I am starting to carry these with me. I have seen some strips to drop into and I want to be ready. I figured someone here might want to do the same.

Pilot History/Liability Release

Name: _____________________________________ Date of Birth: ____________________
Address: _______________________________ City: __________________ State: __ Zip: _____
Phone:_____________Fax:____________________Email:________________________________
Occupation: ___________________________________Date you began flight training: ________
Date you received license: ______________________________Certificate # ________________________
Date & class of last FAA Medical: __________________Date of Last Biannual Flight Review:____________________

TYPE OF LICENSE:

RATINGS: ___________________________________________________________________

FLYING EXPERIENCE DATA
Total Time ____hours Total Hours Past Year _______hours Total Hours Last 90 Days _____hours

AIRCRAFT TO BE USED
Make & Model___________________________________Tail Number______________________

Owner of Aircraft:___________________________________________________

If any of the following answers are “yes” please give full details.

1.Have you ever been penalized, disciplined or fined for violation of FAR’s? _____________________
2.Have you ever been arrested for any reason? ________________________
3.Have you been cited for DUII? ____________________________
4.Have you ever been treated for substance abuse? ____________________________

I ____________________________________________ affirm that the statements in the Liability Release are true, are made in good faith, and no information has been withheld or suppressed.

IN CONSIDERATION OF my flight(s), I, the undersigned, agree, intending to be legally bound hereby, that as the pilot of my flight(s) and the landowners on which my flight(s) will takeoff and/or land (collectively, with their respective successors, heirs, assigns and insurance companies, all of the foregoing are hereinafter referred to as the “Released Parties”), shall not be liable for my death or injury to my person, or for any loss for damage to my property, caused in any manner whatsoever, whether attributable to the negligence, intentional act or omission of one or more of the aforesaid Released Parties, or for any other reason, occurring during the time that I am in, entering or alighting from an aircraft piloted by __________________________________________________. I do hereby, for myself and my heirs and assigns, waive any right of action against the Released Parties from any and all causes or claims that I may have against one or more of the Released Parties from the beginning of time until these presents. I further agree not to sue on any such cause or claim. I fully acknowledge and understand that there are dangers and risks associated with my flight(s) which might result in my injury or death, and I voluntarily desire to participate in, and assume the risks of, my flight(s). I the undersigned, accept liability for all accident/incident-related damages and all liability not covered by the attached insurance policy for flight operations at the property owned by:

Name:___________________________________________________________________

Address:_________________________________________________________________

City:____________________________State:_____________Zip Code:______________

Revokable at any time by property owner:



Date:______Signature:______________ ______________________________________


Witnessed in the presence of:

_________________________________________________________________________
Printed Name of Witness

_________________________________________________________________________
Signature of Witness

I am confused? Is this for the protection of a landowner of which you want to land at or what? Whats the purpose and who is trying to be protected?

This is to give the landowner some incentive to say yes when you ask him "can I please land here". It's a lot easier to just say no for fear of law suit.

I am starting to carry these with me. I have seen some strips to drop into and I want to be ready.

Do you drop it onto the strip you want to land onthen wait for someone to wave you in?

I am using a neighbor's CRP field as a grass strip because he felt bad for me having to use the narrow road. He offered it with nothing more. I know all these people well enough that If I gave him this paper I know he would have retracted his offer. Sticking a paper between a man and his word here creates distrust in a man's word as if it wasn't good enough without it. May sound corny but these are not big city lawyer friendly people and I know it would have worked against me. For a farmer/rancher it reads like a legaleze filled contract and obviously involves an unknown third part attorney. They would look at me out the corner of their eye like "Where are you from again?" I would be interested to know how many take you up on it though or if they would have given permission with out it.

The real reason for even posting this point is to bring up the need for getting recreational use for aircraft included within the recreational use laws of the state. I think that is such a great idea.

[quote="OregonMaule" I do hereby, for myself and my heirs and assigns, waive any right of action against the Released Parties from any and all causes or claims that I may have against one or more of the Released Parties from the beginning of time until these presents.][/quote]

I've read that you can't waive something for someone besides yourself? There are some folks around here that are "bagging' for lack of a better term, strips. Just flying in and landing, I guess just to say they have landed there. Don't think he is helping any of our cause with such actions. With regards to a private strip there is no shortcut for knowing someone and feeling confident with their abilities and opinion of the current state of our legal system. Tend to agree with Dirtstrip's post. Of course if they ball it up and kill themselves then you are dealing with family members that you probably don't even know. Legal system is the foundation of a lot of what is wrong in the world these days.

