Halestorm wrote:Commute from Newcastle sux. If you're going to work in South Lake Union just bite the bullet and live in the city. Ballard, Fremont, Wallingford, Magnolia, all beautiful and easy to access for work.

Try to get a north facing office so you can look out the window and watch me operate the otter off the lake! [emoji3]

Is there any single family w/ off-street parking for 2 vehicles in the 2,000-2,500 range there?

Satellite photos show quite a bit with some detached garages even available.

The rental listing is far more depressing -- all multi-family.

Yes, tons. Bring about 800k to 1mil and expect to pay way over asking. Sad but true

Boeing field (BFI?)

I don't think there is any enclosed hangers available at KBFI and you would need a second job to pay for it.

I am not sure what the hanger situation is at KPAE but last I looked there was a waiting list. About 40 minutes North of South Lake Union when the traffic is not solid.

About the same distance is Harvey Field. I think there are some enclosed available our at least covered. Downside is S43 is where fog is born and has a long life. Can't tell you the number of times I have arrived at the top of the ridge at Seattle Hill Road in bright sunshine only to have zero/zero in the Valley for another couple or more hours. If you have an Instrument ticket, it would help. All in all nice field w/ a grass strip. Family owned. You would have to shoot me if told I had to commute from Snohomish to S.L.U.

Live on Vashon Island and take the Ferry and bus to work?

BUT, there is some really nice country to fly in up here. Mountain obscuration just adds spice to life.

TD

Don't rule out going south, Crest Airpark, Auburn, Thun Field or even the west side maybe Bremerton or Apex.

idiar, you need to go over to Seattle on a a work day and see for yourself. If you are used to driving in Boise, Seattle may not be any worse.

Enumclaw has a nice little gravel strip and affordable hangars when they are available...

For Idair and Motoadve,

The flying aspects of the area have been summed up well by others (it's not Idaho, but not bad, with a lot of tamer, but fun options - like some of the outer San Juans). Most of the inputs on the work commute and keeping an airplane in/around Seattle have been spot on too, but I'll add a little detail.

Been living here for more than 25 years. Traffic can be terrible, but there are routes/commutes that haven't gotten any worse over those 25 years. In addition to the near-Ballard neighborhoods listed above, you might want to think about Bryant, Greenlake, Maple Leaf, Northgate and Wedgwood (all in the Northeast part of the city), or Beacon Hill and Columbia City, in the Southeast part of the city. Prices will be high, but not as far out of whack as in the Ballard/Fremont/Wallingford area. All these neighborhoods are almost like little towns -- you can google them for location and see what they're like.

I live in the Northeast part of town (and have lived in the Southeast many years ago), and have quite a few neighbors and friends that work in South Lake Union. The last 2 miles to the job are a bear (according to them.) Many bicycle (it's close enough). Some take the bus, some drive. That said, that whole SLU neighborhood can gridlock during commute hours. A light rail line is being extended up the Northeast way, so there may be some commuting options when that opens.

As far as flying and where to keep your airplane: I've rented/based my airplanes at Crest, RNT, BFI, and PAE. From northeast Seattle, you'd be looking at an average 1.5 hr drive to Crest, and 45-60 min drive to RNT (occasionally it'll be quicker, but you can't count on it), 25-30 minutes to PAE, and, if you can use HOV lanes, 15-20 minutes to BFI. That last surprised me, but that's what I've seen over the last few years while instructing at a club in BFI's northeast parking. Somehow the highway on-ramps / offramps manage to dump you off almost right at the access gate for this corner of the airport. Lucky.

I currently pay $295/month for an enclosed hangar at PAE, was paying $215/month at Crest till last fall. Don't know the hangar wait list length at either. I think tiedowns are $55/mo at PAE and $70/mo at BFI. If you're ok keeping the airplane outside, northeast parking at BFI might be a good choice, especially if you end up living in northeast or southeast Seattle.

Living further into the suburbs is always an option. But commutes from outlying areas (North Bend, Covington, Emumclaw) to downtown/South Lake Union HAVE gotten a lot worse in the last years, and this city/area doesn't do infrastructure very well at all. The commutes are likely to get even more intolerable soon, and depending on where you're looking, the vanpool thing (or motorcycle) won't help much in terms of travel time - you'll be sitting in gridlocked traffic with everyone else.

