Is it just me or are the PA-18 STC's getting a little pricey? Just bought a 2000lb Wipaire kit for 4k.. paid 3k a few years ago. There isn't much to that. Feel like at some point they are going to reach a price point where they sell less than they would to make up the difference.

One answer... Cost of raw materials... Aluminum has skyrocketed in the last few months... I had to raise the price on our gascolators because of it a couple months back and just got word from my machinist that they will be raising prices on me again after the first of the year due to the material cost... I may have to up my price again sometime next year..

Brian.

That's understandable, I do a lot of work with steel as well and it is a very sensitive market. But I've installed the kit a few times before and I would almost guess the cherrymax rivets cost more than the aluminum for that kit. At least not 1000$ worth..

I'll still pay it but I just assumed they'd be really making their money on the 80k floats...

I will need a gascolator soon!

Inflation has been brutal this year.

It’s not that the STC holders are greedy. Milk and eggs have gone up proportionally as well. Printing heaps of federal reserve notes has consequences that penalize the users of the federal reserve note. We are just getting started with the high inflation.

Brian-StevesAircraft wrote:One answer... Cost of raw materials... Aluminum has skyrocketed in the last few months... I had to raise the price on our gascolators because of it a couple months back and just got word from my machinist that they will be raising prices on me again after the first of the year due to the material cost... I may have to up my price again sometime next year..

Brian.

A bit off topic but...
Brian, I have a steves gascolator on my C180-- a very nicely designed & made unit.
But being tucked into a notch in the firewall up behind the carb airbox,
it is a PITA to get ahold of it to remove it when inspecting the screen.
The bottom of the bowl is knurled but no tool I have fits up in there without scarfing up the bowl.
If the bottom of the bowl incorporated a hex shape, kinda like a spin-on aviation oil filter,
you could just put a socket on it & very easily rotate it on or off.
Just saying....

I guess if I owned an STC (thankfully I don’t) I’d ask myself two questions:

What will people pay?
And
Is there another similar alternative?

The 2000 lb GW kit value is mostly paper. Not many actual parts in that kit.
That said, buy a set of their floats and they’ll throw in the GW kit much cheaper. Originally, only floats that kit was legal for were Wips. Now it’s approved on some others.

Since I know of at least two other significant companies that tried for several years to get an STC to increase the GW of Cubs and failed, I’d bet it was not cheap for Wip to get this approved. So, how many kits do you have to sell to pay back all the engineering, design, etc?

Not to mention having to deal with FAA process.

MTV

hotrod180 wrote:

Brian-StevesAircraft wrote:One answer... Cost of raw materials... Aluminum has skyrocketed in the last few months... I had to raise the price on our gascolators because of it a couple months back and just got word from my machinist that they will be raising prices on me again after the first of the year due to the material cost... I may have to up my price again sometime next year..

Brian.

A bit off topic but...
Brian, I have a steves gascolator on my C180-- a very nicely designed & made unit.
But being tucked into a notch in the firewall up behind the carb airbox,
it is a PITA to get ahold of it to remove it when inspecting the screen.
The bottom of the bowl is knurled but no tool I have fits up in there without scarfing up the bowl.
If the bottom of the bowl incorporated a hex shape, kinda like a spin-on aviation oil filter,
you could just put a socket on it & very easily rotate it on or off.
Just saying....

I hear you but.. try getting that design change approved by the feds… [emoji849]

Might still look into it..

Brian

hotrod180 wrote:

Brian-StevesAircraft wrote:One answer... Cost of raw materials... Aluminum has skyrocketed in the last few months... I had to raise the price on our gascolators because of it a couple months back and just got word from my machinist that they will be raising prices on me again after the first of the year due to the material cost... I may have to up my price again sometime next year..

Brian.

A bit off topic but...
Brian, I have a steves gascolator on my C180-- a very nicely designed & made unit.
But being tucked into a notch in the firewall up behind the carb airbox,
it is a PITA to get ahold of it to remove it when inspecting the screen.
The bottom of the bowl is knurled but no tool I have fits up in there without scarfing up the bowl.
If the bottom of the bowl incorporated a hex shape, kinda like a spin-on aviation oil filter,
you could just put a socket on it & very easily rotate it on or off.
Just saying....

Eric,

My gascolator is in the well in my 206, and is very hard to reach. Instead of a typical cotter pin, I have a AN-416 pin locking it in place. Maybe that will help.

Tim

BushAK wrote:Is it just me or are the PA-18 STC's getting a little pricey? Just bought a 2000lb Wipaire kit for 4k.. paid 3k a few years ago. There isn't much to that. Feel like at some point they are going to reach a price point where they sell less than they would to make up the difference.

Not you, just everyone jumping on the inflation bandwagon as an excuse. Total BS IMO.
Also why everyone is going experimental, why pay $4,000.00 for a little tube and a couple brackets and a piece of paper, not including paying an AP/IA to do it for you when you can do it free yourself.

AKJurnee wrote:

BushAK wrote:Is it just me or are the PA-18 STC's getting a little pricey? Just bought a 2000lb Wipaire kit for 4k.. paid 3k a few years ago. There isn't much to that. Feel like at some point they are going to reach a price point where they sell less than they would to make up the difference.