OregonMaule wrote: I do hereby, for myself and my heirs and assigns, waive any right of action against the Released Parties from any and all causes or claims that I may have against one or more of the Released Parties from the beginning of time until these presents. I further agree not to sue on any such cause or claim. I fully acknowledge and understand that there are dangers and risks associated with my flight(s) which might result in my injury or death, and I voluntarily desire to participate in, and assume the risks of, my flight(s). I the undersigned, accept liability for all accident/incident-related damages and all liability not covered by the attached insurance policy for flight operations at the property owned by:

This is good in theory, but you cannot legally waive the rights of a third party ("myself and my heirs and assigns") so it is not worth much. If you die in a accident, your family still retains their rights to suit...same would go for any passengers and / or their families. Furthermore, your insurance policy specifically prevents you from waiving the companies rights of subrogation AND requires you to assist in a subrogation suit which could mean that you just signed up to cover any / all loss, damage, or lawsuit out of your own pocket due to this statement: "I the undersigned, accept liability for all accident/incident-related damages and all liability not covered by the attached insurance policy"

The policy wording is very clear on these matters. Look under the listed sections to find wording similar to the following examples taken from policies from various companies:

Assumed Liability- "We wont cover any liability assumed under a contract or agreement other than an airport contract signed with a governmental body so an airport may be used."

What you must do- "you agree not to voluntarily make any payments or take on any other legal responsibility without our permission. if you do, we may not reimburse you - even if the loss or expense would have been covered by the policy."

Exclusions- "This policy does not apply to liability assumed by the Insured under any contract or hold harmless agreement"

Subrogation- "In the event of ay payment under this policy the company shall be subrogated to all of the Insured's rights of recovery therefor against any person or organization and the Insured shall execute and deliver instruments and papers and do whatever else is necessary to enforce such rights. The Insured shall do nothing after the loss to prejudice such rights."

Duties in the event of a loss- "The Insured shall cooperate with the Company and upon request will assist in making settlements, in the conduct of suits and in enforcing any right of subrogation, contribution or indemnity against any person or organization who may be liable to the Insured because of loss, injury or damage with respect to which insurance is afforded under this policy; and the insured shall attend hearings and trials and assist in securing and giving evidence and obtaining the attendance of witnesses."

lownslow79 wrote:I am confused? Is this for the protection of a landowner of which you want to land at or what? Whats the purpose and who is trying to be protected?

For the land owner so they say it is ok to come back. I won't land a strip that has a X Just because it is on the sectional as private doesn't mean they won't let you use it.

Meat Servo wrote:I've read that you can't waive something for someone besides yourself? There are some folks around here that are "bagging' for lack of a better term, strips. Just flying in and landing, I guess just to say they have landed there. Don't think he is helping any of our cause with such actions. With regards to a private strip there is no shortcut for knowing someone and feeling confident with their abilities and opinion of the current state of our legal system. Tend to agree with Dirtstrip's post. Of course if they ball it up and kill themselves then you are dealing with family members that you probably don't even know. Legal system is the foundation of a lot of what is wrong in the world these days.

You may be right! Several places I have landed the owners are ok. When you ask if they would appreciate being provided a release every one I ask has said yes please.

tcj wrote:

I am starting to carry these with me. I have seen some strips to drop into and I want to be ready.

Do you drop it onto the strip you want to land on then wait for someone to wave you in?

No, I land. If someone is around, I talk and offer the release. If they say don't come back that is fine. I seriously doubt another pilot is going to sue me for landing his strip and asking permission. The local Sheriff will care less if I land some private strip. So I don't see a down side.

lowflybye wrote:
This is good in theory, but you cannot legally waive the rights of a third party ("myself and my heirs and assigns") so it is not worth much. If you die in a accident, your family still retains their rights to suit...same would go for any passengers and / or their families. Furthermore, your insurance policy specifically prevents you from waiving the companies rights of subrogation AND requires you to assist in a subrogation suit which could mean that you just signed up to cover any / all loss, damage, or lawsuit out of your own pocket due to this statement: "I the undersigned, accept liability for all accident/incident-related damages and all liability not covered by the attached insurance policy"

The policy wording is very clear on these matters. Look under the listed sections to find wording similar to the following examples taken from policies from various companies:

Assumed Liability- "We wont cover any liability assumed under a contract or agreement other than an airport contract signed with a governmental body so an airport may be used."