A last comment about what has worked well for my wife and I: when we were commuting against traffic for both airplane flying and jobs, and when we are riding motorcycles (access to HOV lanes makes commutes faster and consistent for some routes), commute times have been reasonable. Commute with traffic, and it's a nightmare. With a little planning, you should do OK.

All that said -- this is a nifty place to live. Lots to do, it's beautiful, and the weather doesn't place as many limitations as you'd think. We wouldn't live anywhere else. But it's pricey.

PM me when/if you come out to look around. If I'm in town, I'd be happy to show you around.

Hope this helps.

--Tony

Thank you Tony. I appreciate the input and will certainly look you up when/if I arrive in town.


A little off topic, but how is the outdoor recreation around Seattle? Does the weather and crowds really put a damper on things, or can you still hunt/fish/jeep/ATV/hike within 1-3 hours on public lands?

I've also noticed camping seems more rare west of the cascades, both tent and RV. Is the hassle of getting away or crossing the range too much or are there other reasons?

My brother lives in Kent and absolutely loves it in the Seattle area. He snowmobiles, camps, goes fishing, scuba diving. Lots to do outdoors. He almost had me convinced to take a job with Boeing and move out there; I just couldn't stomach the increase in cost of living. Heck, I can't stand the thought of moving to Boise because of the increase in people and cost of living.

I worked at the Lazy B (Boeing Field) from 1996 to 1999 and flew my Aeronca L-3 with an A-65 in it. The area is absolutely gorgeous and I loved flying there. And that's where the love ends. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. The traffic was an absolute nightmare. I lived in Renton and the only place I could get a hangar was Puyallup which was 1:15 drive sometimes. Rush hour? Traffic sucked no matter what day or what time. No new hire Boeing engineer could afford to buy a house within a 45min-60min commute which is pretty sad.

I always recommend Seattle/NW for a vacation to my friends, but tell them to never move there. I will never move back. It's really a shame that the overpopulation and politics have ruined such a beautiful area.

At the time, the pinko politics really didn't get to me, but they've gone so far to the left since I moved that it would bother me now.

I didn't notice the Seattle Freeze. Met several local aviators who I pal'd around with and gave me an open invitation to their private strip. My co-workers were also very friendly and social. I still keep in contact with many of them and it's been 20 years.

I did get actual IFR time flying rented 172's even during the winter time. Only took on very light ice twice, but I watched the freeze levels/MEA's closely and did't push things.

Good luck and tell Amazon to consider the Ford Focus Electric over the Leaf!
Dan

TonyG did a good neighborhood summary.

One think to look at is there is a light rail system being installed and like all public transportation in Seattle it goes downtown as well as the "Rapid Ride" bus systems. The Greenlake neighborhood all the way up to Shoreline at the Snohomish/King County border is served by the "E" line. There is a dedicated bus lane morning and afternoon. Not a bad way to commute and the light rail will open up other neighborhoods when it gets finished. The neighborhoods may be all covered over w/ high rise condos when Light Rail is completed but hizzoner the Mayor seems to feel this is an acceptable loss.

East West travel tends to be a problem possibly since the lateral moraines the glaciers left behind run North/South and created some pretty steep hills.

Getting a place in Shoreline and keeping your plane at Pane or Harvey might be a fair solution.

Cheers,

TD

What about Renton?

For now I think it's just going to stay at BOI though. It's cheap ($200). It's also a cheap (compared to rent) commercial flight away and not an entirely bad place to go flying. Rentals are abundant in Seattle in the same make/model, and I could always bring it up during the warmer months and tie it down at boeing field for a fair price. It's been hangared all its life, but I don't think a few months in the better weather will do too much harm.

BOI is reasonably close by air, about 1.5 hours one way. The cost of one month's hangar rent.

Personally I love the Seattle area. I spent 28 years in Idaho, mostly the Boise area, and the last 3 here. Kirkland and early mornings are my solution to traffic. I have worked in at Paine, Boeing Field, and Renton and they are all 25-30 minutes in the early morning (5:30am) and really not that much worse in the prime commuting morning hours (35-40 minutes). Driving home from all of them a between 2:30 and 4:00pm ranges from 45 minutes to 1:15 depending on how many wrecks happened that day. My fiancee works in the south Lake Union area and works normal people hours and her morning commute is about 40 minutes in and 45-50 minutes out (sorry I don't really know the variance on that) (Also, that's taking I-90 because we are cheap.. the 520 (toll) would be 20-30 minutes in the morning). The nice thing about Kirkland is that there are no horrible commutes. It doesn't matter where you are going (unless you get the itch to head to puyallup) it's about the same distance from most things in the Seattle area. It's also very nice here, but that comes with a higher price tag on the housing.

