Its been breezy in the mountains and flying over might be a better option than through them this time of year. So I just bought a skyox click-a-breath regulator.

I'm planning on piecing the rest of the system together. Does anyone have this regulator? Does it screw right onto a standard medical tank or is there another adapter/fitting that I need?

Any other tips for a portable system?

Long discussion of roll-your-own oxygen systems, might be useful for you:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/s ... ght=oxygen

With all the possibilities of doing it wrong, I much prefer a ready made system, such as Precise Flight sells. There are several others, of course, but I have the PF 22 cu.ft. version. In addition to your regulator, you'll need a tank, hoses, cannulas, masks, and individual flow meters. Cannulas are supposedly good to 18,000', but I find that they become much less effective as I climb up to 15,000', which is about as high as my airplane can go. You also have to train yourself and your passengers to breathe through their noses, or cannulas won't work at all.

You'll also need somewhere to put the tank while in use--mine is in a "back pack" that attaches securely to the back of the passenger seat--and you do want such a heavy item to be very well secured, especially going over the mountains. By the time you add it all up, you'll likely spend as much as if you bought it ready made--roughly $600-$700.

You'll have to fly pretty high to escape the terrain-caused turbulence. My airplane won't fly that high, but I've owned turbo'd airplanes (in partnership) that would. If you can get up to 18,000', you're likely to find it pretty smooth--but not guaranteed.

Good luck!

Cary

Thanks guys.

That vans site sure beat the home made options to death. I ended up getting the skyox system. Not sure how far above 15k the 180 will get but I guess we will see!

On long hot runs I learned to use the Density Altitude function of the
DAVTRON - DVT M655-2 to start my Oxygen feed at a Density Alt. of 10K.

Tested several methods and for long runs of 4 hours or more this proved to get me there in the best body and brain condition. Usually on about a 6 hour total flight across the Sierras and high desert country.

You lean the engine according to Density Alt. so I figured I should do something similar for my body- blood- and Brain engine.


Above all
Stay Safe

Chris C

wannabe wrote:On long hot runs I learned to use the Density Altitude function of the
DAVTRON - DVT M655-2 to start my Oxygen feed at a Density Alt. of 10K.

Tested several methods and for long runs of 4 hours or more this proved to get me there in the best body and brain condition. Usually on about a 6 hour total flight across the Sierras and high desert country.

You lean the engine according to Density Alt. so I figured I should do something similar for my body- blood- and Brain engine.


Above all
Stay Safe

Chris C

I've been too lazy to calculate DA for oxygen use, so I take the altimeter altitude and then set the flow meter to 2000' above that. Works really well, because it keeps my pulse-ox in the range of 90 bpm and 90%, as long as I remember to breathe through my nose.

Cary

Have used OX a lot, just a question??
Is scuba tank Ox usable in a aircraft situation?
Thanks
Just wondering the difference?

With the help of a small pulse oximeter, I keep my O2 sats above 90. I highly recommend the pulse oximeter. I'm in good shape, never smoked etc. etc., but I need a lot more oxygen and oxygen at lower altitudes than the Aerox guidelines recommend for the typical person. A pulse oximeter takes the guesswork out of the equation. FWIW, I asked the question about density altitude of some docs and they all told me that DA is irrelevant because air heats in our bodies to the same temperature/density by the time it reaches our lungs, regardless of the temp outside. About "scuba tank ox," I'm not familiar with such a thing. I thought SCUBA was just compressed air, not pure oxygen, which is what you need up high.

CAVU

M6RV6 wrote:Have used OX a lot, just a question??
Is scuba tank Ox usable in a aircraft situation?
Thanks
Just wondering the difference?

These days, there is no difference between "scuba" O2, "medical" O2, "aviation" O2, and even "welding" O2. They all use the same technology and process. Lots of discussion about this over on the BeechTalk forums, with subject matter experts chiming in. All seem to agree. Articles in the trade rags seem to substantiate that view.

JP256 wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:Have used OX a lot, just a question??
Is scuba tank Ox usable in a aircraft situation?
Thanks
Just wondering the difference?

These days, there is no difference between "scuba" O2, "medical" O2, "aviation" O2, and even "welding" O2. They all use the same technology and process. Lots of discussion about this over on the BeechTalk forums, with subject matter experts chiming in. All seem to agree. Articles in the trade rags seem to substantiate that view.

Are you sure? We've always been told that medical O2 has moisture in it and Aviation O2 is completely dry so it can't freeze up lins at altitude.

CAVU wrote:FWIW, I asked the question about density altitude of some docs and they all told me that DA is irrelevant because air heats in our bodies to the same temperature/density by the time it reaches our lungs, regardless of the temp outside.

Correct. DA is just pressure altitude corrected for non-standard temperature. By the time inhaled air passes your upper airway, it is mostly normalized to body temperature. The remaining delta is easily eliminated as it's pulled into your lungs and split between alveoli. DA adjustment matters to airplanes which fully experience the air as it comes, but your body primarily just cares about ambient air pressure. It also stands to reason that your body does experience DA, it's just always adjusted to 98.5F so we don't think about it.

Here in Denver we routinely get DA's above 10k on hot summer afternoons, MSL in town is 5-6k typically. If DA mattered to human physiology, we'd have flat-landers getting hypoxic and passing out just going for coffee. Some do anyway but that has more to do with the brownie additives.

Regarding O2 quality, systems, etc AOPA has a good article:
https://www.aopa.org/training-and-safet ... n-aviation

The section on manufacturing explains differences in intended O2 use. TL;DR version: It all comes from the same place, but medical and aviation O2 go through validation processes to ensure the safety of the person using it. 135 ops require actual aviation O2, but part 91 can use whatever you like. So, if your local welding shop can refill the tank for half of what the FBO charges, you are perfectly legal (and quite likely perfectly safe) to do so, just know that lack of moisture is an assumption and not guaranteed.

