Curious whether others feel similarly regarding passengers...

I enjoy giving friends and airport acquaintances rides. What's nice--polite and courteous in my humble opinion--is after the ride when a passenger gets out and says, "Can I please contribute some money for gas?" Unless it is a pre-arranged multi-stop trip, I always thank them but decline. Their kind, courteous gesture though leaves a lasting impression of gratitude. Similarly, I find it refreshing when a passenger offers to help clean off bugs, clean the windshield and assist with general post-flight tasks.

On the flip side, nothing leaves me more disappointed than when I find myself cleaning off bugs while the passenger wanders around the hangar, or checks messages on their phone or does anything but notice the obvious (??) that perhaps they could help with something. Some of us may not want a passenger cleaning up the plane—but at least they could be attentive, courteous and offer!

Fueling is another bit of a pet peeve (guess I’m just old fashioned). Isn’t it nice when a passenger, or fellow pilot of another plane waiting to fuel, holds the fuel hose while you climb the ladder—and grabs the fuel line when you’re done—so you don’t have to juggle the fuel line while descending the ladder? Ok, <g>, I know—you low wing pilots are going, “Huh?”

It seems like the little gestures in life can make all the difference between an average experience and a refreshingly rewarding day.

Might be just me, but I never expect anything in return for giving a ride to a non pilot. Just as I wouldn't expect gas money for giving someone a ride in a classic car.

Even if it was a DC-3, non pilots would have no way of knowing that a quick flight can still burn a sizable amount of fuel. Also, the fueling routine for an airplane is completely foreign to a non pilot. As soon as they see the grounding wire get attached, most people immediately realize they're out of their element and might be reluctant to even offer help.

Most people view cars as an appliance - simply a tool to get from point A to point B. They'll probably view an airplane in the same light, and to expect them to see the airplane as we do - as our pride and joy - probably isn't fair. They just don't understand anymore than I understand a stamp collector.

This isn't to say that I don't appreciate a gesture or offer to help, but ike I teach my kids, if you always expect recognition for doing something good, it's going to be a frustrating life. If you do it because it makes you feel good, or because it's simply the right thing to do, you'll always be happy in the end.

I choose to be happy.

In my limited flying experience, I've realized that fellow pilots (while acting as passengers) almost always know how they can be of help without getting in the way, and normally do some of the mundane tasks that have to be done but that the PIC doesn't need to do himself even if it's just managing maps, tuning the radio to the enxt frequency or getting the cockpit in order while I'm doing my preflight.

I've also realized that non-pilots are so out of their element that they are almost scared to touch anything that they've not been given permission to, which overall is a very safe thing haha. When I take my grandfather flying (still an able-bodied guy, has some flight training but never a license), he always says "let me know if I can help, otherwise I'm going to stay out of your way" which I think is great.

Like you said though, it is very nice when someone offers to help with gas. I never take them up on it unless that flight is only happening because they asked explicitly or a few other varying circumstances. It's sort of like taking someone on a date. I like it when a woman offers to pay, but I rarely if ever take them up on it if it's actually a date.

Overall in flying (and life in general), I've just decided to keep my expectations low so I'm always flattered/impressed by people

-Asa

Another pilot friend also advised, "Expect nothing and then you'll be surprised."

My overall point of posting this is that I believe people in general have lost (forgotten, maybe never even learned) basic common courtesy. I'm not talking about Young-Eagle rides; I'm talking about friends & acquaintances (e.g. neighbors). I don't need to be "stroked." I was brought up to always say "Thank you," to always offer to lend a hand, et cetera.

To "Expect nothing" is to lower myself to the lowest common denominator. Somehow, I find that concept flawed.

Pre-flight/fueling is my zen time when I clear my head of whatever life has thrown at me that day and switch over to pilot mode. I appreciate the gesture, but get irritated when someone follows me around asking "what can I do? what can I do". Best to give them a job that keeps them out of the way and makes them feel useful. If possible I like everything ready to go before the passenger shows up. Flying with another pilot is a different story, it is nice when you can work as a team...just have to be careful you don't miss something because you thought the other guy took care of it.

Sharing expenses depends on the circumstances. If I invite someone on a flight, I don't expect them to pitch in. I like it when someone offers to share expenses in the 182, but I never have the heart to tell them how much it really costs.

I hope I'm not offending anyone by posting. I've been trying to hold back a bit on sharing.

I am like a drug dealer. The first ride is free. After that you are going to split the cost. I don't have any friends who are so intellectually challenged they don't offer gas help or lunch. Probably half the time I say no thank you and buy them lunch. It just depends how fat my wallet is that particular day. I like to share the joy of flight.

