http://www.mt-propeller.com/en/entw/pro_elec.htm
I can see the applicability of these for smaller engines that maybe don't come with hollow cranks and hydraulic governors, but can anyone see a good reason to run these on a larger HP engine? Like 200hp+?
Is it just an option for a guy who has an engine with the solid crank? It doesn't look like there's any weight advantage.
MT electric adjustable prop
Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:06 pm
- Old Yeller offline
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Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:59 am
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
I agree that it's mainly good as an option for those of us with solid cranks and no c/s options. I don't have any experience with a cntrollable prop, and notmmuch with a constant speed, but I think a controllable would be good. Take off in flat pitch, ease her into coarse pitch for cruise, or in between for cruise climb. I didn't do any poking around on the MT site looking for prices but I'm betting they ain't cheap.
Cessna Skywagon -- accept no substitute!
Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:08 am
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
I am very happy with my electric, inflight adjustable prop.... Unfortunately I use the Ivo and it is not legal on certified planes, IIRC.... I did price a MT back in 2002 and it was over 13,000 bucks... But that was for a 300+HP set up.
Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com
www.haaspowerair.com
Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:28 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
Stol wrote:I am very happy with my electric, inflight adjustable prop.... Unfortunately I use the Ivo and it is not legal on certified planes, IIRC.... I did price a MT back in 2002 and it was over 13,000 bucks... But that was for a 300+HP set up.
Yeah it's nuts eh.... Everyone says they love their MT, but at that price you'd better!!!
At this stage, I'd rather use the price difference to fly a couple of hundred hours instead. But if you've got the cash...
Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:33 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
The great advantage of the cockpit adjustable prop is you can set it to fine pitch for take off and gain good short field performance... A regular, hydraulic prop does the same, it weights twice as much, or more. but it operates faster . Fine pitch to course pitch might take 2 seconds... On my Ivo, the time to go from fine pitch to course pitch is 5-6 seconds..
Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com
www.haaspowerair.com
Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:41 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
I could deal with 5-6 seconds. He'll I'll take 10 seconds if I could get off the ground, climb like a Rocket then repitch & cruise to the best of my birds' ability.
What is the rough price range for the Ivo props-
150 horse?
200 horse?
Thanks
byeBill
What is the rough price range for the Ivo props-
150 horse?
200 horse?
Thanks
byeBill
- cessnaford offline
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FMCDH!
Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:47 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
I have a hydraulic governor, and can say I save 15 lbs in the nose with MT constant speed verses the aluminum props on the TCDS! No corrosion too
CFII, MEI, CFISES, ATPME, IA/AP, RPPL, Ski&Amphib ops, RHC mechanic cert, RHC SC— 3000TT
Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:40 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
cessnaford wrote:I could deal with 5-6 seconds. He'll I'll take 10 seconds if I could get off the ground, climb like a Rocket then repitch & cruise to the best of my birds' ability.
What is the rough price range for the Ivo props-
150 horse?
200 horse?
Thanks
byeBill
I run the Magnum set up and have two separate sets of blades.. I use the regular Magnum tapered ones for long distance and winter flying. They are slightly faster but are fragile as the leading edge protection is just a thin steel foil tape.. Even just flying through rain, dents the tape... The Paddle blades made for airboats are more durable and have REAL Stainless Steel wrapped around the leading edge.. They are about 4 mph slower and are great for off airport /rough field flying...
http://www.ivoprop.com/inflightmagnumodel.htm
http://www.ivoprop.com/paddlemodel.htm
http://www.ivoprop.com/magnumodel.htm
They were a bit less expensive back in 2002... Still a bargain though..
Last edited by Stol on Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ben Haas
www.haaspowerair.com
www.haaspowerair.com
Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:45 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
8GCBC wrote:I have a hydraulic governor, and can say I save 15 lbs in the nose with MT constant speed verses the aluminum props on the TCDS! No corrosion too
I think the composite vs aluminum blade weight advantage is a given.
What are the advantages of a hydraulic governor for constant speed though, other than the ability to adjust pitch as a function of rpm?
- Zzz offline
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Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:53 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
It reduces work load significantly, especially in a descent--just point down and go, without worrying about overspeeding the rpm. RPM remains constant (hence the name, "constant speed"), regardless of whether you're going up or down, as long as you don't change it yourself, until you've pulled the power enough that the prop is at its stop. The prop changes pitch, but you don't have to do a thing to make it do so.What are the advantages of a hydraulic governor for constant speed though, other than the ability to adjust pitch as a function of rpm?
Cary
"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth..., put out my hand and touched the face of God." J.G. Magee
Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:11 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
Cary wrote:It reduces work load significantly, especially in a descent--just point down and go, without worrying about overspeeding the rpm. RPM remains constant (hence the name, "constant speed"), regardless of whether you're going up or down, as long as you don't change it yourself, until you've pulled the power enough that the prop is at its stop. The prop changes pitch, but you don't have to do a thing to make it do so.What are the advantages of a hydraulic governor for constant speed though, other than the ability to adjust pitch as a function of rpm?
