Well said Gump.

And Brian is on point...any news?

TFR is gone today, FAA looking car at JC in front of camera, 4 days of hard freezing weather? Would like to still have hope.

Looking at "No joy". Very sad reminder of dangers. Hopefully we learned something.

piperpainter wrote:Gracious! Can we get back to the topic that we still have a plane lost with 5 people! My goodness!

Bryan, we are!

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have an endless loop playing through my brain of what ShysDad went through, and why it should have never happened. And the reasons it did happen.

Getting pissed off and riled up is what makes change happen. Hopefully our little group here may stir up enough shit to the right people to actually make things better.

For a "what if" scenario... You break your Mooney out in the desert near Austin Nevada. It's cold and you're hurt. The "officials" get involved when you're reported overdue and initiate their search, complete with TFR (like you're important enough for a TFR ) Meanwhile Pops Dory heads to the airport to fire up the Super Cub to go look for you. He's met at the airport gate, told the airspace is locked down to make it safe for the "real" search aircraft, and he needs to get the f**k out of the way to let the professionals handle this. So there he sits on the ground.

I don't know about you, but I want the Joe Dory's of the world looking for me if I get lost in their neighborhood.

Rant over.

Gump

I am going to start making noise again I think. I have a plan, it is silly that it again comes to another families lives ruined. This isnt about flightplans any longer, that stopped after I talked to you guys. This is now about Beacons, PLB's and SAR strategies now. CSStricker, I read your post earlier and I want to say Thank You from the bottom of my heart and soul for looking for my Shyann. If you EVER need anything do not hesitate to ask and I will drop everything to help you my friend. I consider you brother now, you risked your safety for my child and I WILL NEVER FORGET THAT....
Shyann if you are listening pay attention, I am not done fighting for you and others.....Love dad

What is "no joy"?

SARs in District 14 are ruled under Meritocracy Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy).

Only those pilot and observers who have the skills, local ocean knowledge and guts get to search. It is dangerous searching offshore with weak pilots and crew. And yes the FAA allows us to have Marine VHF 337ed in our aircraft to talk with surface vessels too.

ShysDad wrote:What is "no joy"?

no joy Definition Meaning of - The Online Slang Dictionary
onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/no-joy
This Slang page is designed to explain what the meaning of no joy is. ... reports " no joy" when an attempt to establish visual or radio contact with another aircraft ...

ShysDad wrote:What is "no joy"?

Failure to make visual sighting; or inability to establish radio communications.

Thank You, I am still learning

Me, too. I'm encouraged that there is a model to follow.

Barnstormer wrote:

lowflyinG3 wrote:Washington has what you describe. http://www.wasar.org

Looks exactly like what I had in mind, and an adjacent state. I would imagine they would be willing to provide their expertise/experience to assist in other state's pilots forming a similar organization. The process might even help rejuvenate their own organization.

Tough love here, time to quit whining and being part of the problem, and become part of the solution.

Here is the latest.

Inclement weather scales back search for missing plane Friday
POSTED: 2 hr
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airplane search continues
CASCADE, Idaho -
Due to poor weather and lack of new information, the search for the missing airplane in Valley County will be scaled back today (Friday, Dec. 6). Poor visibility has led to grounding of aircraft, leaving a limited number of ground searchers who will be working the area today until the weather no longer permits safe operation.

Since radar contact was lost Sunday afternoon (Dec. 1), officials have dedicated all available resources and exhausted every option in finding the plane. Multiple Idaho Army National Guard helicopters, a Customs and Border Protection helicopter, and a privately-held helicopter, have combed the area as have multiple fixed-wing aircraft from the Idaho Transportation Department, Civil Air Patrol and citizens.

Ground crews, including those from Valley County Sheriff’s Office, Valley County Search and Rescue, Idaho Mountain Search and Rescue, Idaho Fish and Game, U.S. Forest Service and members of the family, have hiked the ridges and valleys in the vicinity of Johnson Creek Airstrip and the surrounding areas.

The temporary flight restriction (TFR) issued by the Federal Aviation Administration in the search area has been lifted. The TFR limited airspace travel to authorized aircraft, eliminating conflicts between searchers and transitioning aircraft.

