Hello Everyone,

Little bit about myself, I am 24, in the military, currently stationed in San Diego to ride out my shore duty before I officially move to college and hopefully bigger and better things.

I have been around airplanes and helicopters all my life and I can't believe it has taken this long to get committed to getting a PPL. Only one problem; I just broke my leg in a motorcycle accident... but as soon as it is healed up enough I will be in a cockpit!

I have been researching aircraft a lot and I think a C170B with 160hp+ is the best plane for me. My budget is about 40k, but I am open to any suggestions. It seems impossible to find a tail dragger to rent. Spending 40k on the ship and 13-18k a year flying her (I budgeted) I think I can get 100-200 hours a year. I want to split the costs with 1-3 other people to bring that down a bit but I can afford it as it is.

I like the 170B because it seems very economical to run, it's not slow, and I think it is rather well proven in the bush.

I saw there was a beautiful 170B offered on here but its over my price range.

This 170B over on aerotrader.ccom has caught my eye.

I am open to any suggestions or advice!

Josh

Finding a 170 with 160hp in that price range is going to be a big challenge. Look at J3s - and fly the crap out of it for a few years then upgrade.

Welcome!

The thing with RobW56's 170B is that it's been thoroughly updated in the last 2 years. Make sure you don't buy something that's just under $40K then put $10K into it + your devalued labor.

Welcome. A 170B is a great airplane even with the stock 145hp. If you're flying out of airports near seal level they have more than adequate performance. Just be sure and keep the weight within limits.

The plane on Aerotrader has been for sale for ever. It has an unusual engine in it and I personally would steer clear of it.

RobW56's 170B has a lot of nice stuff on it that would take you a whole lot of dollars and man hours to replicate. IMO it would be a super cool airplane to own. And no, I don't know him!

Looking at Rob's 170 I am very tempted to "make" it work.

Thanks for the advice regarding the 145hp power plant. I should probably buy a stock powered 170, run it to TBO then upgrade if I really feel a need for more power. I was seduced by the claimed cruise and climb speeds.

soyAnarchisto wrote:Finding a 170 with 160hp in that price range is going to be a big challenge. Look at J3s - and fly the crap out of it for a few years then upgrade.

I love the cub, but I want something that I could carry myself, another person, camping gear and potentially my dog too.. the 170 fits that bill. I guess I am open to 172 taildragger conversions, but they are never as cheap as 170's

soyAnarchisto wrote:Finding a 170 with 160hp in that price range is going to be a big challenge. Look at J3s - and fly the crap out of it for a few years then upgrade.

goes against everything I just said but...
http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_ ... bette.html

Welcome. J-3, Champ 7AC, Taylorcraft BC-12D, DC-65, Luscombe all reasonably priced. All cheap to fly. All good trainers.

Good luck

Zzz wrote:Make sure you don't buy something that's just under $40K then put $10K into it + your devalued labor.

Yeah, like I did! I put an easy 20k into it over the 6 years I've owned it with all the upgrades I did.

Your first airplane doesn't need to do anything other than get you through your private lessons and check ride, and build hours! Check out the Cessna 140 page. No, you can't take a friend and a dog camping in one, but those sort of trips tend to happen a lot less often than people think, and you can always rent something bigger for that once-a-year trip.

The 140/120's are inexpensive, reliable, and great time builders. When you get your first couple insurance quotes you'll see the appeal of a lower hull value and the ability to fly more hours sooner. You've got hundreds of flight hours ahead of you before you're hitting the backcountry airstrips with passengers and a cooler of beer, so don't worry if your first airplane isn't your dream machine.

Keep in mind what the requirements are for your private ticket. There's some required hood time; night hours...some other stuff I've forgotten. Point is that if you buy an airplane that isn't equipped to fulfill those requirements, you have a serious problem. Putting instruments or lighting or whatever into an airplane is always more expensive than just buying a plane with it already there. Know exactly what you're going to need before you buy anything!

And if you'll excuse me for being the voice of reason...while I LOVE taildraggers with all my heart and soul, you really do pay a premium for the luxury of flying a more demanding aircraft. Insurance is a LOT more expensive, but it doesn't end there. Finding a capable tailwheel instructor is hard enough, but finding one who wants to take a student from zero-to-private, and can do so in a reasonable time frame, is astoundingly rare. And then finding a tailwheel competent FAA examiner for your check ride is REALLY challenging. Depending on where you live you might have to come up with some travel money to get an examiner to come give you a check-ride in a taildragger. Fail your check ride and you'll be paying that money twice...additional stress a student pilot really doesn't need.

Then when it comes to plane-sharing, finding two or three other pilots who want to be part-owners in a tailwheel plane that someone is just learning in...well that's going to be a real special sort of group. It's not impossible, but it's real close.

I love taildraggers and have no interest in flying anything else, but I also learned in a good-old Cessna 152, and that didn't do me a bit of harm. If your budget is important to you, consider making a tailwheel your second airplane.