Flying here is awesome too. Even in the winter. Sure you can't count on a day a week out to be flyable for a lowly VFR pilot.. but when you get the itch and you see a hole in the sky, there are some amazing winter days. Moreover, the weather is challenging and makes you a better pilot for it. You are right, you can rent (I do). But the monthly cost difference between the hangars there and the hangars here (Paine probably being your best bet) is about an hour flying or a plane ticket to Boise. So in reality either you fly a lot less, or you spend the money you would be spending to have your plane here to fly rentals or fly to Boise and play around there. There is no getting around the fixed costs being higher here.. then again the higher salaries here more than make up for it IMO.

Happy to answer any questions you might have for someone who has lived in both places.

Kirkland,

Thank you very much for the reply. Specifically in regards to Boise vs Seattle, aviation aside, how does the outdoor recreation compare? Did the political differences between the areas provide any lifestyle challenges? Did the winter weather cause any issues or do you adjust ok?

Bearfood wrote:Personally I love the Seattle area. I spent 28 years in Idaho, mostly the Boise area, and the last 3 here. Kirkland and early mornings are my solution to traffic. I have worked in at Paine, Boeing Field, and Renton and they are all 25-30 minutes in the early morning (5:30am) and really not that much worse in the prime commuting morning hours (35-40 minutes). Driving home from all of them a between 2:30 and 4:00pm ranges from 45 minutes to 1:15 depending on how many wrecks happened that day. My fiancee works in the south Lake Union area and works normal people hours and her morning commute is about 40 minutes in and 45-50 minutes out (sorry I don't really know the variance on that) (Also, that's taking I-90 because we are cheap.. the 520 (toll) would be 20-30 minutes in the morning). The nice thing about Kirkland is that there are no horrible commutes. It doesn't matter where you are going (unless you get the itch to head to puyallup) it's about the same distance from most things in the Seattle area. It's also very nice here, but that comes with a higher price tag on the housing.

Flying here is awesome too. Even in the winter. Sure you can't count on a day a week out to be flyable for a lowly VFR pilot.. but when you get the itch and you see a hole in the sky, there are some amazing winter days. Moreover, the weather is challenging and makes you a better pilot for it. You are right, you can rent (I do). But the monthly cost difference between the hangars there and the hangars here (Paine probably being your best bet) is about an hour flying or a plane ticket to Boise. So in reality either you fly a lot less, or you spend the money you would be spending to have your plane here to fly rentals or fly to Boise and play around there. There is no getting around the fixed costs being higher here.. then again the higher salaries here more than make up for it IMO.

Happy to answer any questions you might have for someone who has lived in both places.

Idair-

I will give you my perspective on your questions for Kirkland..

Outdoor stuff... Awesome hiking, mountian biking is some of the best.. There seems to be plenty of car camping within 1-2 hrs drive but you won't be alone unless you drive 4-5 hours. I am not a hunter, but all my friends that hunt go to the east side to do there hunting. 3-5 hours drive time to some of their favorite spots in the state. The others go to ID or MT. As for ATV stuff.. I am not sure..

Politics... I don't really notice that it changes life much.. There are places you can go to hang around with right wingers and places you can go for the left wingers. I notice the biggest difference is in the news/media. There is a lot of time and money spent talking about things that I never dreamt were important. I learned quickly to keep my opinions and viewpoints to myself until I know the crowd I am in.. The viewpoints here range wildly and skin seems thinner.

Weather... It has not affected me really.. I have only had 3 or 4 times when I have wondered if it would stop raining, but I generally keep busy rain or shine. It has affected my wife though.. We found that if we wanted to see the sun we could get in the car and take a 2 hr drive to Roslyn or Ellensburg for lunch and get our vitamin D.

Other notes...

Someone suggested finding a place to live in Shoreline and parking your plane at KPAE.. I would second that based on what I know about your situation.. Kirkland would be nice too.. I keep suggesting KPAE because I found that the difference in 100LL price can effect the equation. I fly a lot thought.. I think King county's fuel is $1.50/ gal more.

