airspeed. The upsets are not coordinated and adverse yaw complicates when we get scared enough to use aileron with rudder to bring a well down wing back up. Both slow speed and level wings become desirable. We have to be ready to go to full throttle and/or pitch down when the wind shear tries to stall us.

Both bank angle with back pressure on the stick and loss of airspeed contribute to stall. When neither turbulence nor lack of vertical space available are serious limitations, 1g can be maintained at any bank angle so long as the pilot does not introduce too much load factor by pulling back on the stick too much.

Orientation and muscle memory create default control movement. Some are more helpful than others. Pulling back on the stick in turns is a logical default that can lead to stall. Avoiding bank angle often contributes to dangerously slow rate of turn in tight terrain.

I see the point of slower airspeed to give the pilot more time in marginal weather and tight terrain and to mitigate turbulence shock. I also value zoom reserve and use of vertical space available in energy management. I have lost the pull to tighten turn without increasing bank default. That has given me the freedom to maintain zoom reserve in the form of airspeed in most situations. In the tight and vertical walled mountains, I need to slow down and take a longer look. The energy management turn will get me going back the way I came. It will not necessarily get me out (which way is down hill?) and it will not make loitering possible.

Thanks for the good comments.

Jim

We lost two local sheep hunters this fall in the Alaska Range. Haven't seen the preliminary assessment but words like "box canyon" went "straight down" "burned" and more. Reportedly a driven to learn enthusiastic relatively new pilot in a PA-12 with a partner along. Enough said.

Jim what you and others discuss here has real value for training situational awareness in terrain. Some maneuvers can be taught and muscle memory learned in clear airspace away from the mountains. But adding the visual and orographic effects while mountain flying adds another layer of challenges.

Like instrument and aerobatic courses this subject should be learned by pilots that fly that zone. Thankfully there's instructors willing to share and teach.

I might have missed the earlier posts but are there videos available from the clinic? I'm rereading your e-Book.

Gary