What you must do- "you agree not to voluntarily make any payments or take on any other legal responsibility without our permission. if you do, we may not reimburse you - even if the loss or expense would have been covered by the policy."

Exclusions- "This policy does not apply to liability assumed by the Insured under any contract or hold harmless agreement"

Subrogation- "In the event of ay payment under this policy the company shall be subrogated to all of the Insured's rights of recovery therefor against any person or organization and the Insured shall execute and deliver instruments and papers and do whatever else is necessary to enforce such rights. The Insured shall do nothing after the loss to prejudice such rights."

Duties in the event of a loss- "The Insured shall cooperate with the Company and upon request will assist in making settlements, in the conduct of suits and in enforcing any right of subrogation, contribution or indemnity against any person or organization who may be liable to the Insured because of loss, injury or damage with respect to which insurance is afforded under this policy; and the insured shall attend hearings and trials and assist in securing and giving evidence and obtaining the attendance of witnesses."

So Chris I have a question. If I am landing on a private strip and lets say swerve off the strip and hit a truck. My liability insurance should cover the damage shouldn't it??? Will my insurance company try to sue the land owner for the damage to my plane so they don't have to pay to fix it???

Good day

I can not speak for your family. But my family would never sue anyone if I am KIA. They know that is my wish. I also have provided monetarily for my family so they are not put in a hard ship position of needing to sue to survive.

Good day

OregonMaule wrote:I can not speak for your family. But my family would never sue anyone if I am KIA. They know that is my wish. I also have provided monetarily for my family so they are not put in a hard ship position of needing to sue to survive.

Good day

I have specifically discussed this with my family as well. Probably a 99% thing but it's that 1% that make the rest of us pay dearly. To be honest our strip has some very distinctive risks and anytime I come across one of those attorney ads about getting what you deserve from an insurance company or employer it makes me cringe...

OregonMaule wrote:
So Chris I have a question. If I am landing on a private strip and lets say swerve off the strip and hit a truck. My liability insurance should cover the damage shouldn't it??? Will my insurance company try to sue the land owner for the damage to my plane so they don't have to pay to fix it???

Good day

You have to follow the wording of the policy...it is a contract and there is no disputing it. If you simply lose control then your policy should cover the damage. If you are landing on a piece of ground designated for such use (this could simply mean the the owner agreed to allow you to land in a given area) and an accident happens due to some action (or inaction) of the landowner that could be determined as negligent then the insurance company should cover the loss and may subrogate against the landowner to recover their loss. However, if you signed away their right to do so (your aformentioned form) then they have the right to deny the claim based on the contractual wording of the policy.

Short answer to a lenghty discussion...don't leave it up to the legal system to determine negligence and don't sign any waiver of rights without getting it approved by your insurance company first if you want them to respond in the event of a claim. Your policy is a contract and the conditions are cleary stated.

Waivers mean very little....

....I can still sue you and you can sue me. The folks with the best lawyer will likely win. At the very least one may have to spend a lot of money defending themselves. And by the way....none of us can say what our survivors will do if we are killed and someone smells negligence.

Like others have said...."I've told my family that I would not want them to sue on my behalf." But with a wife, five kids, in-laws, grandchildren, sisters, their husbands . etc. etc. No way in hell to guarentee what anyone of them might do. Especially when some ambulance chasing lawyer comes knocking on the door.....reminding them...."the insurance will pay!" Hummm......

Be safe. Respect private property.

Bob

Meat Servo wrote:

OregonMaule wrote:I can not speak for your family. But my family would never sue anyone if I am KIA. They know that is my wish. I also have provided monetarily for my family so they are not put in a hard ship position of needing to sue to survive.

Good day

I have specifically discussed this with my family as well. Probably a 99% thing but it's that 1% that make the rest of us pay dearly. To be honest our strip has some very distinctive risks and anytime I come across one of those attorney ads about getting what you deserve from an insurance company or employer it makes me cringe...

