I'm here to learn.

I live in Pennsylvania. The highest elevation in the state is 3,213 feet, (Mt. Davis in Somerset County).

I own and fly a Cessna 150; an airplane very capable for the kind of flying I do and quite suitable for the terrain I'm familiar with. I've flown all over the Northeast, and Mid-west which of course is no great challenge.

I explained in another thread that I lived in Idaho for a short time and I still haven't gotten over it!

Don't worry; I'm too old to think of moving there. But my dream is to return some day and experience Idaho from the air.

I have some friends who own Cessna 150/150's. Pilots from Oregon who frequently fly into JC and other popular wilderness airports.

I'm smart enough to know that a stock C-150 is not very well suited for many of the backcountry areas of the Rockies. But I'd like an honest opinion from Western pilots to find out if I should continue to delude myself into thinking I might someday fly my plane to Idaho or to just give it up.

I value your opinions, but please don't insult my intelligence by pointing out my aircraft's limitations. I know them. I'm 65 years old and have been flying a while. I'd just like to see something of Idaho while I'm still able.

It's geography I'm interested in. What backcountry fields are my best bet to get in and out of with only 100 horsepower without wrecking myself or my airplane?

I'd appreciate any help you can give me.

There are all types of remote strips in Idaho, some can be easily done in a 150, some can't. Everyone will agree on the absolutely easy ones and the absolutely impossible ones, but there will probably be a bit of "discussion" on the gray zone between!

If I had a 150, off the top of my head I think I'd take it into Priest Lake, Cavanaugh Bay, Moose Creek, Johnson Creek, Chamberlain Basin, Indian Creek, Idaho City, for sure. Plus a few others if I could load it lightly enough.

Tell us more about your plane and what you hope to do. You might know its limitations, but some of us need refreshing!

Do you have 40 deg. manual flaps?

Do you have a climb or cruise prop?

Do you have wheel pants? If so, you can save about 20 pounds by ditching them.

How big are your fuel tanks? I seem to recall the standard tanks are 11 per side on a 150. You could get to some strips and back on half tanks, others might need 3/4 tanks or more to keep a good safety margin.

Are you wanting to go solo?

Are you wanting to take camping equipment or just day trips?

How light can you get your plane? That will have a direct bearing on your ability to takeoff at high density altitude. What's gross weight, about 1600?

That ought to be enough info to get the fights started!

BTW, I was SHOCKED and AWED at how feebly my lightly loaded 172 climbed on more than one occasion in the back country. I wasn't surprised, because when there was any question, I had checked the takeoff performance charts and made sure I had a huge safety margin. The plane performed about like the charts predicted, and I still experienced major pucker factor. Be safe!

hello

kevbert,

Thanks for your quick response to my post. The Idaho locations you mentioned as being accessible to my 150 are pretty much the ones I expected. They will serve my purpose very well.

I am familiar with the SLC & Great Falls sectionals and have "test flown" some of them with a 152 program on MS flight sim. Certainly not the same by a long shot but it gave me a vague idea of what 100 hp can do at high altitude. That was very informative. The prospect of getting in and out of those places will need skill, some courage, and all of my attention!!

My 1967 Cessna 150G has a factory rebuilt Continental O200-A engine with about 600 hours on it and a standard prop. It is rated at 100 hp, and I have 40 degrees of flaps. My normal rate of climb at sea level is an anemic 5-600 fpm. Useable fuel is 22.5 gallons.

I weigh 185 lbs and would be solo with about 80 pounds of camping/survival gear. Max take off weight is ostensibly 1600 lbs. but I've found the book figures to be way too conservative for the 150.

I'm under no illusions about the feeble performance to be expected at some of the elevations I would been at in ID. I would hope to be able to meet and be accompanied a couple of my 150 pilot friends from OR who are familiar with some of the backcountry strips.They can guide me and I can benefit from their (and your) experience.

I fell in love with the mountains of Idaho when I was there but I've no intention of doing something stupid and burying myself in one of them!