As for KRNT... Their hangar wait list is about 7 years. I think my outdoor tie down was $100/mo. It is not a bad spot, but I noticed that the GA scene at KPAE was much more active and I liked that. There are lots of hangars there.. There is probably a wait list, but you could find someone to sublet from if you poke around. Fuel is generally $0.75/gal more at KRNT. For me that equates to $100/mo. That is why I prefer KPAE.

Seattle is a great city.. It will be different than Boise.. Some things will be better some will be worse and lost will just be different. PM me if you would like to chat more.

I think Hsivany summed it up quite well.

There is a lot of outdoor recreation here, there are just less months that you can count on a clear sunny day for that recreation. There is also a fee for using the outdoors which can be attributed to your politics question. Actually my mind cringes trying to figure out their stupid fee structure. this link: http://www.wta.org/hiking-info/passes/passes-and-permit-info will get you started. I bothers me to have to pay to get away from it all, but they do a good job at keeping up their trails and facilities. It's the "outdoors for city folk". There are wilderness areas nearby. I have not gotten into it yet, but the Alpine Lakes wilderness area looks beautiful and I assume will work when I can take the "improved camping" any longer. It's no Frank Church, but that's what airplanes are for.

More on outdoor recreation. In the spring, fall, and winter I don't say that Seattle has a lot of "rainy days", I say it has a lot of days where it rains. The subtle difference is that on the majority of those days there is also sunshine as well. So as long as it's not pouring and you're prepared for a little light rain that may come and go, the rest of the months open up widely for outdoor activity. That being said, my first November here it poured for a month strait.. no breaks.. downpour. I began to wonder if I had made a terrible mistake. Winter time is the most likely to have blocks of time where the rain pours, but that first November was by far the worst I have experienced.

I had no trouble adjusting, but my eyes became more sensitive. You get used to less sun, so when the sun peaks out it's like the light of god.. I bought my fiancé a "happy light" which she uses daily and hasn't had any seasonal depression issues.

Politics. Here? ok fine. I don't like them here, but as Hsivany said, they are on the radio and don't usually force themselves on you. And you will likely naturally fall into a group that is like minded. They are MUCH more diverse here. And honestly, it's good for me to listen to other views from real people I know and respect. I do feel bad for everyone outside of King County though that basically get their rules handed down to them. Prices here are a direct result of the politics. You make better money.. you spend better money. That's why I'll retire in Idaho.

I moved to NW Washington from sunny (and crowded) southern Calif 23 years ago, and I love it here. Yeah, the weather is often wet & usually unpredictable, but I will say that not being able to count on it always being nice makes you appreciate it more when it is. FWIW Sequim & the San Juans & to a lesser degree Port Tpwnsend are in the rain shadow of the Olympics, so we get less precip than say Seattle and way less than Forks. Rain shadow doesn't eliminate the clouds however.

As far as politics, I see another "Shell No" protest is going on today in Portland. People are suspending themselves (and a big drape) from a bridge across the Willamette River, to prevent a Shell Oil ship of some sort from leaving Portland on the way to an off-shore drilling site in Alaska. Just to show you how goofy politics are, prominently featured on this morning's TV news coverage of the event was a sign that read "oil free world".....propped up against a kayak made from petroleum-based plastic.

https://www.backcountrypilot.org/images ... 43fae3.jpg
Just 30 min from Seattle...

Yeah, we have lots of hippie liberal urban hipster wannabe lumberjacks with brand new flannel and waxed coifs here in Portland, and I'm sure there are plenty in Seattle. We also have conservative redneck tactical vest-wearing William F. Buckley acolytes in F-350s with brand new spit-shined rustlers that have never seen dirt. The majority of people are somewhere in the middle and just happy to connect around hobbies or interests like flying. Don't get too hung up on the politics of region. I'd say it's more a contrast in inner city vs rural, and all bets are off for the suburbs. With my diverse politics, anyone could find a reason to dislike what I think, so I tend to avoid those conversations and focus on fun stuff. I'd live in Idaho or Montana in a heartbeat and I enjoy living here.

The only way to get a sense for whether you'll like a place is to visit a few times. As someone else said, camping/adventuring in the western Cascades is hugely popular and your problem will be getting away from people rather, not finding others who share those pasttimes.