I am not pointing this personally at either of you or your families... having said that, I have seen more than a few occasions where the recently departed made the same statements and the reality after their passing was completely different. Money talks and a greiving family member listens to ideas they previously would not consider. I have even seen family members filing suit against other family members or the estate. It is not always a question of how well we provided for them in our abscence, sometimes it is more of a "feel better" thing because it was someone elses fault that we were killed and that person should have to suffer as well...hence the saying "it's not about the money".

The most famous example I can think of is the Corey Lidle accident. His widow is still in lawsuits trying to recover money from Cirrus for that one. Corey thought he had provided well for them in the event of his passing, but his life insurance specifically excluded death when operating an aircraft, AND his baseball contract included the same exclusion. She got nothing more than the $1 Million liability payout from the aircraft policy. The rest can be read in the newspapers. The accident was obviously pilot error, yet they named every entity possible in the suit hoping for a settlement or judgement...and may get it from Cirrus.

If / when we perish in an accident take comfort in the fact that most (not all) surviving family will defend to their last breath that we did not make a mistake causing our death...it is alway someone or something elses fault.

z3skybolt wrote: Especially when some ambulance chasing lawyer comes knocking on the door.....reminding them...."the insurance will pay!" Hummm......

Which is usually followed up with the statement "It's not like you are suing anyone personally or taking it out of an individuals pocket and the insurance companies have plenty of money to cover things like this. That's why _______ purchased insurance in the first place so you deserve it."

So this leeds to my next question. Do you guys that have private strips on the sectional or not on the sectional put BIG!!! XXXX on them? If you do not is it not like an open invitation and potential for problems? Just asking.

Good day

The 207 crash at Monument Valley sort of ties in with this. I went there and had to sign a release before I could land. I have signed a handful of releases over the years and Chris brings up a good point about how that interacts with our policies.

Good day

Very true,but at least I have made my thoughts known. This is why aviation will be dead in this country. I gotta quit reading anything insurance/aviation related.

I would urge everyone to log onto the Recreational Aviation Foundation ( theraf.org ) and review the great progress RAF has been making at getting recreational use statutes passed in each state. Look under the "Advocacy" drop down for more info.

I am in NM, and our local backcountry group had an existing statute updated to specifically include flying into private airstrips. The RAF was a great resource for us (plus we had a great guy that had good legislative contacts to help with it). The group in AZ did the same thing this year as well. I believe there are existing statutes in 6 other states (not sure of the exact count) and more efforts underway.

Once passed, you can carry the legislation with you when you visit the private owner and show them that they have legal protection from lawsuits. The truth is that anyone can sue for anything. But somewhere there has to be the prospect of some money flowing before you are going to get a lawyer interested. This way, lawyers will understand they have a huge hill to climb with little prospect of winning.

All of us that love backcountry flying should consider being part of the RAF and supporting their activities. They are doing a great job of advocating with the Forest Service, assisting with recreational use statutes, etc., and generally supporting backcountry flying. Additionally, I would urge you to consider joining with your state organizations to see if you can get recreational use statutes passed where you live.

The truth is that we are only going to see backcountry flying expanded if we work at it and organize.

Regards, Larry

OregonMaule wrote:So this leeds to my next question. Do you guys that have private strips on the sectional or not on the sectional put BIG!!! XXXX on them? If you do not is it not like an open invitation and potential for problems? Just asking.

Good day

Depends what the state laws are. Here in Montana no waivers are needed as the airstrip owner has no liability to start with, per state law. Lots of states have similar laws, check yours.

Most of us have thought about how their family would behave if we did a Figure 9 in an airplane. Although I'm not a lawyer (could'a gone to law school but I wanted to keep my soul), I would suggest that perhaps including a statement in your last will saying that it is to be considered your strongest wish that your family not participate in any lawsuit, and that this wish will is to be read aloud on your behalf in front of the jury in any court proceeding, etc. etc. may have some small effect on it.

For LowFlyBye... if offering some sort of a liability release (like Rob does) is not the right course of action, what is the right course of action to follow if you want to go and land on various strips, off-airport, private property, etc? What kind of document or peace offering would be worthwhile to hand a property owner, or at least offer? At first look, it seems Rob's idea is a lot better than nothing and especially it shows good intentions and responsible thinking by the pilot. If Rob's idea is flawed, then how should a pilot execute a peace offering, or demonstrate his/her good intentions to a landowner?