I am a newbie to this site as I enjoy the refurbish ideas and pictures. You can't fly these things for 1000s of hours and not be interested in their journey.
I am particularly fascinated about the interest in BAS harnesses, or something equivalent. Same for the helmet issue.
Without going into great detail, between a huge downdraft on final and my looking for feeding steelhead I crashed a fine example of a Cessna 180 at Wilson Bar in Idaho. I had no helmet, but did have the first generation BAS harnesses in use.
I did have injury, lots of gashes and stitches on my face, and purple/yellow contusions on my chest and neck. A MRI was performed at McCall as preventative analysis.
The back of my head was really swollen from gear flying forward THROUGH the cargo net. The ice cooler had nicked my head and shoulder after it broke through the cargo net supplied to me by an Alaska outfit (kind of flimsy with carabiner attachments to hard points on the door post). That cooler went on to actually somewhat dent the thick V brace on the windscreen OUTWARDS. Those V braces of the H model 180s are thicker than the F model 185s upon inspection.
Also, your body folds at the spine when forward motion is abruptly stopped. The shoulders go back as they are restrained, the chest goes out as well as the neck snaps forward. You could see that with my contusions on my chest for several weeks.
So, the helmet idea is a good one, for not only forward/top/side impacts, but for gear attacks from the rear. Just do not assume it will protect your face, as your face is going forward should you abruptly stop. The motorcycle helmet makers know this, as do the businesses like the Forest Service. The BAS harnesses are essential to all Cessnas, for sure. I do think the Hookers are more preventative of the body bifolding on impact, but I have never seen Hookers in a Skywagon or for that fact any Cessnas. I do hear, however, that there are some around. Access to that Johnson bar flap handle could be problematic with the Hookers, what with my 50 hrs of aerobatic training in a Citabrias taught me.
This is just my experience I thought it best to share. I won't post (like I could figure out the picture post thing here anyway) pictures of upside down airplanes or blood, but this is real experience sharing with you. A good set of newer generation BAS harnesses and helmet with faceguard would be good addition to travel to remote places where you are just one step from an intake valve seizing or you smell something hot and you are in a canyon. And don't ignore the availability of good cargo nets. Just bring $
As the guy said, sorry for the interruption.

Welcome. Good report. Sounds like a decent crash. You are not alone in that situation.

Welcome, thanks for sharing your story and glad you made it out okay.

Thanks for sharing your story, AND proving that you're still alive

The FAA Alaska Region's December 2010 study of helmets, airbags, harnesses, and etc. didn't address the value of a really good cargo net, though there was some mention of baggage and cargo "shifting" because it wasn't held in place... i.e. joining the pilot and passengers up front... See: http://www.northstarsurvivalsolutions.com/uploads/FSI_Report_AK.pdf

The report is a good read. Of 649 accidents in Alaska between 1/1/2004 and 12/31/2009 97 involved fatalities or serious injuries. 1/3 of those (33) had no survivors. The FAA offered this set of interesting observations regarding those 64 accidents with survivors. As I read the report combining multiple measures (helmet + 4 point, for example) might have resulted in some additional (but likely not additive) benefits.

o 31 lives might have been saved through the installation of air bag seat belts
o 33 lives might have been saved through the use of helmets in tandem seat airplanes, such as Super Cubs
o 28 lives might have been saved with the use of shoulder harnesses, primarily in passenger seats
o 19 lives might have been saved through survival training
o 21 lives could have been saved through the proper use of personal floatation devices in float planes
o 18 lives could have been saved through the use of rescue air bottles to prevent drowning in float plane accidents
o 12 lives could have been saved if the airplane had been equipped with an effective emergency location device, such as a 406 Mhz Emergency Locator Transmitter

I've got the 4 point harnesses on both front seats of my aircraft, a 406 ELT, and a helmet for back country/mountain flying. After my ADS/B mandate is paid for I think I'll add inertial reel/airbag 4 point harnesses on the pilot side. I've learned from experience that when my engine is uncooperative I might not have time (or excess attention) to tighten up the shoulder harnesses before 'landing'.

Compared to any inertia reel type shoulder harness system, the fixed Hooker harness is slightly more secure, has fewer moving parts, and has no history of occasionally locking or unlocking at an inconvenient time. Reaching the Johnson Bar while using the Hooker system is rather easily dealt with...

EZFlap wrote:Reaching the Johnson Bar while using the Hooker system is rather easily dealt with...

Katie bar the door...

Bigrenna wrote:

EZFlap wrote:Reaching the Johnson Bar while using the Hooker system is rather easily dealt with...

Katie bar the door...

Is there going to be a second video?

