Not certain how to capture a quote: OregonMaule writes: No, I land. If someone is around, I talk and offer the release. If they say don't come back that is fine. I seriously doubt another pilot is going to sue me for landing his strip and asking permission. The local Sheriff will care less if I land some private strip. So I don't see a down side.

So you land at a private strip on some guys ranch and then ask for permission? If I read that correctly, I would be very careful. We spend a lot of time around here driving to ranches asking for permission prior to landing. Lowrider and I had a situation last year where we landed with permission and the neighbor (adjacent landowner) came running out with a pitch fork....Yeah the Sheriff would probably care less until the land owner says your trespassing, takes down your tail number and sends it to the feds...We had this very case happen...we were not even on his property as said above. We were on private property with permission. We still had to go through the process of explaining, showing we had permission etc.

Be careful...

Just my 2 cents...

AKT

EZFlap wrote:For LowFlyBye... if offering some sort of a liability release (like Rob does) is not the right course of action, what is the right course of action to follow if you want to go and land on various strips, off-airport, private property, etc? What kind of document or peace offering would be worthwhile to hand a property owner, or at least offer? At first look, it seems Rob's idea is a lot better than nothing and especially it shows good intentions and responsible thinking by the pilot. If Rob's idea is flawed, then how should a pilot execute a peace offering, or demonstrate his/her good intentions to a landowner?

That's the million $ question to which I wish I had an answer. Ultimately it comes down to the landowner and their willingness to allow such activity. I have met some who will not even discuss it and I have met other's who don't care about the perceived risks. Thanks to the litigious society that we live in there is always the chance of a lawsuit and risk is always present, but how we handle the risks is what is important. Often times we are our own worst enemy. As my late, great grandmother used to say: "It only takes one aw shit to ruin ten atta-boys". I asked for permission to hunt a piece of property a while back and was turned down...not because of my reputation or relationship with the owner, but because he had let someone else hunt it the year before and they shot his tractor simply because it had the word Deere on it. That ruined any chances for future hunting on his land for everyone else. The same thing happens in the aviation world.

My suggestion...ask permission in this case and not forgiveness. Drive out and meet the owner personally, introduce yourself and ask if he/she would like a ride to see their land from the air. Earn their trust and in doing so their permission. If they don't want you to land on their property or have hesitation then it is a place that you don't want to be landing anyway because you are starting behind the eight ball. If anything ever happens it will be a no win situation...even if it is something you did not do you will most likely be the first suspect blamed.

Just my .02.

Many private airports have noise issues with neighbors. Keeping the number of takeoffs and landings to a minimum may be important to these owners. Every private airport has different issues. I think it is best to call first and get permission to land. Is that not what PRIVATE airport means? You may find that you are not welcome back if you do not get permission first.

Do some states protect the airport owner from liability?

flyer

First, Rob, I like your good intentions, however... Pappy was a judge and I learned to read and understand the scope and consequences of a signed document, and I HATE your document. Blanket statements like those are just time bombs waiting to go off. I have seen it happen in non-aviation scenarios, and there's nothing that makes me think it would be different for landing rights.

My experiences have been similar to dirtstrip, legal documents just make people distrust you. The best thing is to truly befriend them, because human nature says that you look out for your friends and screw everyone else.

If they are your friends, you will let them benefit in some small way from the airplane. Giving them a ride is not the only option. For instance, I know a pilot that flies to Yakima every year during the cherry harvest, and he fills his plane with flats of freshly picked, ripe cherries. He then distributes them to his various friends, who pay for their flat of cherries, but he basically provides the air cargo transportation for free. Then, the fat little cherry lovers get to brag to everyone they know about how they have an air transportation connection and their cherries are far superior to the crappy cherries that the commoners have to eat. Naturally, he has a few farmers with airstrips on his distribution list, and they are always happy to see him whether he's just buzzing their house or plopping down to say hello.

flyer wrote:Many private airports have noise issues with neighbors. Keeping the number of takeoffs and landings to a minimum may be important to these owners. Every private airport has different issues. I think it is best to call first and get permission to land. Is that not what PRIVATE airport means? You may find that you are not welcome back if you do not get permission first.