Good Luck!

A stock 170A makes a great, affordable trainer and you can haul a decent load to back country in it too.

Hammer wrote:Your first airplane doesn't need to do anything other than get you through your private lessons and check ride, and build hours! Check out the Cessna 140 page. No, you can't take a friend and a dog camping in one, but those sort of trips tend to happen a lot less often than people think, and you can always rent something bigger for that once-a-year trip.

The 140/120's are inexpensive, reliable, and great time builders. When you get your first couple insurance quotes you'll see the appeal of a lower hull value and the ability to fly more hours sooner. You've got hundreds of flight hours ahead of you before you're hitting the backcountry airstrips with passengers and a cooler of beer, so don't worry if your first airplane isn't your dream machine.

Keep in mind what the requirements are for your private ticket. There's some required hood time; night hours...some other stuff I've forgotten. Point is that if you buy an airplane that isn't equipped to fulfill those requirements, you have a serious problem. Putting instruments or lighting or whatever into an airplane is always more expensive than just buying a plane with it already there. Know exactly what you're going to need before you buy anything!

And if you'll excuse me for being the voice of reason...while I LOVE taildraggers with all my heart and soul, you really do pay a premium for the luxury of flying a more demanding aircraft. Insurance is a LOT more expensive, but it doesn't end there. Finding a capable tailwheel instructor is hard enough, but finding one who wants to take a student from zero-to-private, and can do so in a reasonable time frame, is astoundingly rare. And then finding a tailwheel competent FAA examiner for your check ride is REALLY challenging. Depending on where you live you might have to come up with some travel money to get an examiner to come give you a check-ride in a taildragger. Fail your check ride and you'll be paying that money twice...additional stress a student pilot really doesn't need.

Then when it comes to plane-sharing, finding two or three other pilots who want to be part-owners in a tailwheel plane that someone is just learning in...well that's going to be a real special sort of group. It's not impossible, but it's real close.

I love taildraggers and have no interest in flying anything else, but I also learned in a good-old Cessna 152, and that didn't do me a bit of harm. If your budget is important to you, consider making a tailwheel your second airplane.

Good Luck!

Thanks for the advice - I really have been taking a closer look at the 120/140's. I grew up in Africa and almost every plane in the bush was a taildragger. Maybe I am being a little too emotional about this decision. The last time I was out flying I was with a friend and we landed at one small, minimally maintained asphalt strip somewhere in southern California. There were coyote's running down the taxiway when we pulled up to get gas! I remember he kinda didn't want to be there, he didn't want to land on the rough(ish) runway and he really didn't like the coyote's running around, but I loved it. I really loved every second of it and I kinda want the people who share my airplane to love that kind of flying.

150-160 hp Pacer is one of the best bang for the buck you can find!! Lots of parts, easy to fix, and will make a real taildragger pilot out of ya!!
DENNY

+1 on a Pacer

TxAgfisher wrote:+1 on a Pacer

x2 on a Pacer. Probably the most undervalued 4-place light plane on the market. Some of them are rigged well and are sweethearts, and some of them are not easy taildraggers to fly. But in either case if you stay ahead of them they're good to go.

Rob's 170 is also a great value. He's put a lot of elbow grease in it and if I was in the market I'd be giving that plane a look for sure.

Yep, Pacer fits your mission and budget.


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I think I might be trying to do too much too fast. As much as I would love to take myself +1 and my dog as well as luggage that certainly wouldn't be the norm. A 140/150 or Luscombe might be best. I camp light - very light, I don't even sleep in a tent. Besides, If i get something smaller and cheaper I will have more money to spend on flying her.

Another thing to consider when buying a trainer is don't worry about how it looks!!! Paint don't make it fly! Lots of solid aircraft are passed by because the paint is bad. Just make sure it is a solid plane to begin with. That brings up another point. FIND YOU IA BEFORE YOU BUY A PLANE!!!!! If the IA that is taking care of the plane is not happy with it, you will be spending a lot to fix it!!! Make sure YOUR IA does the prebuy inspection and tells you what he wants fixed/changed to sign the plane off at the next annual inspection. I spent six months and looked at a LOT of planes before I found my first one.
DENNY

+ a bunch on Hammers advise and Denny's comments on paint and AI.

google n4650c to see a before and after example of paint. Do not know how the pics. got there.
There should be a few on/at my "gallery"?!?

Flew it for two or three summers for nothing but fuel and occasionally drag the owner around Idaho.

As for $$$$$$s I bought for near 60K - spent at least two years borrowing and renting while making it into the plane I wanted - eventually sold for 70K and still surrendered well over 100K plus uncountable hours.
Gotta love the process. No regrets - it went to a good home.

...but then I found this on Controller:



C-170A
$29,500
C-145-2
2550 TT
550 SMOH