Hi all. I posted a thread last year introducing myself but somehow when I click on the thread in my profile it goes nowhere. Do the threads get deleted after a certain period of no new replies?

Regardless, I just wanted to post an update and ask for some advice. Last year I began my ppl training with the goal of becoming a backcountry aviator. This has been a lifelong dream as I look forward to one day joining some friends in remote areas for some fly-in camping/hiking/exploring...etc

My plan when I started my training was to purchase an aircraft so that I had something ready to immediately fly once I received my ppl. I ended up purchasing a PA18-150 through a reputable broker that was located out east. Eventually the winter set in there and the plane had to stay put for a while. Further to that, my training stalled out for a bit, so I eventually decided to sell it before I had ever even had it out here in BC. Never flew it. In the end I think it came down to not being entirely convinced that it was the right choice for a first plane and I was able to unload it with no problems. This brings me to this new thread - I still need some help.

I'm now progressing along in my training and should wrap things up pretty soon in the early spring. The training has been going great and I'm just loving the flying. I love it so much that I would fly every day if our BC weather would cooperate. I still would like to buy another plane to fly when I'm done with my training as I don't think it makes sense to rent the local flying club's 172. If there were different choices in what I could rent then that would make some sense as it would allow me to try different aircraft out.

I would love some feedback on what the best choice of aircraft would be for me. The mission is mainly just me flying with an occasional passenger. I don't have any desire to do any lengthy travel as we have a pretty nice background to explore here in BC. There will be the odd camp-outs and day trips eventually, but for now a lot of 1 or 2 hour flights near my home circuit. I realize that this may evolve over time, but it's the plan for now.

I've done a ton of google research over the past year or two. I believe I've read nearly every thread on the subject matter, here on this site as well as other sites. I try to find opinions from experienced pilots but I see varying responses and reasoning. I love the thought of owning a Carbon Cub as it appears to be an ideal aircraft for what I'm doing. I don't plan on a big payload and it surely is capable of getting into some remote areas. I'm not very mechanically inclined and therefore it makes me wonder if I should be flying a 60 or 70 year old aircraft in the backcountry. A 10 year old or newer Cub sounds more appealing to me. I'm fortunate that I don't really have a budget limit. It's awkward saying that but I felt it important to disclose so that it maybe helps point me in the right direction.

I'm training in a C172 so I have no experience with a TW. I have many questions on which direction I should go for a first plane. Is a 160 or 180 hp Carbon Cub doable for a first plane? Am I better buying a 172 and flying that for a couple hundred hours before getting a TW endorsement? Or do I get the TW endorsement right after completing my ppl and try and find a J3 or PA11 to purchase and learn in that? Or a C170? A PA18, CarbonCub, or C180/185 are all at the top of my list for desirable planes but are they all too much aircraft for a new pilot to learn to fly? I really don't have any desire to own a 172 or 182, but maybe I'm wrong in that thinking.

Any thoughts would be great. I realize there are discussions to be found around the internet on the matter but believe me, there aren't as many as you might think. I have read every one that my googling capabilities have allowed. I want to get it right this time since I didn't get off to a great start. I'm aware that not too many in the history of the human race were flaky enough to buy their first plane and sell it before ever flying it. I'm also not so sure that the PA18 wasn't the right choice for me? Maybe I wind up getting another one as bizarre as that is. I realize some of you may be cringing while reading this..

I'll now sit back and see what encouraging words or harsh replies come my way. I can handle both
Thanks for your help.

Another Cub or at a somewhat lower price point but no less an airplane either a Citabria or Scout.

You can afford the insurance so get what you want. Start with something older and not so pretty and you will be more comfortable with learning by experience. My experience as an instructor is that pilots sometimes have confidence problems not because of ability but because they fear ground looping a pretty tailwheel airplane.

If you are comfortable on a petal bike or better unicycle, you will have little trouble with tw. Get and experienced instructor in tw. Learning to land the 172 slowly on the numbers every time will make your first ground loop less damaging. If you have an instructor who is absolutely not going to let that happen, you will learn to land tw on your own. Perhaps you will never have a ground loop, but if you have one going fast it will damage the airplane.

If you have an instructor willing to make you use the rudder properly, you can learn as much in a nosewheel airplane. It will go most anywhere a tw airplane will go if ground effect is used on takeoff and power pitch deceleration on short final to touchdown slowly and softly on the numbers every time. In the air they fly exactly the same. The nosewheel requires much less attention to longitudinal alignment on the ground. The prop is closer to the ground during taxi only. Going over on the nose will put either prop into the ground.

I got my license last year, and did all of the training and check ride in a TW plane, get what you I want, no need to get 1-200 hours in a non-conventional plane! Go get what you want. The PA-18 was likely a great choice, if you can swing a CC then get it. Lots of CC choices, there is the SS (aka Light Sport) the EX, the FX and of course the XCub. If you can afford it, get the best. As long as you are good with your feet, TW is the way to go, just don’t get distracted on the ground

1_Robert wrote:Hi all. I posted a thread last year introducing myself but somehow when I click on the thread in my profile it goes nowhere. Do the threads get deleted after a certain period of no new replies?