The Valley County Sheriff’s Office will continue to consider other options and possibilities if and when new information comes available and as conditions and resources allow. Officials are asking for any pilot flying in the area to keep an eye out for any signs of the missing aircraft. The possibility exists for the aircraft to be outside of the initial search area, but the vast and remote nature of the backcountry area limits the ability to extend the search any further at this time.

“Forecasts call for snowfall throughout the weekend and into next week,” said Incident Commander Lt. Dan Smith with the Valley County Sheriff’s Office.

“Even though we want to locate this plane, the one thing we cannot do is put people in harm’s way.”

This release was sent out by the Idaho Department of Transportation.

What a nightmare for the families...My heart is breaking for them, I know their pain........

GumpAir wrote:I can't speak for anyone else, but I have an endless loop playing through my brain of what ShysDad went through, and why it should have never happened. And the reasons it did happen.

Gump

The same goes for me. I guess because family members were also involved in this crash, it hits home hard. Like others I've taken these thoughts and channeled it towards improved flight safety. I already carry a survival kit, but thinking about mountain flying in particular, and looking forward to bringing my new SQ-2 down home from Alaska in the Spring, I did a little more research, saw the Alaskan and Canadian survival kit requirements, and subsequently ordered some additional items.

As members of a very unique fraternity of aviators I feel we have an obligation to be an example and set the standard of safety for those venturing into or over the mountains. From my perspective education is mostly what is lacking. The technology and equipment already exists.

Case in point. I'd never heard of a PLB until watching an episode of Flying Wild Alaska about a lost snowmobiler. Seems silly for that to be my first exposure to such an important and inexpensive piece of "here I am, come rescue me" gear.

Another case in point. I don't recall for sure but I'll bet it was this site that introduced me to "SPOT" like technologies. I choose an inReach as it best supports my needs.

Business has taught me that one should never identify a problem without also proposing a solution. So here is one I propose.

Shyann's story could be told in video (with ShysDad's blessing and support of course), backed up by stories like this one, explaining how easy and inexpensive a different outcome could have been - with either saved lives and/or quicker closure for surviving family and friends. But wasn't for only the lack of education and a few hundreds of dollars.

I believe an organization like AOPA or EAA would be more then willing to produce such a video if approached. I also know we have some talented producers here as well that might want to take this project on. Either way I believe it is critical that Backcountry Pilots bring their knowledge to such a project.

Done properly and promoted properly (Internet makes that relatively easy) this educational video should go viral in the aviation community.

I'll say right now that I would support something like this in any way I was asked. I know others here would as well.

Who better to own this solution then those of us that love and fly the backcountry!

I am currently writing a book but I think the video idea is a solid one. I am doing research into all of the times that lives have been lost when better equipment and better searches could have save lives. We have a facebook page entitled "Prayers for Trista, Shy and Matt". It chronicles the entire SAR and what the family has gone through. I firmly believe that education and knowledge is the answer. I originally believed in legislation but the utter chaos of the search and some good advice from the heartbeat of GA changed my mind (you guys and other pilots). Regulation is not needed except I think changing to a 406 mHz beacon is something that should be done. The key is Knowledge. I thank everyone on this page for help in understanding and I admire the love you all share for flying. This could end up being more lives lost when they could have been saved. But we dont know that yet, but it does not look good.....

Take a look at how SAR is handled here in Montana. As noted earlier, the states have the immediate responsibility for SAR in their own territory, and in Montana, the State Division of Aeronautics puts on training sessions each year to train mountain search pilots. This system has been in place for a number of years, and it works well.
The State reimburses volunteer pilots for their fuel used in searches.

For anyone interested in encouraging their state to go this direction, I'd have them get in touch with Montana's Director of Aeronautics....Debbie Alke, and see how it works here.

My experience has been pretty negative with regard to CAP, and like others, I'd much rather have folks like on this forum looking for me. I've seen downed pilots, snow machiners and boaters found several times before CAP even got their "command post" set up, all the while telling local pilots to stay out of the search area......

My personal experience with CAP involved a broken axle on a remote lake.....turned on my ELT, and in due course, a CAP 185 on wheel skis showed up. I talked to them on my radio and told them where there was a huge area perfect to land on skis.......their response: "We're not allowed to land on skis". Then they asked if I had survival gear to spend the night. I responded that I did but I'd sure much rather go home. They asked if I wanted them to pass on a message to anyone. I told them a friends name and number, since he was a mechanic, and I'd need help fixing the plane.