Not you, just everyone jumping on the inflation bandwagon as an excuse. Total BS IMO.
Also why everyone is going experimental, why pay $4,000.00 for a little tube and a couple brackets and a piece of paper, not including paying an AP/IA to do it for you when you can do it free yourself.

Oh, yeah, Experimental is "Free"......? Put a ton of money and thousands of hours of your time into something, and it's value is half what you've got into it?

There are lots of good reasons to build an experimental aircraft. Saving money may or may not be one of them.

MTV

behindpropellers wrote:Eric, My gascolator is in the well in my 206, and is very hard to reach. Instead of a typical cotter pin, I have a AN-416 pin locking it in place. Maybe that will help. Tim

The issue isn't removing / installing the cotter pin, although that is an exercise in patience--
I bought a pair of long, 90 degree tip hemostats to reach up there --
it's getting ahold of the bowl to give it that fraction of a turn to disengage it.
Nothing big enough to get ahold of it really fits up in there.
Been using channel locks but they only fit in at an angle, and so they tend to scarf up the knurling.
Someone I know suggested some fuel lube on the o-ring might make it easier to turn,
I'll try that at next year's annual.

hotrod180 wrote:

behindpropellers wrote:Eric, My gascolator is in the well in my 206, and is very hard to reach. Instead of a typical cotter pin, I have a AN-416 pin locking it in place. Maybe that will help. Tim

The issue isn't removing / installing the cotter pin, although that is an exercise in patience--
I bought a pair of long, 90 degree tip hemostats to reach up there --
it's getting ahold of the bowl to give it that fraction of a turn to disengage it.
Nothing big enough to get ahold of it really fits up in there.
Been using channel locks but they only fit in at an angle, and so they tend to scarf up the knurling.
Someone I know suggested some fuel lube on the o-ring might make it easier to turn,
I'll try that at next year's annual.

Could you get a strap around the bowl? I have used old timing belts in the past as strap wrenches. Seems a shame to chew it up, they are so nicely made.

mtv wrote:
Oh, yeah, Experimental is "Free"......? Put a ton of money and thousands of hours of your time into something, and it's value is half what you've got into it?

There are lots of good reasons to build an experimental aircraft. Saving money may or may not be one of them.

MTV

Different strokes for different folks, some have to pay for a piece of paper while others don’t give a crap if their SC clone is half value of what you think it is. Who cares.

AKJurnee wrote:

mtv wrote:
Oh, yeah, Experimental is "Free"......? Put a ton of money and thousands of hours of your time into something, and it's value is half what you've got into it?

There are lots of good reasons to build an experimental aircraft. Saving money may or may not be one of them.

MTV

Different strokes for different folks, some have to pay for a piece of paper while others don’t give a crap if their SC clone is half value of what you think it is. Who cares.

There are great reasons to own certificated or experimental. To each his or her own.

AKJurnee wrote:

BushAK wrote:Is it just me or are the PA-18 STC's getting a little pricey? Just bought a 2000lb Wipaire kit for 4k.. paid 3k a few years ago. There isn't much to that. Feel like at some point they are going to reach a price point where they sell less than they would to make up the difference.

Not you, just everyone jumping on the inflation bandwagon as an excuse. Total BS IMO.
Also why everyone is going experimental, why pay $4,000.00 for a little tube and a couple brackets and a piece of paper, not including paying an AP/IA to do it for you when you can do it free yourself.

Everyone thinks STC's are expensive until they actually go through the headache of developing and maintaining one.

Many of us on this very forum have been either directly involved or watch as others have gone to battle with our respective Regulator. That effort alone justifies the expense of an STC, time is money. If you don't believe so go ahead; take your idea, give it a try and report back on your findings.

AEROPOD wrote:
Everyone thinks STC's are expensive until they actually go through the headache of developing and maintaining one.

Exactly!!!

AEROPOD wrote:

AKJurnee wrote:

BushAK wrote:Is it just me or are the PA-18 STC's getting a little pricey? Just bought a 2000lb Wipaire kit for 4k.. paid 3k a few years ago. There isn't much to that. Feel like at some point they are going to reach a price point where they sell less than they would to make up the difference.

Not you, just everyone jumping on the inflation bandwagon as an excuse. Total BS IMO.
Also why everyone is going experimental, why pay $4,000.00 for a little tube and a couple brackets and a piece of paper, not including paying an AP/IA to do it for you when you can do it free yourself.

Everyone thinks STC's are expensive until they actually go through the headache of developing and maintaining one.

I have to go through 3 FAA audits in a 24 month period.. That’s by regulation.. Countless piles of paperwork.. Getting a huge inspection coming up where they bring in someone from another district next year.. Plus supplier control audits separate from the regular audits..

Our engine conversion STC took 2 years, have yet to make that money back.. have shelved a few ideas because the cost involved versus potential sales just did not compute..

Yes it is expensive.. yes it takes a huge amount of time.. and yes dealing with the feds and all regulations that come with it is a PITA.. But, worth it when you have a good product that you know is well supported and highly recommended by the people that it’s been sold too..

Brian

The other point is, issuance of an STC ensures the purchaser that the modification has been subjected to some rigorous safety and engineering review.

I know, I know, you can do (sorta) whatever you choose with that Ex. And there’s no question that the FAAs system is more draconian than it needs to be. But, the incidence of a failure associated with an STCd mod is so low as to be insignificant.

MTV