Emory Bored wrote:I like everything but the spring gear. I think that Rans is working on a more rugged gear for the S-7 as we speak here. Perhaps it will end up on the S-20 as well.

I like it.

EB

Rans new "Bush Gear"



Looks familiar

Randy posted an update on the S-20 today. Going to be a good looking airplane.

http://www.rans.com/aircraft/itf_articles/itf-15.html

S-20 is looking pretty good...

Very nice.

I really like this new S-20! If I ever decide to build another plane this looks like a great candidate. I prefer a tandem for its all around view and centerline flying but I have noticed that my wife gets nausiated much quicker in it than she did in side by side seating planes. I think a lot of this may be due to the 'squirrliness' of the short tailed S-7 I have. Maybe it is me and my inability to keep the ball centered 100% of the time. The rudder is extremely sensitive in it. I think she would want to fly with me more often if she didn't get so nausiated.

If I ever need to rely on the self certified medical that the LSA regs offer, this will be my likely choice of plane. It even looks a bit like a baby Maule. I prefer the SxS seating so I can keep stuff handy while I'm flying. I like having snacks, camera, water, and other goodies within easy reach. This plane seems to provide everything I need except the 1,000 lb useful load of my Maule!

I looked at the assembled but not covered example at OSH this year....probably this airplane, actually. I was VERY impressed! This really looks like a winner...lots of cabin room, lots of baggage space, and a really nice looking airplane.

I think this one will take over there order book.

MTV

Hard to tell for sure, but it looks like the side windows are much smaller then the S-7 I am used to. I don't know how tall the guy in the picture is but his eyeballs are in the clear, just. Nothing like I recall in the T-Craft as per sideways viz, but not as good as the S-7 maybe.

If this two time S-7 builder built one I'd for sure carry that passenger side lexan down lower for better viz out the side. I did that in my Kitfox1 (just the passenger side as lexan is heavier then fabric by far) and it helped a lot. The S-7 has some of the best viz out there, side and forward, and just about anything else will be less but still plenty I suppose. What I really like about the S-20 design is the wing, ha ha.

I stopped to to meet/talk with Randy the other day on the way to NE Kansas to deliver the Chubster. Landed, taxied down to his shop, he met me at my door. Great guy. We had talked some a few years ago when I was looking at the s7,, and he remembered me. Thought that was pretty good with all he's got goin on.
Anyways, gave me a nice tour of the shop. Very impressive. Spent awhile talking about the s20. Looks like a great plane. He was talking to me about a 180hp UL engine for it. Weight with that engine was under 800lbs. Also has the cub style gear figured out and a builder in place for it. I think he said the cabin was 48" wide at the shoulder. Probly could put 3 seats across the front of that. Fly from the center and snacks on both sides . Baggage area is VERY large.

Looks like it will be a big hit for Rans.
Gary

Wow! This plane keeps looking better and better!

That weight of under 800 with a UL engine makes me automatically think how light I could get it using a Rotax 912S.... And let's all remember, that 180 horse isn't at a rpm a big prop can use, so a little mental HP de-rate is in order.

Like many who have visited other airplane "factories" in the past, it can sometimes be underwhelming when you realize what you thought was a solid proposition for your next plane is based in a rented tin box behind a strip mall. A here today and gone tomorrow feel is not what you want in your kit plane supplier to say the least.

Visiting the RANS plant is the opposite of that experience, anyone who does will walk away impressed. One little thing I remember (as a recovering framer) was in the shipping department: the perfectly situated air line fittings for the SENCO brand (my weapon of choice) air stapler and nail guns. Everything was just so, none of the make shift mickey mouse feel of a struggling under funded enterprise. And that was just the area where they knocked the crates together!

The BackCountryCub plant in Douglas Wyoming is another great facility that comes to mind, equally confidence inspiring, and I have to think the VANS plant is the same. But, the RANS facility has been there doing "it" for what.... 30 years now?

courierguy wrote:That weight of under 800 with a UL engine makes me automatically think how light I could get it using a Rotax 912S.... And let's all remember, that 180 horse isn't at a rpm a big prop can use, so a little mental HP de-rate is in order.

I wonder if with a 180hp engine they could bump up the gross weight (even though it would be out of the light sport cat) and take advantage of that big ol baggage area? Will the s7 wing design handle more the way it is?

There are a couple guys I know of that load up their S-7's with WAY more then what is recommended. They are also on floats and fly these heavy loads into Canada to their fishing spots. I have flown at close to gross a few times with mine and the performance is considerably sluggish compared to solo.

RANS lists the gross at 1320 for the S-7 wing, period. How much extra weight beyond that one wants to go depends on your faith in the boys in Kansas, your need, and how lucky you feel. There does seem to be a very comfortable margin of safety and utility at that number, we S-7 pilots know what we have done with it, but to advise others as to the wisdom of doing that on a routine basis is asking a lot. Ask Randy at the factory.

I see that 180 HP @ 3200 rpm UL engine weighs 242 lbs installed.

I thought I read somewhere that they designed the s20 for a max 1500 gross?

Tom,
In hindsight I probably should not have posted about the guys that said they might have flown over gross (heresay) as it is something I personally take quite seriously. I don't condone what these guys do at all. I agree that we should adhere to whatever a manufacture stipulates in order to keep our bodies in one piece. I got busted up once already and have no desire what so ever to venture down that road again. I haven't overloaded my S-7 personally as I stated, it becomes a completely different flying experience when I have a passenger. If I need to carry a big load I will fly something else.

WWhunter wrote: I might have flown at gross (+) a few times with mine and the performance is considerably sluggish compared to solo.

Generally speaking, it makes sense to me that overloading will be more noticeable in a smaller aircraft with lower hp, without getting into design issues. Each extra pound of weight had a larger effect relative to the aircraft's performance.

For instance, I am aware of a certain 200hp+ prop aircraft which has probably flown 1,000's of hrs loaded about 100lbs over gross, but the performance and design is such that you would never even notice as a pilot or observer; it seems to have proven (by field experience) not to be significantly dangerous provided the pilot isn't flying near the limits. But I am not saying I'd condone it.

With modern Apps it's so easy to do a W&B before any flight, takes about 10 seconds!

Rans S-20 flies!



From Randy's Facebook update:

Randy Schlitter wrote:Flight testing of the RAVEN went well today. The performance is looking very close to the S-7S with maybe a knot or two better speed, Vc checked out 99kts. Climb is impressive 1250 FPM, stalls in a forward CG condition are: 42, clean, 38 one notch, and 32 with full flaps. The flaps are very effective since they drop down a few degrees more than the S-7S. Handling is smooth and light, and very little adverse yaw. It is well dampened in pitch, and a little loose in yaw. You can expect to see some vertical/rudder changes and to stiffen up yaw, and make it as sweet or sweeter to fly than the Courier. The cabin is quiet and cozy the heater was able to keep up easy in 28 F. I am enjoying the plane, and look forward to completion of all flight testing. The landing gear are very nice, the wide stance and solid feel makes for awesome ground handling. Conditions were a light cross wind of 12kts at 35 degrees of runway heading. It is a very solid feeling plane and meets my expectations almost 100%. We will try to complete the testing prior to Sebring. If successful, expect to see it there.

First flight video is here. Hope you all can see this.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10 ... =2&theater