Do some states protect the airport owner from liability?

flyer

Your probably right Dick. I have never landed on a private strip without 1st getting permission. I have been eyeballing a couple not on the sectional. Farther away than I care to drive so if I just don't drop in I'll probably never know and never go.
We have property and have been ask many times over the years if the local kids can ride dirt bikes. We have let many over the years.
I like the release, it shows good intent and is a starting point if the worst case happens.

Good day

Kevbert just hit the jackpot with the best reasonable answer IMHO. Show the landowner frequent, consistent, and useful upside, and then be a genuine friend to them.

One of the things that might be worth considering is letting the property owner know that they could have a primary (or secondary if they have an airplane themselves) method for medevac, emergency supply, food/water/medicine, ammunition, etc. if the need arises. Airstrip owners probably have an airplane already, but owners of rural property, meadows, smooth hillsides, etc. may be happy to know that Uncle Fred can be airlifted to the doctor when his heart valve leaks, or the doctor brought to him.

Knowing that water/food/medicine and moonshine can be a phone call away could be a big value to someone.

Oregon Maule is in a position to offer his professional experience in areas of fire safety plus whatever else I don't klnow about him. Some of you BCP'ers who are firearms experts might be able to offer your help with the landowner's gunsmithing needs, or maybe you just have access to a better price on ammo (and newsprint with the Ayatollah's picture on it) a hundred miles away. If It were me, I could land and offer assistance with fertilizer management, based on my extensive experience and capability with bullshit

A simple offer to help the landowner take advantage of the better prices as large discount stores (Costco, Sam's Club etc.) might be a huge benefit, because they may be able to save a long drive.

Basically, if the landowner sees you and your airplane as an asset that they can realize a benefit from (like Kevbert's cherries), you have a fair chance of success and a new friend in the process. More importantly, you'd be making a friend for general aviation, which is gonna be getting real important in the future.

So this leeds to my next question. Do you guys that have private strips on the sectional or not on the sectional put BIG!!! XXXX on them? If you do not is it not like an open invitation and potential for problems? Just asking.

If you put an "X" on your own runway and have a mishap while operating on a closed runway are you still covered? I have a 1000' runway, trees at one end, and a low wire at the other (do to zoning it's a well mowed hayfield to be exact) and I am very picky as to who I will allow land. I just don't want someone balling up a plane, or low flying the wrong neighbor to ruin it for me.

Monument Valley is Indian (feathers not ruby in forhead) owned and are a separate nation. Forget legal action.

My strip is not on the charts. It is a hay field just like all the neighbors hay fields. You mean you just drop in un anounced. You say the sheriff will not get involved. What if owner of hay field just parked a tractor in front and behind your plane and said take it apart to haul it out. Then turned in about 100- head of cows into the field. How does a maul stand up to 100 head of cows looking for a place to scratch.

Tim

qmdv wrote:Monument Valley is Indian (feathers not ruby in forhead) owned and are a separate nation. Forget legal action.

My strip is not on the charts. It is a hay field just like all the neighbors hay fields. You mean you just drop in un anounced. You say the sheriff will not get involved. What if owner of hay field just parked a tractor in front and behind your plane and said take it apart to haul it out. Then turned in about 100- head of cows into the field. How does a maul stand up to 100 head of cows looking for a place to scratch.

Tim

I see your point Tim. I fly in and out of 10 or more private grass strips. Everybody has been very welcoming. A few have said they would like a release but never get around to putting one in front of me.
I can't imagine a strip owner being so angry about a brother pilot dropping in to say hi. Then ask permission to land in the future that they would intentionally damage your plane. But I guess there are all types out there.
I guess if I had a strip and really didn't want it used I would X it. I guess that makes to much since.

I am definitely rethinking ever dropping into a private strip. So much for pilots sticking together.

Good day

Swing by any time Rob, my place is your place.

Our strip is rough and bumpy. Half dirt, half weeds, and half grass. It get's "mowed" maybe twice a year and never gets rolled. It's that way to keep the riff raff out, and it works pretty well. Another reason I wanted 31"s, our strip is probably one of the roughest strips I've landed on anywhere.