Cary
Thread from the dead, but I was doing some research and this thread came up.
constant speed is constant speed, whether hydraulic or electrically driven. Hydraulic is faster, though both do the same thing. There is such thing as an electric constant speed governor, and IVO even makes one to add to their electric in-flight adjustable props.
Adjustable pitch is just a fixed pitch propeller with provisions to adjust the pitch in flight, and so would follow Cary's warning above.
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Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:11 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
As per your original question "is there any real reason to run an electric prop" I believe there are two main reasons.
1- is your motor package is not set up for a standard prop and governor. That could be because of a solid crank or a redrive system that does not have the capability of using the standard system.
2- You want to save weight over the standard system with the aluminum prop and governor. I think in the MT prop there is little difference in weight savings.
Both MT and IVO have electric props and both have a switch that allows you to use them as Constant Speed or Inflight Adjustable. When in constant speed mode you use a small dial to select prop speed and the prop uses and electronic feed back to control prop at the set speed instead of hydraulics. When using the inflight adjustable you set the pitch to a predetermined location for take off the toggle the pitch to the desired position for cruise.
When building our Bearhawk (357) we went with the IVO Prop 3 Blade paddle prop. They had made this prop in a pusher for the air boats for some time but we received the first tractor version out of the molds.
We found the rate of change was too slow in the constant speed mode but the prop worked just excellent in the inflight adjustable mode as we would preselect for take off and just bump it up a little in cruise.
The folks at Flight Resources have selected an 83" 3 blade for my 400hp package and because of my belt drive it would be electric. They also brought to my attention that the electric prop moves at 1* per second where the hydraulic moves at 5* / sec. The electric prop will not control RPM as well as the hydraulic unit. The IVO prop is about $3500 and I was quoted about $16000 for a complete MT electric system. The IVO is for non-certified only and MT is for certified aircraft.
There is a third option just available and that is VARI PROP. They have an electric over hydraulic system and the use WHIRLWIND blades and it is designed for solid crank and redrive systems. They seem to have a good hold on the Wardbird replica market an are used to dealing with the 400 to 600 hp range and the hydraulic pump and control unit can be mounted anywhere in the aircraft for weight and balance purposes. I will be looking seriously at this option as well for my project.
1- is your motor package is not set up for a standard prop and governor. That could be because of a solid crank or a redrive system that does not have the capability of using the standard system.
2- You want to save weight over the standard system with the aluminum prop and governor. I think in the MT prop there is little difference in weight savings.
Both MT and IVO have electric props and both have a switch that allows you to use them as Constant Speed or Inflight Adjustable. When in constant speed mode you use a small dial to select prop speed and the prop uses and electronic feed back to control prop at the set speed instead of hydraulics. When using the inflight adjustable you set the pitch to a predetermined location for take off the toggle the pitch to the desired position for cruise.
When building our Bearhawk (357) we went with the IVO Prop 3 Blade paddle prop. They had made this prop in a pusher for the air boats for some time but we received the first tractor version out of the molds.
We found the rate of change was too slow in the constant speed mode but the prop worked just excellent in the inflight adjustable mode as we would preselect for take off and just bump it up a little in cruise.
The folks at Flight Resources have selected an 83" 3 blade for my 400hp package and because of my belt drive it would be electric. They also brought to my attention that the electric prop moves at 1* per second where the hydraulic moves at 5* / sec. The electric prop will not control RPM as well as the hydraulic unit. The IVO prop is about $3500 and I was quoted about $16000 for a complete MT electric system. The IVO is for non-certified only and MT is for certified aircraft.
There is a third option just available and that is VARI PROP. They have an electric over hydraulic system and the use WHIRLWIND blades and it is designed for solid crank and redrive systems. They seem to have a good hold on the Wardbird replica market an are used to dealing with the 400 to 600 hp range and the hydraulic pump and control unit can be mounted anywhere in the aircraft for weight and balance purposes. I will be looking seriously at this option as well for my project.
- 175 magnum offline
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Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:18 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
175 magnum wrote:As per your original question "is there any real reason to run an electric prop" I believe there are two main reasons.
1- is your motor package is not set up for a standard prop and governor. That could be because of a solid crank or a redrive system that does not have the capability of using the standard system.
2- You want to save weight over the standard system with the aluminum prop and governor. I think in the MT prop there is little difference in weight savings.
A few years ago I got to ride in a Super Dimona motor glider with an electrically-controlled MT prop. Those engines get shut down in flight as standard operating procedure. IIRC the pilot always adjusted to full-coarse before shutting the engine off, so just in case it didn't restart, or the electric governor failed, he'd be set up for best glide. Very cool flight, BTW.
-DP
Last edited by denalipilot on Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:50 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
All the replies so far are accurate, so no need for me to add anything. The price of the fully certified MT composite propeller systems are competitive with other manufacturers composite propellers. In the case of the 4-blade version used on the Cirrus SR22, the MT 4-blade is about $ 15K less than the 3-blade Hartzell composite prop.
John.