Welcome back, Robert. No, threads do not get deleted; in fact the opposite. We archived everything here.

The link in your feed/profile for forum topics is broken code...apologies. The way to see someone's posts is the click the post count number in their user information block. It works for yourself too. That's how I found this thread:

https://backcountrypilot.org/forum/new-pilot-new-plane-new-to-site-23900



Also, thank you for the support donation today.

Some kind of Cub for sure.

What ever you get make sure you get good training not just a TW endorsement. Dont try to do it in minimum hours. Find the best instructor you can find preferably in the type of airplane you buy. Travel if you have to, have the instructor travel to you if necessary and pay the rate, don't go cheapskate on the training like so many do.

Citabria’s with flaps and Scouts should not be overlooked, they are good airplanes too.

Where in BC are you located?

How big or small are you? Comfort in the seat may dictate which airplane may or may not be for you.

Having owned 180 and 185’s as well as others I will say they are great utility airplanes but for out flying around for fun it sure is hard to beat a Super Cub, Husky, Scout type of airplane.


Kurt

You don't say how big or old you are. If you arent very flexible a Scout or Citabria is nicer. Easier to get in and out of then a cub. I am a big fan of the Champion products, great heaters, comfortable, easy to fly, good performers.
I would also recommend flying with Butch Washtock to get a good mountain checkout. He is not an instructor, but he puts on an excellent mountain course that I highly recommend.
Hello and welcome from Alberta.

My brother-in-law recently picked up a C180 with zero hours in his log book, just soloed.
We cleared customs in Nanaimo a few years ago on our way to Port Alberni, beautiful country!

I also know of a nice 180 that just popped up for sale here in Ab.

A1Skinner wrote:I also know of a nice 180 that just popped up for sale here in Ab.

Does it have a float kit and if so could you PM at point of contact please & thank you.

Mapleflt wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:I also know of a nice 180 that just popped up for sale here in Ab.

Does it have a float kit and if so could you PM at point of contact please & thank you.

No float kit on it unfortunately.

Get rides in several different planes and make your choice from experience. If money is no object, spend it on instruction and fuel. There is no substitute for practice, and remember that your education is your responsibility and that the instructors are just tools (no offense to the instructors on here) which help you to learn what you want to know, but the ultimate responsibility is yours. Also, hang out with other pilots. Hanging out with the right crowd (in person as well as online) is another huge tool in the improvement box.

If budget is not a concern and you like the confidence of a newer airplane, for your mission and budget I think the nose wheel carbon cub makes a lot of sense. Extremely capable, they say more capable that the tail wheel version. You can spend more time leading to fly in your backcountry without first perfecting the tail wheel. Second positive is that after a time you can convert the airplane to tail wheel down the road.

I've been thinking about this and wondering what I would do if budget was truly not a factor. You say you aren't mechanically inclined so I assume when the plane needs work you'll be dropping it off at the shop and simply writing a check. I also assume downtime for repairs would like to be kept to a minimum. With that in mind I'd rule out older airplanes...so no original cub, no TW Cessna, etc. I would arrange factory demo flights in a Maule, Husky, Scout, and Carbon Cub. After flying them and looking at new and used pricing I would choose an airplane. I already know I would order a new Maule M7-235B but that's just me. Pricing on used TW airplanes is so bloated it's ridiculous.

There is no reason to wait any amount of time to get your TW endorsement and fly whichever plane you want. You have the budget and seem to have the mindset to get whatever training necessary in the airplane you want.

What whee said. All the planes he listed other than the Maule would be totally great to learn to fly tailwheel in. They are very docile, simple airplanes that are extremely capable. The Maule is docile as well, it's simply a lot harder to learn to fly tailwheel in a high performance airplane with a big engine that's nose heavy - just more to manage.

All of those (Carbon Cub, Scout, Husky) also have reputable dealers that while I would never buy an airplane from them, provide the level of airplane and level of service that might suit you very well if rather than new you wanted something like a 2015 model.


As you can see, we are living vicariously through your budget-less adventure. Have fun!

You sound a lot like me a couple years go.. I was new to aviation, backcountry interest, just me, not an aspiring mechanic, good budget (not turbine good but still more money than time/sense). My other constraint was I’m 6’5” which rules out some older airframes. Looked at C180 (too big), Supercub (don’t fit), Carbon cub (too specialized), settled an XCub (Sort of a mini 180 in my mind), now about 500 hrs total, 200 hrs in the xCub. Some lessons learned:

-Starting out it’s really hard to distinguish between the romantic vision of your mission and your actual mission. My romantic vision was immediately landing on every 200’ gravel bar and hilltop in sight. But I’m also super risk averse, so my actual mission turns out to have been a lot of pavement practice (no nearby grass sadly, so lots of money on tires—good thing you have budget!), slowly moving up to shorter dirt strips and then lake-bed off-airport, etc. All of which I could be doing in a 172—although I’d be learning a lot less. Don’t get me wrong I really really love my cub, but if I’m ruthlessly practical it’s a little hard to justify. But then so is flying so what the hell.