Some strips are being used without the proper paperword from the county. The neighbors do not care cus it is used just now and then. The county knows about it but is looking the other way tell the complaints come in. Folks just dropping by will increase the noise and then the locals may get upset. I have an elementary school a 1/4 mile to the east of my place and all I need is some dickhead flying low over it and it is over for me

Pilots should stick together and respect other folks property.

By the way, I do not have a strip.

Tim

I know a guy that has a strip close by, if he hears a plane over head he trys to find it.
If it's landing, he heads for the taxiway.....like a kid in a candy store.
Next thing you know you are headed for the fridge for a soda, looking each others planes over and BSing.....good luck getting out of there.

Tim, you need to get a strip!

Terry wrote:I know a guy that has a strip close by, if he hears a plane over head he trys to find it.
If it's landing, he heads for the taxiway.....like a kid in a candy store.
Next thing you know you are headed for the fridge for a soda, looking each others planes over and BSing.....good luck getting out of there.

Seriously, we need more guys like him. What a gem.

OregonMaule wrote:
I am definitely rethinking ever dropping into a private strip. So much for pilots sticking together.

Good day

Don't give up so quick. First, whatever you have been doing seems to have been working, no? Have you really had to talk your way out of that many shotguns?

Second, my IQ is not up in the four digit range like some of the folks here, but even I'm smart enough to be respectful to a guy with your resume'. If someone is that unhappy with you being on their property, you can offer to soothe things over by putting in a good word for them with the local emergency crews. If you're dealing with a property owner who has any sort of common sense at all, that offer should provide them with a clear upside and a potential downside My guess is that the problem will go away, and you simply cross that place off of your list of friendly places to visit.

I come from a pretty strange and crazy place unlike any other, but I've seen firsthand the incredible power of the right resume' or the right personal connections, or professional affiliations. Use the Force wisely, Luke, but use it when you must

flyer wrote:
Do some states protect the airport owner from liability?

flyer

Every state. See here:

http://theraf.org/menu/recreational-use-statutes

Bonanza Man wrote:

flyer wrote:
Do some states protect the airport owner from liability?

flyer

Every state. See here:

http://theraf.org/menu/recreational-use-statutes

Thanks BM

I drove to 3 strips today and ask to land. So far 0 for 3. That may change. Thinking positive here.

Cheers

The 3 owners were probably all good people........just afraid of our law system.
Keep trying! I have a few farmers permission to land in their fields, we'll have to schedule an after harvest off strip fest.

I'm glad I don't live in California if they take offense at an occassional landing on a grass strip !! My strip is grass - 100 x 4200 Ft. All I tell people who show up is : you wreck it , you pay for it ! Don't ask me to pay for it ! There' laws to protect the property owner. If they get really nasty, They are Tresspassing on your property !

All right, one of the three owners I ask yesterday called back and said yes. He also said he liked the release and is going to use it for others.

Good day

EZFlap wrote:Most of us have thought about how their family would behave if we did a Figure 9 in an airplane. Although I'm not a lawyer (could'a gone to law school but I wanted to keep my soul), I would suggest that perhaps including a statement in your last will saying that it is to be considered your strongest wish that your family not participate in any lawsuit, and that this wish will is to be read aloud on your behalf in front of the jury in any court proceeding, etc. etc. may have some small effect on it.

For LowFlyBye... if offering some sort of a liability release (like Rob does) is not the right course of action, what is the right course of action to follow if you want to go and land on various strips, off-airport, private property, etc? What kind of document or peace offering would be worthwhile to hand a property owner, or at least offer? At first look, it seems Rob's idea is a lot better than nothing and especially it shows good intentions and responsible thinking by the pilot. If Rob's idea is flawed, then how should a pilot execute a peace offering, or demonstrate his/her good intentions to a landowner?

If you land....

....on a private strip without first asking permission you are trespassing and abusing a potential priviledge. Pure and simple. IMHO doing such is no different than camping on my property, taking veggies out of my garden, moving into my hangar or sleeping in my guest house unbeknownst to me.

Geez folks. How about respecting private property and showing basic courtesy?

bob