Thanks again for your advice. You can bet I'll follow it closely.

patrol guy,

Thanks. The video of the "Cessna 150 Bush Pilot" was one of the first posts that caught my eye when I first checked out BCP.

kevbert,

Thanks for your quick response to my post. The Idaho locations you mentioned as being accessible to my 150 are pretty much the ones I expected. They will serve my purpose very well.

I am familiar with the SLC & Great Falls sectionals and have "test flown" some of them with a 152 program on MS flight sim. Certainly not the same by a long shot but it gave me a vague idea of what 100 hp can do at high altitude. That was very informative. The prospect of getting in and out of those places will need skill, some courage, and all of my attention!!

My 1967 Cessna 150G has a factory rebuilt Continental O200-A engine with about 600 hours on it and a standard prop. It is rated at 100 hp, and I have 40 degrees of flaps. My normal rate of climb at sea level is an anemic 5-600 fpm. Useable fuel is 22.5 gallons.

I weigh 185 lbs and would be solo with about 80 pounds of camping/survival gear. Max take off weight is ostensibly 1600 lbs. but I've found the book figures to be way too conservative for the 150.

I'm under no illusions about the feeble performance to be expected at some of the elevations I would been at in ID. I would hope to be able to meet and be accompanied a couple of my 150 pilot friends from OR who are familiar with some of the backcountry strips.They can guide me and I can benefit from their (and your) experience.

I fell in love with the mountains of Idaho when I was there but I've no intention of doing something stupid and burying myself in one of them!

Thanks again for your advice. You can bet I'll follow it closely.

patrol guy,

Thanks. The video of the "Cessna 150 Bush Pilot" was one of the first posts that caught my eye when I first checked out BCP.

PA150, As an alternative you could come out and we could use my 182 and let you fly into the back country strips of Idaho. That way you wouldn't have to fly the 150 clear across the country. I think your airplane could handle some of these strips, but your reserves are real short if you have a down draft or a sinker at some landing site. I would be glad to help you as I have said, let me know. Skybobb. back country videos are here: www.youtube.com/skybobb

I have to agree with skybobb's concern over downdrafts. If you're flying in deep canyons, it's amazing all the things that the wind will do. It's not a bad idea to use a higher performance plane for any strip that offers even the slightest challenge.

He's dead wrong about not coming out in the 150, though. I'd rather do that than deal with the security theater of commercial airlines anyday!

Back to the point. Downdrafts bad. Lightweight good. I only carry about 40 lbs. of camping gear, but I'm accustomed to backpacking. For one night, I can get it down around 20. I'd advise finding some place like McCall or something to stash any extra gear and just take the absolute minimum. Or, maybe you can get one of your 150 hp buddies to haul some of it for you.

Hey PA150 which airport are you based at?

kevbert & skybobb,

You guys are great! This is the reason I opted to ask on this forum before even attempting to venture into unfamiliar territory.

I never thought of or knew about potential downdrafts. No one has ever mentioned them before. Obviously you folks are talking from experience.

I still intend to fly my 150 across the country to Idaho. That's half the fun of getting there. Once there I'll make arrangements to meet up with some of you local guys at McCall or somewhere and discuss Plan "B". Preferably over one, or two, or ten beverages.

wayne wrote:Hey PA150 which airport are you based at?

wayne,

I'm based at Pottstown Muni (N47). Where do you hang out?

I'm based at PTW and I'm trying to think who own's a 150 there LOL.

My son and I plan on going to JC this year also. I also see your going to Rods flyin at 50PA.

wayne wrote:I'm based at PTW and I'm trying to think who own's a 150 there LOL.

My son and I plan on going to JC this year also. I also see your going to Rods flyin at 50PA.

There are 3 other 150's that I know of here at N47. John Klingerman, Carl something or other, and I don't know who owns the 3rd one.

I've been to the Pottstown Owners & Pilots annual breakfast at PTW. Tom Kozel has a 150G based there. I know him through our association with the Cessna 150-152 Club. Tom is also one of our Keystone Flight pilots. We have our own forum at http://keystoneflight.freeforum.org/

It's just a loose knit group of pilots who like flying formation together to different parts of the Northeast. Check it out. All aircraft welcome!

pa150 wrote:I never thought of or knew about potential downdrafts. No one has ever mentioned them before. Obviously you folks are talking from experience.

