robw56 wrote:Obviously a huge threat to the public. How many died in auto accidents in 47 years in PC? Maybe they should consider closing all the roads too.

The worst airplane accidents in Oregon were big iron guys. In 1966 a DC 9 descended below his clearance 18 dead. AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE 50, 18998 TOTAL HOURS, INSTRUMENT RATED. We didn't stop flying.

In 1980 AIRLINE TRANSPORT, AGE 52 27638 TOTAL HOURS, 5517 IN TYPE had a gear problem. The crew flew around Portland until they ran out of fuel. Crashed into the middle of the city. Hit the only lot for a long long ways not built on. Went between 2 apartment building. Only 10 on board died. We kept on flying!

In 1979 NR.KLAMATH FALLS,OR DOUGLAS DC-7C COMMERCIAL, AGE 59, 8200 TOTAL HOURS, 475 IN TYPE, INSTRUMENT RATED.
DEPARTURE POINT INTENDED DESTINATION LAST ENROUTE STOP
REDMOND,OR MEDOFRD,OR KLAMATH FALLS,OR
TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION
COLLIDED WITH: TREES IN FLIGHT: NORMAL CRUISE
PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
PILOT IN COMMAND - IMPROPER IN-FLIGHT DECISIONS OR PLANNING
PILOT IN COMMAND - MISJUDGED ALTITUDE
FIRE AFTER IMPACT
REMARKS- HIT TREES AT CREST OF MOUNTAIN RIDGE ALONG FLIGHT PATH

BUT PACIFIC CITY NEEDS TO CLOSE? I THINK NOT

Rob I think it would be best if you could get local support there in PC and surrounding communities in addition to us pilots. How much support is there in PC?

Glidergeek wrote:Rob I think it would be best if you could get local support there in PC and surrounding communities in addition to us pilots. How much support is there in PC?

Local support, like normal. Businesses like it. The ground bounders could care less.
Hey Russ I am making flyers to take to local businesses. I'll put some where the pilots sign in too.
The flyers will give some back ground and who to contact as well as my contact info. I'm on it bro. I'm going to contact the county commissioners to see if they support the airport. Thanks for the ideas....Rob

robw56 wrote:Obviously a huge threat to the public. How many died in auto accidents in 47 years in PC? Maybe they should consider closing all the roads too.

Wow Robbie I couldn't have said it any better myself, don't I know you from someplace. WHO

QUESTION: what are your thoughts on a catch fence or barrier at the end of a runway? Like 15' high The building across the street has been hit 2X A catch fence or barrier will help keep airplanes from hurting people on the ground. Which in turn will help keep the airport open.

We wouldn't have the $$ for high tech. Thinking like military crash net, those big concrete blocks, a row of power poles. Something like NASCAR uses. There is no money for 10-20 thousand dollar engineer consulting study. If any of you military guys can turn me on to how you do it maybe some pictures. That would be a great help. Obviously something that has give is better.

G'Day

OregonMaule wrote:QUESTION: what are your thoughts on a catch fence or barrier at the end of a runway? Like 15' high The building across the street has been hit 2X A catch fence or barrier will help keep airplanes from hurting people on the ground. Which in turn will help keep the airport open.

We wouldn't have the $$ for high tech. Thinking like military crash net, those big concrete blocks, a row of power poles. Something like NASCAR uses. There is no money for 10-20 thousand dollar engineer consulting study. If any of you military guys can turn me on to how you do it maybe some pictures. That would be a great help. Obviously something that has give is better.

G'Day

I think NHRA addressed this issue after Scott Kalitta was killed at the end of the NJ strip after his throttle stuck.. Those catch fences are pretty durable... Unfortunatly Scott hit the pole that held the net.....

Personally I doubt it is a safety issue. Maybe the state Aviation dept is low on dough and wants/needs to close one of their airports. I wouldn't spend much time or effort coming up with safety measures, I'm sure better minds than yours (no offense, I meant aviation safety professionals) wil have be consulted before any arresting barriers etc are constructed at the PC airport.
Here's an idea.... about 10 years ago, Washington turned over one of it's state airports (Quillayute KUIL, an old WW2 Navy airfield) to the city of Forks. There was little to no money involved in the transaction. Forks has since gotten several FAA and/or state aviation grants to "improve" the airport. Unfortunately IMHO most of it was money wasted (fencing, airport master plan, fuel pumps that they don't keep fuel in), but with the right people on an airport board or committee that doesn't have to be the case. Instead of lobbying the state, if the airport is for sure slated for closure by the state maybe you should be lobbying Pacific City to take over the place. You and other pilots that use the place could volunteer right up front to serve on the airport board. It sounds like the state doesn't spend a whole lot of money out there on maintenance anyways, so in between the state/federal grants & pilot volunteers maybe they wouldn't have to dig too deep in the city coffers.
Don't know about Oregon, but Washington dos a state study on economic impact on the community by local airports & the figures are surprisingly high, even for a little podunk field. You might check into that to use as a carrot with the city fathers.