EZFlap wrote:... Reaching the Johnson Bar while using the Hooker system is rather easily dealt with...

Maybe. It would be easy if flap travel was limited to 30 degrees. Full flaps to 40 degrees? ? The geometry ain't so easy.

PapernScissors wrote:

EZFlap wrote:... Reaching the Johnson Bar while using the Hooker system is rather easily dealt with...

Maybe. It would be easy if flap travel was limited to 30 degrees. Full flaps to 40 degrees? ? The geometry ain't so easy.

Looking around the leading edge of the wing in a turn is a so hard with hookers...

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Not sure why anyone would install straight harnesses over inertial reel these days. Safety issues with BAS are pretty much non existent AND you can reach the entire flap range with them as well as lean over in a turn. As said, they are a fantastic mod.

As for helmets, and the OP's story, thanks. I appreciate you sharing. I ordered a Gallet for myself six weeks ago for use in the county's Supercub fire plane. Should be here Fri, but that's a frustrating story for its own post!

I've had the BAS harnesses in the front seats for 13 years, and I'm convinced that anyone who still relies on just lap belts in front is taking a huge risk--not every landing is a pretty one.

But I have a hard time believing that I'd always wear a helmet. Not disagreeing that it's a good idea, just that I'm not likely to wear it. I wear one on my scooter and on my bike, but not in the car. Then I'd start thinking, "well, is this trip to a place where I'm more likely to crash?" So meanwhile, no helmet.

Cary

Quickdraw1 wrote:
Is there going to be a second video?

If there is another video on that particular subject, it'll be my turn to make the video, and rest assured it will feature a legitimate flight test, by a qualified pilot who does not have a personal or financial interest/like/dislike/agenda related to the modification being tested.

exVXclimber wrote:Without going into great detail, between a huge downdraft on final and my looking for feeding steelhead I crashed a fine example of a Cessna 180 at Wilson Bar in Idaho

Thank you for posting this, and your points about stowage.

Seems that's an often ignored aspect of high performance travel. As someone who was inside a HMMWV that rolled a number of times in steep terrain with all the hard, pointy gear typically carried inside those things flying around the interior, I gained deep appreciation for properly securing gear. What's that old definition of experience - something you gain by surviving the event?

I'm currently trying to figure out how to best secure stuff in our 180.

Glad you brought this up.

Q: how old was your cargo net, what was it made of, and how much time did it sustain in the sun/UV exposure before that fateful day?

Timbuk2
Man, I would love to share more about hard points, Field Approvals, cargo nets with cum alongs, barrier nets, but I am afraid my patience to share via pictures or discussions on a more "modern" website like this is quite thin. It is just not practical to share ideas on this format with my lack of graphic or computer skills, especially in the realm of file pictures though I have a lot of them on the subject.
There are certainly several on here that can do wonders with graphics, videos, and such. Maybe one of them one day can illustrate the install of D rings, come along cargo nets, etc. The Cessna Skywagon comes with a lot of hardpoints that owners never fully utilize.
All I can tell you is most of you are just one runway incursion/engine fire in a canyon/intake valve destruction/or glob of RTV in your carburetor from needing to restrain your cargo from developing ft lbs of destruction heading your way. Most of you might want to investigate how to better prepare for some kind of eventuality whereas your cargo needs to be restrained. Barrier nets are a start, but not the eventual prevent defense. Those hard points in the back of your plane as well as the seat rails are key.
Keep up the improvement pics and stories of the Skywagons, I really enjoy them..

Welcome. There are those that have and those that will...

I love my Bonehead helmet no question! Feels weird to fly without it now



AKT


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That Bonehead looks sweet. I'll have to check those out.
However, Kevin, don't tell the wife I said so, but you may want to lose the wedding ring when out in the field. Google "finger degloving." I witnessed an old buddy doing it by simply stepping off the first rung of a step ladder whilst installing shelving brackets, and it isn't pretty. Not much surgical fix, either.

aktahoe1 wrote:Welcome. There are those that have and those that will...

I love my Bonehead helmet no question! Feels weird to fly without it now



AKT


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I wear a rubber ring 100% of the time for that reason.

And Kevin, that chinstrap works a lot better when fastened!

CamTom12 wrote:I wear a rubber ring 100% of the time for that reason.

And Kevin, that chinstrap works a lot better when fastened!

Some years ago I came upon a motorcycle accident in the Poudre Canyon, while returning from chaperoning some kids at a church retreat. The guy was all bleedy and scraped up, including his head. My first thoughts were that he wasn't wearing a helmet, but about 30 yards away, there was his helmet, all scraped and cracked--he'd obviously had it on, but it was quick to leave his head as soon as it hit the pavement, while he continued on sliding down the road.

Cary