Being a fireMan for 30+ years I can handle a hose and ladder with no help. But I love it when friends do help. My really good buds get told, hey you lazy POS, get to work and drag that hose over here and wash the window. All in fun of course. That's just the way we talk to each other.

Remember the bumper sticker from the 70s? Ass Gas or Grass, nobody rides for free.

Cheers...Rob

CFOT wrote:....Sharing expenses depends on the circumstances. If I invite someone on a flight, I don't expect them to pitch in. I like it when someone offers to share expenses in the 182, but I never have the heart to tell them how much it really costs.

I don't usually accept gas money from someone who I invited along, although I do appreciate it if they pay for lunch if that's what we're doing. I took a young dude who worked at the airport café on a pretty good local flight a couple years ago- flew over his school, his house, his GF's house, etc. Got back, and he asked if I wanted some gas money, and offered me a five-spot. Just told him "no thanks"-- like CFOT said, I didn't have the heart to tell him we'd just burned up about $30 worth of avgas. Good on him for offering though.

I love the "friends" who sound like this...

"Hey, can you fly me up to Lake Waterworld next weekend? I'll help pay for gas."

I suppose, I got nothing going. It's about a two hour flight from here. I can drop you off up there.

"Oh no, it's for the weekend. Friday after work, and home Sunday."

Well. OK, but where do I stay while you're there?

"You stay??? No, just drop me off, and come get me Sunday."

OK. (I do the math at 8 hours for two round trips at 10 gph at $5.00 per gallon. $400)
Yeah, that's just shy of $400 in gas.

"What!!!!!?????!!!! $400!!!!! Are you f**king kidding me? That's bullshit!" "$400 just to fly me for two hours????" "I can drive up there in the Family Truckster for $20." I can fly from here to Podunk on Southwest for $89." "Bullshit Man!"

Well... That's just what it would cost in gas to fly the two round trips. That's not even considering insurance, maintenance, property taxes, hanger, and the other expenses.

Then the eyes glaze over, totally unclear on the concept. Hopefully they never ask me again. If I'm going somewhere and got a seat open, friends always ride for nothing. They might buy me lots of beers and a steak at the end of the day, and take care of the lodging, but my airplane bills are mine alone.

Gump

GumpAir wrote:"What!!!!!?????!!!! $400!!!!! Are you f**king kidding me? That's bullshit!" "$400 just to fly me for two hours????" "I can drive up there in the Family Truckster for $20." I can fly from here to Podunk on Southwest for $89." "Bullshit Man!"

Yup. And almost no one does the math on the car right. That side of the equation isn't just gas either. There is a reason the IRS reimbursement rate is 54 cents a mile and it isn't because cars drink that much gas!

Two hour flight would be about 200 miles. Round trip that would be $200 by car if he included gas, wear and tear, insurance, etc...

So, yeah, screw that hypothetical guy!

I would certainly be disappointed if I gave up my Saturday morning to take a friend/acquaintance flying and they thanked my by staring at their iPhone while I pushed the airplane into the hangar, washed off bugs, and went about the other post-flight chores. I don't expect gas money or a trained ground crew from my passenger, but evidence of gratitude and respect for the excitement that I have for flying is a must. To be fair, I don't evangelize aviation as much as I should by offering rides to folks who haven't first shown an serious interest in clattering around the skies in a 70 year-old airplane, so my passengers have already proven their enthusiasm and are primed to pick up the breakfast bill in Greeley.

I know the type Gump.

They are the same ones that always wanted to go waterskiing but never chipped in for gas or helped clean up the boat. They usually are polite and say they have somewhere to be and thanks followed with "gota go" as they leave the rest of us doing the dirty work. I suspect they do have an idea of what actual costs are and they are playing stupid. I've been down that road, I got the t-shirt and I don't need another one. The friends the chipped in for gas and brought an occasional six pack or bunch of sandwiches were always welcome and had an open invitation.

An few of the non flying public in my area seem to want to get their kid a ride in the little red biplane. It takes a lot of nerve for a stranger to come up and ask for a ride, but they're out there. Like cockroaches sometimes. Being head down and reaching into the small and deep front cockpit of a Pitts while trying to clean up vomit from below the seat isn't going to happen in my world. No way.

Anyone that "asks" me to go flying rarely if ever get to go. I'll be nice, but I never seem to find the opportunity for them to go. If I extend an invitation for someone to come flying with me, it's on my dime and, knock on wood, has always been enjoyable.

As for another airplane owner asking, that's a different story. I'm generally happy to swap some time in each other's airplane. If a pilot doesn't have an airplane they generally start out the request with "If I buy the fuel?".
I can't think of ever turning that offer down.