Yeah, the ride of my life was at Big Creek.

Canyons are DEEP (3000 ft deep at Big Creek, 4000 ft at JC, 7000 ft at Wilson Bar, 8000 ft at Big Bar). Runways are often in the bottom. Sun shines on one side of canyon walls. Walls heat. Thermals rise. Air must come back down somewhere! You won't see it, but fly through one in a wimpy plane and you will experience my previously mentioned pucker factor! And, once you know all that, you know to never fly in the midday in the summer in the Idaho backcountry. Some people won't fly after 11 AM. Some won't fly after 10 AM. It all depends on your equipment, your route, and your experience.

There are only about a million other things you need to know. Do yourself a favor and schedule some instruction time with a good mountain pilot. Ride with experienced friends, or pay money to someone like Lori MacNichol.

http://www.mountaincanyonflying.com/

pa150
As far as aircraft performance if I had your plane I would first get it as light as possible even taking out carpets and pass seat.
Learn about tuning.Make sure timing is correct,air filter clean,learn to lean it at higher density altitude for max power.
Tire pressure is a factor in T/O roll.
The 150G was also built as a floatplane and as such used a 1A90CF75-35 or 75-38 prop.It is an awesome take off and climb prop.If you have a savvy IA you might be able to get a legal install approved.It is on the type certificate so the onlly legal hurdle is the prop ground clearance requirements.
Early 150s had a big nose fork and 600-6 tire and may also be doable .I know it has been done legally so check the stc database.

Bill

Pottstown Muni is a great airport. I wish I lived closer, currently I have a bird without a home. Was at Kutztown for many years . Last year at the Smoketown Flyin a formation of 150s came in. Was that Keystone Flight? The link you posted for Keystone Flight's website does not seem to work, it sounds like a fun club.

Nick

Swingwing wrote:Pottstown Muni is a great airport. I wish I lived closer, currently I have a bird without a home. Was at Kutztown for many years . Last year at the Smoketown Flyin a formation of 150s came in. Was that Keystone Flight? The link you posted for Keystone Flight's website does not seem to work, it sounds like a fun club.

Nick

Yep, the formation of150's at the Smoketown Fly-in was Keystone Flight. We're starting to become well-known in the area since we try to fly as much as possible and usually swoop into different places like a pack of wolves.

We frequent fly ins and air museums or just find someplace to go to check out an on-field or nearby restaurant.

We welcome anyone who wants to join us regardless of aircraft type.
Try this link again: http://keystoneflight.freeforums.org/

Keep flying-__l___
__________ (*)___________
don't stop- 0/---\0

skybobb wrote:Keep flying-__l___
__________ (*)___________
don't stop- 0/---\0

skybobb,

I checked out your videos on youtube last night. From what I could see you seem to have a whole bunch of fun with your airplane. For some reason several of the the videos were very blurry. I couldn't make out the features of the terrain. Paticularly the farm you were landing at.

That was disappointing since I enjoyed the other ones you had there. I often go to youtube for my Idaho flying fix. Thanks for your contributions.

I had some problems with my camcorder and I am hoping the $149.00 I spent to fix it will make my next videos a little better quality. I do have fun flying and I love to share with others. I guess my 32 years in the classroom had something to do with that. I have a few more places I want to go and video.

By the way I visited your area a few years back when you had that rain and flood. I have a BIL that lives NW of Reading. We were visiting. Have you ever flown into Grimes at Bethel? That is a neat little airport. Bob

Bob,

It's ironic you should mention Grimes. I've been back in PA over a year and a half and have flown over 8N1 at least 2 dozen times.

It's on my short list of places to fly into because they have the Golden Age of Aviation museum there. But every time my friends have gone there I've had to pass because of other commitments.

Another trip I want to make is to Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome in Kingston, NY. It features WWI aircraft and they put on a great show in the summer. Keystone Flight had an overnight trip planned last fall but the weather messed us up. We hope to reschedule that this year.

There are plenty of great places here in the Northeast to fly that are no problem for my trusty 150. I just want to see Idaho again before I kick off!