If you want to write a letter to the governor of Oregon in support for a 2cent avgas/jetfuel tax increase it will help. We need this or some airports will close. It will be the little ones we like! He will NOT sign it unless we pressure him. Snail mail it PLEASE! This is what I wrote. Covers the main issues.

Governor Kitzhaber
Governor's Office
255 Capitol Street NE, Suite 126
Salem, OR  97301

I'm writing to you as a pilot to address a concern shared by many of the pilots in our state. That issue is the safety and continued operation of our general aviation airports. We GA pilots depend on the assurance that an airport is a safe environment. Those airports offer a fuel stop or a safe landing place in the event of emergency. In return, we bring an inflow of cash to the local economy.

Increasingly, the safety of Oregon GA airports is eroding. The Oregon Department of Aviation is simply not able to keep up with the expensive maintenance required. The FAA has increased the community share of airport funding from 5% to 10% creating a huge hardship for small communities in these difficult economic times. Needed fixes get deferred and local governments consider closure of those economically valuable airports.

We pilots urge the governor to approve the service increase proposed by the Department of Aviation. A very small increase in the fuel tax on both jet fuel and aviation gasoline will not only provide the funds to make up the difference for those communities hit hard by the doubling of their FAA-required contribution to airport funding, but can provide grants to communities to stimulate economic growth associated with those small airports. Economic growth is critical in this state and particularly critical in those small communities served by GA airports. Finally, and most importantly in terms of safety, it will permit the ODA to implement deferred maintenance and maintain that assurance of safely as well as to increase the economic value of the airport. We are willing to pay our share to increase the funding of the ODA and see our airports preserved and maintained. The increase in a fuel tax is not an added burden to all taxpayers, it is our burden as pilots. Thank you for listening to our concerns. We will be following this issue closely.

Sincerely,

hotrod150 wrote:Personally I doubt it is a safety issue. Maybe the state Aviation dept is low on dough and wants/needs to close one of their airports. I wouldn't spend much time or effort coming up with safety measures, I'm sure better minds than yours (no offense, I meant aviation safety professionals) wil have be consulted before any arresting barriers etc are constructed at the PC airport.
Here's an idea.... about 10 years ago, Washington turned over one of it's state airports (Quillayute KUIL, an old WW2 Navy airfield) to the city of Forks. There was little to no money involved in the transaction. Forks has since gotten several FAA and/or state aviation grants to "improve" the airport. Unfortunately IMHO most of it was money wasted (fencing, airport master plan, fuel pumps that they don't keep fuel in), but with the right people on an airport board or committee that doesn't have to be the case. Instead of lobbying the state, if the airport is for sure slated for closure by the state maybe you should be lobbying Pacific City to take over the place. You and other pilots that use the place could volunteer right up front to serve on the airport board. It sounds like the state doesn't spend a whole lot of money out there on maintenance anyways, so in between the state/federal grants & pilot volunteers maybe they wouldn't have to dig too deep in the city coffers.
Don't know about Oregon, but Washington dos a state study on economic impact on the community by local airports & the figures are surprisingly high, even for a little podunk field. You might check into that to use as a carrot with the city fathers.

Hey Eric: when I looked in the eyes of the board members who are pilots I get a sense the were talking straight up. But you could be right. We will make the offer to lease PC for a dollar a year to get the state out of it. PC has no money and I doubt the county does either. I'll ask. Us private pilots could probably do a better job anyway. The problem with PC is it doesn't meet all the new FAA set back and safety rules.

The state says 2000 ops a year. If say 1500 people drop an average of $15.00 in town thats $22,500 that goes round and round the community. Everybody pays income tax on it. Some plane passengers stay in hotels and pay the lodging tax. It is a big deal.

The safety aspect is big too. Emergency landing access.

I'm from the America that says get out of my way and I will make it work.