Rich

Passenger Etiquette? Really??? LMAO!!!

Unless I'm ride hauling for tips, fame and glory, I usually don't give a scratch.

I'm still not taking people for rides in an airplane yet but I can definitely relate from a few thousand hours driving a ski/wakeboard/surf boat.

People that own boats get it, and almost always offer to pay. Some show up with gas. I've always had friends that help winterize and summerize the boat, not to mention oil changes and cleanings.

That said, I figure if I invite them I'm not expecting them to share in the cost. And I got rid of the 'gotta go' friends a long time ago, everybody pulls their weight or they just don't last. Lazy is one of my least favourite traits.

The only time I can remember asking a non pilot friend to chip in was when he asked me if I could take him and his son up, and I had to rent an airplane to do it. I told him up front what he could expect it to cost, he said "fine", and we did it, shared the rental half and half.

In my airplane, I take friends for rides every so often. If I ask them, I don't expect them to pay--I'd be going up anyway--and I'll most likely turn them down if they offer. If they offer lunch, I don't turn that down. If they ask me, then I tell them that I can't charge, but there's always lunch or dinner. One of the "funner" ones recently was taking a friend and his 2 grandkids up, and letting the grandkids each fly the airplane--got a great dinner out of that one!

If we're actually going someplace, not just for a ride around the area, then I tell them upfront that we need to share the gas costs, and I give them an approximation of what it will be per hour and how many hours we can expect it to take. For instance, I've taken 3 different guys to OSH in the last few years, and each of them paid their share of the gas costs--and 2 of them also bought my meals most of the time at OSH. The other guy is a great friend, but a bit of a tightwad.

Cary

There are a lot of good people that just don't know better these days. Courtesy and manners must have a new acceptable standard. I've conditioned myself to getting used to it so I don't suffer from so much disappointment in life. It helps keep me from being consumed by negativity.

The phone thing: a lot of folks (of varying ages, not just the youth) can't seem to ignore a text, call, update or notification when they should be paying attention to something or someone else. This zombie like behavior is everywhere and while these folks don't probably intend or even know that they are holding up the rest of the world by not focusing on something like walking or driving a car or participating in a face to face conversation, it is rude, but apparently the new accepted behavior in place of courtesy and safety.

There is a tendency for the non flying folks to believe that to own and fly a plane, you must also be independently wealthy and a philanthropist. They don't know that I had to drive a shit brown volvo 240 for 15 years so I could buy the plane(s) and still afford food, clothes and shoes for my family.

All that said: I think it's appropriate to facilitate someone's interest in aviation if you can afford to.

I figure that the total costs for me operating the husky is $200/ hr and $250/hr for the 185. I never ask for any money and politely refuse if they offer and say, "no one has paid for gas and you aren't going to be the first."

However, I don't fly people who treat me like a commercial operator.

As for helping me with the plane, I want passengers to stay away from the plane because they will unknowingly cause problems by pushing or pulling on things they probably shouldn't be touching. I'm happy to take care of my plane and generally send them on their way before using the power tow to move the plane back into the hangar.

I find most passengers don't know whats going on and don't want to mess anything up.

Usually I try to give them something to do thats simple, like push the plane into hangar while I guide it in, etc.

I enjoy flying wherever so I usually don't worry too much about cost. If they want to throw in gas money or buy a meal, thats fine with me. I don't tell them what it costs. I once spent 4.5 hrs picking up friends and bringing them home, and they wanted to what it had cost ($100 per hour, it was a rental). I told them it cost enough, and buying lunch would be fine.

obxbushpilot wrote:There are a lot of good people that just don't know better these days. Courtesy and manners must have a new acceptable standard. ...The phone thing: a lot of folks (of varying ages, not just the youth) can't seem to ignore a text, call, update or notification when they should be paying attention to something or someone else....while these folks don't probably intend or even know that they are holding up the rest of the world by not focusing on something like walking or driving a car or participating in a face to face conversation, it is rude, but apparently the new accepted behavior in place of courtesy and safety......

Good example: I was at the grocery store recently when I saw a young (29 year old) gal I know at the self-serve checkout station. She'd been there for several minutes even though all she was buying was a sodapop, too busy with a conversation on her cellphone to do her thing and move along. I could see that people in the line were getting pissed off, so I went up and paid the machine for her & escorted her along out of the way. She didn't seem to realize (or care) that she was holding up the whole show. She is otherwise a nice young lady, but I think Oxbushpilot is right that this sort of rude thoughtless inconsiderate behavior is the new norm.

Ok bitc$&@ want to fly? Gas it up and clean the wind screen.

Now buy me food. My boy and his buddy. Good guys!

Fueling in a hangar? Tisk tisk...


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