You won’t hardly find a glider without one of these systems in them. I’ve got a single place in the glider and a 2 place in the 180. With a 13 cu’ aluminum bottle I can get 10-12 hours easy at 12k-17999. It adjusts automatically and pulses O2 only when you inhale.

http://www.mhoxygen.com/

Is scuba tank Ox usable in a aircraft situation?

There is no such thing as "scuba tank oxygen", because breathing pure oxygen at depths deeper than 24 feet is fatal in a very unpleasant way (google "oxygen neurological toxicity" for the details). Scuba tanks have normal compressed air or enriched air with 32% or 36% oxygen, or tri-mix for very deep dives. Way back in history when I was in welding class welding oxygen cylinders were marked as usable for breathing in emergencies only, for up to 6 hours, because they were not as pure as "medical" oxygen, and cost less. Now it all comes from the same tank at the same price.

Medical, Welding, an Aviation oxygen are manufactured on the same equipment. There is no difference. If you get welding O2 (cheaper), don't tell them what you are using it for.

A1Skinner wrote:

JP256 wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:Have used OX a lot, just a question??
Is scuba tank Ox usable in a aircraft situation?
Thanks
Just wondering the difference?

These days, there is no difference between "scuba" O2, "medical" O2, "aviation" O2, and even "welding" O2. They all use the same technology and process. Lots of discussion about this over on the BeechTalk forums, with subject matter experts chiming in. All seem to agree. Articles in the trade rags seem to substantiate that view.

Are you sure? We've always been told that medical O2 has moisture in it and Aviation O2 is completely dry so it can't freeze up lins at altitude.

Yeah, I'm sure enough that I put my money where my mouth is when flying a turbo-normalized Rockwell Commander 114 at 16,500 and 17,500 feet. Got the oxygen tank filled at the local welding supply house for a few bucks, versus paying almost $50 the one time I was "out of gas" (O2) away from home on a cross-country. No difference at all, other than the higher price!

When my father was using "medical O2" for his COPD, they had to add moisture to it... There was a little cup-thing that you filled with water, and the O2 bubbled up through it.

JP256 wrote:

A1Skinner wrote:

JP256 wrote:

M6RV6 wrote:Have used OX a lot, just a question??
Is scuba tank Ox usable in a aircraft situation?
Thanks
Just wondering the difference?

These days, there is no difference between "scuba" O2, "medical" O2, "aviation" O2, and even "welding" O2. They all use the same technology and process. Lots of discussion about this over on the BeechTalk forums, with subject matter experts chiming in. All seem to agree. Articles in the trade rags seem to substantiate that view.

Are you sure? We've always been told that medical O2 has moisture in it and Aviation O2 is completely dry so it can't freeze up lins at altitude.

Yeah, I'm sure enough that I put my money where my mouth is when flying a turbo-normalized Rockwell Commander 114 at 16,500 and 17,500 feet. Got the oxygen tank filled at the local welding supply house for a few bucks, versus paying almost $50 the one time I was "out of gas" (O2) away from home on a cross-country. No difference at all, other than the higher price!

When my father was using "medical O2" for his COPD, they had to add moisture to it... There was a little cup-thing that you filled with water, and the O2 bubbled up through it.

Awesome. That's great to know. School teaches things that aren't always right...

I guess my question is is scuba tank air usable?
I have a compressor that I can fill tanks with??
It will just be compressed air but being illiterate on the subject was trying to find out whether it is usable.
I'm getting old so that 10'000 ft seems to affect the oximeter!!
Thanks for any more answers or places to go look
GT

M6RV6 wrote:I guess my question is is scuba tank air usable?
I have a compressor that I can fill tanks with??
It will just be compressed air but being illiterate on the subject was trying to find out whether it is usable.
I'm getting old so that 10'000 ft seems to affect the oximeter!!
Thanks for any more answers or places to go look
GT

I woul say no George. It would have a bit more oxygen then what's up there, but you would need straight 02 to do have the right affect.

DO NOT use scuba tank air!!!! Scuba tanks do not have increased oxygen concentrations. I am an Emergency Medicine Doctor and can tell you this is a bad Idea.

The issue for oxygen deprivation at altitude is about partial pressures. There is not enough pressure to push the oxygen across the lungs to keep the oxygen concentrations in the blood at a normal level. That is why big airplanes "pressurize" the airplane, there is no increase in oxygen concentrations on those aircraft!

In general aviation when we can not pressurize the cabin, we take the second best option and just over concentrate the oxygen molecules at the level of the lungs so it continues to maintain the concentration in the blood, but there is even pressure issues at the cellular level as well, therefore if you go too high you can have all the oxygen you want but you will still suffocate and die, its just on the cellular level in the brain. So all that to say:

NO to the scuba tank Idea, and use that oxygen at altitude. It also makes sense why everyone says make sure you breath through your nose because your not over compensating with the oxygen for the lack of pressure.

If you really want to do an experiment, wear a nasal cannula at a given altitude under standard conditions as you can create at a given volume per minute say 6 LPM, then use a mask and turn the o2 to the same volume per minute, you will feel much better not because of the oxygen flow, but because the mask will inadvertently create an increased partial pressure by closing the system with the mask covering your face.

Its all about pressure guys!!!!!

Its also funny to me that pilots can know so much about how a carburetor works and how it diminishes at altitude ect but we cant seem to correlate the same effect on the human body. Think about that for a while!