Interesting to note the Oregon State Aviation Board #1 Priority on their Strategic Initives List:

Strategic Initiatives 2008 – 2013 State Aviation Board Review Date: Nov 15, 2007

1. Protect Airports through Land-Use:
Legislation to strengthen enforcement with Airport Planning Rule (APR); add more public use airports to current list
Assist jurisdictions with attaining compliance with APR, beginning with high-risk jurisdictions
Legislation to require real estate disclosure, land-use activities within Part 77 surfaces

http://www.oregon.gov/aviation/Pages/about_us.aspx

Just a thought on a $.02 a gallon tax on Avgas and Jet.
I can see where the Gov. might not to sign on to that as that is a whole bunch of dollars for the Big Iron!!
If a 737 fuels up in Portland, with 5000 gals of fuel does that not make it a $100 for them and if they do that say 100 times a day that makes for a pretty good shot of $10,000 more a day to fly into Oregon. They might just fuel up somewhere else and it would end up costing Oregon Money to raise it $.02?
Just a thought.
I know nothing of the price of fuel or taxes compared to other places just a comment!!
GT

M6RV6 wrote:Just a thought on a $.02 a gallon tax on Avgas and Jet.
I can see where the Gov. might not to sign on to that as that is a whole bunch of dollars for the Big Iron!!
If a 737 fuels up in Portland, with 5000 gals of fuel does that not make it a $100 for them and if they do that say 100 times a day that makes for a pretty good shot of $10,000 more a day to fly into Oregon. They might just fuel up somewhere else and it would end up costing Oregon Money to raise it $.02?
Just a thought.
I know nothing of the price of fuel or taxes compared to other places just a comment!!
GT

Not to many people more fiscally conservative than me. But when it comes to closing airports I give in. Heck every time I launch the boat or use a park I pay. Never used to be like that. Just the new reality and it sucks! I don't think a jet will pass on fuel in Oregon but the charge will get passed on to consumers, thats why the gov won't sign it. He is to hell with GA, just looking for votes.

G'Day

OM
Hope it all goes ahead as hoped, did not want to put a dash on the spirits!!
Good Luck with the project, If you need a wee bit of seed money for envelopes , stamps or pens let me know.
GT

M6RV6 wrote:Just a thought on a $.02 a gallon tax on Avgas and Jet.
I can see where the Gov. might not to sign on to that as that is a whole bunch of dollars for the Big Iron!!
If a 737 fuels up in Portland, with 5000 gals of fuel does that not make it a $100 for them and if they do that say 100 times a day that makes for a pretty good shot of $10,000 more a day to fly into Oregon. They might just fuel up somewhere else and it would end up costing Oregon Money to raise it $.02?
Just a thought.
I know nothing of the price of fuel or taxes compared to other places just a comment!!
GT

Does that tax cover commercial Big Iron -- like airliners? I bet it doesnt. They only pay about 4c/gallon in fed tax which would make that a HUGE increase. (we pay about 20c in fed tax on 100LL) If it doesn't include the big guys, then It might have a chance.

The whole thing sucks. We had a county supervisor here (KCCR - pretty big GA airport) who was hell-bent on closing the airport, for housing and commercial real estate. Guess who supports his campaigns? It went on for years with every alphabet aviation group and the FAA telling him why he couldn't do it from day 1. He moved on to State Senator.

Show 'em what it means in dollars and votes. Numbers of letters matter and numbers of bodies at the board meetings.
Good Luck with this Rob.

OregonMaule wrote:He is to hell with GA, just looking for votes.

If I recall, the current gov of Oregon is a pilot too. You'd think he would be more pro GA.

I don't know how it is in Oregon but all the aviation registration fees in Washington go to support state airports. Perhaps increasing the annual fee $5.00 (or something like that) and dedicate it to state airports would bring in enough revenue.

Rob- I would also mention Angel Flights and GA's readiness to help in emergencies, i.e. search and rescue for lost children, hunters, hikers, etc. Not to mention the ability to help in natural disasters if roads, bridges, are washed out. I guess we could land on the beach in an emergency?? An airstrip at Pacific City is a Best Option. The combination of tugging on their heart strings and their pocket book might work.

Came to my favorite beach airport to relax for 4-5 hours. Here at the Pelican Pub. So nice!! No smoke. 64* light wind now. Prettty sporty when I landed.

Cheers

Try to upload a pic. Seafood quesadilla. Beer. Smoked teriyaki salmon.

You da man, Rob!!