John.
Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:48 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
Well I just got a 3 bladed electric MT prop that has run 600 hrs on a Subaru and will also fit a Lyc. As I understand it is good to 200 hp.
The prop contoller as the fellow I got it from is Magic!! Of course he kept it as he upgraded to 230 HP Lyc on the front of his Glastar on amphibs and went with the same thing but a longer 2 blade.
I do not know what I'm talking about as it is second hand from him and I have not seen it as I'm in AK and it got to my place after I left.
The contoller is a little box that is behind the panel with a little knob on it! there is a wire that runs to the ignition(not sure how many in the bundle) and another wire with I beleive 3 wires bundled that run to the front of the engine and then there are brushed on the back of the spinner plate that runs the prop motor. I asked about wieght he said the little box must weigh 3-4 OZ. Said you can use it as a adjustable or as a CS depending on where you turn the knob?
Ancitious to see it work, will be finding out how much the brushes and contoller cost in the next couple of days.
So if you delete the Hyd Gove that should be a great savings on weight right there!
And thats all I don't know about that!!
The prop contoller as the fellow I got it from is Magic!! Of course he kept it as he upgraded to 230 HP Lyc on the front of his Glastar on amphibs and went with the same thing but a longer 2 blade.
I do not know what I'm talking about as it is second hand from him and I have not seen it as I'm in AK and it got to my place after I left.
The contoller is a little box that is behind the panel with a little knob on it! there is a wire that runs to the ignition(not sure how many in the bundle) and another wire with I beleive 3 wires bundled that run to the front of the engine and then there are brushed on the back of the spinner plate that runs the prop motor. I asked about wieght he said the little box must weigh 3-4 OZ. Said you can use it as a adjustable or as a CS depending on where you turn the knob?
Ancitious to see it work, will be finding out how much the brushes and contoller cost in the next couple of days.
So if you delete the Hyd Gove that should be a great savings on weight right there!
And thats all I don't know about that!!
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Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:56 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
I've got one on an RV8. I don't have a lot of experience with it yet, but it looks pretty straight forward. Mine is hooked up to a Mazda rotary via a reduction gear box. Still trouble shooting the whole system before I start flying it, but it feels like a ripper during taxi tests!
Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:15 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
Hendo wrote:
I've got one on an RV8. I don't have a lot of experience with it yet, but it looks pretty straight forward. Mine is hooked up to a Mazda rotary via a reduction gear box. Still trouble shooting the whole system before I start flying it, but it feels like a ripper during taxi tests!
- M6RV6 offline
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Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:11 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
M6RV6 wrote:Hendo wrote:
I've got one on an RV8. I don't have a lot of experience with it yet, but it looks pretty straight forward. Mine is hooked up to a Mazda rotary via a reduction gear box. Still trouble shooting the whole system before I start flying it, but it feels like a ripper during taxi tests!
Finding out that little box is as much as a Governor!! 1800 bucks?
Sure wish there was a better mousetrap?
Any idea where I can find out whats in the box?
Looks like a sitch to go flat or full pitch and another to direct the CS part?
Wonder if it can be run as a adjustable and not a CS
Thanks
- M6RV6 offline
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Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:43 am
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
M6RV6,
I wasn't the builder and just recently purchased the plane so I'm still in discovery mode myself. Unfortunately, I'm in Arkansas and the plane is in Utah. I don't know how big of a rush you're in, but I'd be happy open it up and take a few pics for you the next time I'm home. (few months)
As far as the C/S and adjustable prop question goes I believe it does both. It has an auto mode that you select and then select the desired RPM on the dial. It also has manual mode and then you can use the toggle to manually increase or decrease pitch. Incidentally, I can't get my prop to change pitch at all. I think I have a wiring or a electric pitch motor issue to work through.
I wasn't the builder and just recently purchased the plane so I'm still in discovery mode myself. Unfortunately, I'm in Arkansas and the plane is in Utah. I don't know how big of a rush you're in, but I'd be happy open it up and take a few pics for you the next time I'm home. (few months)
As far as the C/S and adjustable prop question goes I believe it does both. It has an auto mode that you select and then select the desired RPM on the dial. It also has manual mode and then you can use the toggle to manually increase or decrease pitch. Incidentally, I can't get my prop to change pitch at all. I think I have a wiring or a electric pitch motor issue to work through.
Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:42 pm
Re: MT electric adjustable prop
Hendo wrote:M6RV6,
I wasn't the builder and just recently purchased the plane so I'm still in discovery mode myself. Unfortunately, I'm in Arkansas and the plane is in Utah. I don't know how big of a rush you're in, but I'd be happy open it up and take a few pics for you the next time I'm home. (few months)
As far as the C/S and adjustable prop question goes I believe it does both. It has an auto mode that you select and then select the desired RPM on the dial. It also has manual mode and then you can use the toggle to manually increase or decrease pitch. Incidentally, I can't get my prop to change pitch at all. I think I have a wiring or a electric pitch motor issue to work through.
I'll pm you my info!!
Thanks
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