-Aesthetics aside, tailwheel vs tricycle comes down to trading the risk of a groundloop vs the risk of nose wheel or prop damage. Unless you are doing advanced stuff the risk ratio is probably 100x former to latter. Practically speaking: early on I sat out a lot of windy days to avoid a prop strike I’d only have if I was flying somewhere I had no business being. As someone mentioned above.. NXCub has some real advantages. Or get a normal cub and a nice 182 for the same money.

-If you go TW find a guru instructor and pay him a lot, otherwise your choices are a pretty slow learning curve or bending a new airplane in a ground loop. Ask CC what the ground loop rate is for new owners, factory training notwithstanding. You have to be able to make mistakes to learn, and a good instructor will enable that. I had lots of instructors who were great guys but mostly just sat behind me while I did pattern work. Then one who forced to drive around on the runway at high speed, tail up, tail down, swerving wildly, in and out of ground effect until I was sweating buckets and my tires were bald. I dreaded flying with the guy, but unreal progress. Someone above mentioned confidence problems with shiny planes and that was me early on for sure. Wind minimums: 2 kts. Limiting.

-Get ready to be an aspiring mechanic whether you want to or not. New planes still have squawks, finding good service is tough, and even with a good mechanic being able to troubleshoot and help them figure out what’s going on is invaluable. I was reluctant at first but with some guidance have steadily increased what I’m comfortable doing. The good news is it’s become fun and satisfying, and knowing how it all goes together really helps my confidence as a pilot.

Hope this helps, have fun!

Good points stretch. Robert, if you can afford one of those new very light airplanes with slats and 60 degree flaps, the type gear is not an issue. They all fly the same. If you use ground effect to get off well below Vso and use power pitch and those great hover out of ground effect capabilities to touchdown slowly and softly like a bird (well below Vso), you will spend little distance rolling on the ground. Nose gear limitation is in taxi only. The rest is just macho.

The training and muscle memory limitations of newer airplanes is due to the wing engineering to mitigate adverse yaw. The nose will kinda go the correct way with aileron only leading to poor rudder usage. Again, good instructors teach leading rudder in turns and dynamic proactive rudder to keep wing level and nose directed accurately (between toes) at the target. Did your instructor insist on proper rate of horizontal nose movement for the angle of bank in turns? Did your instructor make you do Dutch rolls until you could keep the target between your toes while banking to at least 30 degrees each way? Did your instructor make you use rudder only to maintain longitudinal alignment and keep the wing level (no crosswind) on short final?

I'm going to take a different approach to my answer... If you're depending on someone else to do all the maintenance, then finding a great (not just good) mechanic is extremely important. Sadly, there are lots of "decent" mechanics out there, but the really great ones are few and far between.
Once you find a great one, talk to them about the aircraft you are considering, and ask how they would feel about maintaining each of those planes. They may or may not be experts on flying them (some are, some are not), but the great ones know what they know, and know what they don't know. (By the way, ask for an hour of his or her time, and offer to pay their shop rate for that hour. It will be one of the best investments you'll make during your research!)

If that mechanic is going to be maintaining the plane for you, it's important that they are comfortable with that particular airplane. My local mechanic (a great guy and good friend) candidly admitted to knowing absolutely nothing about maintaining tube-and-fabric airplanes, and flat-out told me that he will not perform annual inspections or pre-purchase inspections on them... Engine work? Prop work? Landing gear work? Sure. Just don't ask him to do stuff he isn't knowledgeable enough about doing to feel comfortable doing it. There just aren't enough rag-wings in the area for him to maintain any significant expertise with them. Thus, when I owned the Citabria, I had to fly 100 miles to another mechanic's shop to get my annual inspections done. That was the closest shop I could find that had an "old-school" tube-and-fabric guy who knew what he was doing and could do the work competently.

Better to own a C-182 or C-170/180/185 that your great mechanic is comfortable working on than a new Maule/CC/NGx or whatever that he or she is not as knowledgeable about. In the end, there are a lot more "airplane+pilot" combinations that are limited by the pilot than by the airplane...

stretch wrote:You sound a lot like me a couple years go.. I was new to aviation, backcountry interest, just me, not an aspiring mechanic, good budget (not turbine good but still more money than time/sense). My other constraint was I’m 6’5” which rules out some older airframes. Looked at C180 (too big), Supercub (don’t fit), Carbon cub (too specialized), settled an XCub (Sort of a mini 180 in my mind), now about 500 hrs total, 200 hrs in the xCub.

I had never looked at the specs on an X Cub, sounds like it's huge inside (by Cub standards)!