Next afternoon, the friend came looking for me with a friend of his in his friends airplane. They were impressed that I'd spent the night out at - 45 F. Later, I found out that the CAP had called the State Troopers the afternoon before and cancelled the search. They had told my friend that they'd found me, so they were done. He organized a "rescue", fortunately for me. I later talked to the troopers, and found out when CAP called them, they said I was taken care of. The Troopers had a couple ski planes sitting there, as did my employer.

The take home message is never trust the CAP to have their shit together. I was naive, and assumed they'd arrange to get me picked up....not their job, apparently, nor did they see to it that someone else did it. If my friend hadn't taken it on himself to line up a pilot and plane.......a second night out there would have been mighty cold.

MTV

Those guys almost killed you MTV! They did not attempt to land or get somebody else! Frick'n nuts.

MTV,

Was that in Alaska? I thought they had their shit together up here a little better than the lower 48 stories we hear.

-DP

Videos are easy - and do not need large amounts of money for production. Youtube and Vimeo are the kings for publishing - then it's grass roots evangelizing. Everybody forward it to everybody else. EAA, RAF, BCP, and all the states flying organizations all plug.

Produce some content for FAA WINGS program - another good idea.

I think fly-ins and shows are a major way to get out the word on the message. Volunteers can hang fliers at FBOs, hand them out at Oshkosh, Sun'nFun etc.

I've said this before. I will personally sign up to go door to door and raise awareness. I'd like to see a coordinated effort - but it has to swell from the ground.

I'll also do anything I can should one of these unfortunate events happen here in the Rocky Mountains.

I think step one is to from a nonprofit foundation. Accept donations. Decide on the most effective ways to raise awareness and improve education. Boot strap it and it will grow. Maybe give away some PLBs. Create a web site to tell the story. Gather energy to organize and train volunteers for the existing air SAR or create new ones where they don't already exist.

Put a 406 ELT in your airplane. Period. It's not for you. It's for your family.

Alaska SAR works, because highly trained and experienced people from Alaska State Troopers, Alaska Air Guard Rescue, USCG, and National Parks Service are the incident commanders for the events...people who run SAR cases multiple times each week, who know how to coordinate both professional and volunteer search efforts in a safe and effective method.

Become part of the solution. I can't solve your lower '48 problems, but YOU can.

Volunteer and get some cred with the local sheriff or incident command structure. Find a way to ADVOCATE that your local authority attend the INLAND SAR Course. Or, get them to to sponsor you to attend one. It's a traveling course, so it may be in your area. Parts of the course will probably piss you off...It's not the 100% solution, or even an 80% one, but it'll help. I've found that while I take note of the course content, the real value is establishing great connections with other SAR professionals in your area. That in itself makes for a more effective search effort.

Shys Dad - You need to be a guest speaker at some of these...not sure how to make that happen yet.

For folks likely to be put in the Incident Command role, a one week course on search management:
http://www.uscg.mil/tcyorktown/Ops/SAR/ ... inland.asp
LOCATION DATES
Cape Cod, MA 9-10 Nov 13
Reisterstown, MD 7-8 Dec 13
Tucson, AZ 11-12 Jan 14 San Juan, PR 15-16 Feb 14
West Palm Beach, FL 15-16 Mar 14
Westchester, NY 12-13 Apr 14
Boise, ID 17-18 May 14
Chamblee, GA 14-15 June 14
Oakland, CA 12-13 July 14
Madison, WI 9-10 Aug 14
Chattanooga, TN 20-21 Sept 14

For folks likely to assist in a SAR, and would like more information, a weekend course:
http://www.uscg.mil/tcyorktown/Ops/SAR/inland/bisc.asp

The CAP guys do great work up here, working for highly trained incident commanders. The volunteer searchers are just as effective, and when included as part of the overall SAR plan, oftentimes provide the micro-scale local area knowledge that provides the final clues to a successful rescue.

Maybe one of the next big fly-ins can host a local area SAR discussion...bring in your state or county's team. Educate them on what you might be able to provide, maybe set up some "practice" events to start building that credibility...

Anyone can bitch on an internet forum Sack up and do something about it.

KW