I have the 15th of July marked on my calendar, assuming it doesn't change I might be able to make it.

More importantly, I need to know just how early in the morning I need to be on the ground and just how late I have to stay before I can safely depart in my hot rod C-150. It is about a two hour flight, probably more like 2 1/2 hours which is good since I will be low on fuel weight and I will be solo. But, I will have to be into McCall early enough to refuel for the flight home, and I don't do night flying. Also, I have wheel pants on, is this going to be an issue for Johnson Creek?

N3110V

No problem with wheel panties (and good soft field technique!) at Johnson Creek... Here's my Dad last summer:

Damn that place looks sweet. I want to be there, in that weather, right now. July is gonna be fun!

It sure looks sweet, huh. Especially after the white-out blizzard we had this morning and all that damn shovelling I just did!
M

Before I show MLB that picture, what are the odds of getting out of Johnson Creek about 100 under gross? Of course if I can't, maybe then I can convice her of the turbine conversion with five bladed prop for the 150

N3110V

Is there any chance at all for a 90hp Champ? Mine's pretty fat, so loaded for a camping trip, I'd be at 1350-1400 - gross weight is 1450 on my 7EC.

The prop is a 74x42 climber, and I'll likely have 8.50 tires by summer. No VGs or other enhancements.

I'm also cursed with a Stromberg carb. - no mixture control. OK, that's not exactly correct. I has a mixture control but it's wired full rich. They're not particularly effective, I think.

Jon B.

Jon B. wrote:Is there any chance at all for a 90hp Champ? Mine's pretty fat, so loaded for a camping trip, I'd be at 1350-1400 - gross weight is 1450 on my 7EC.

Jon, Jon, Jon
The fact that you are asking someone else means you have doubts about your airplane's abilities. Listen to your inner voice, it will keep you alive.

You have a couple of alternatives:

1. Rent a more suitable airplane or;
2. Land in McCall and make arrangements to have someone come and get you. It is a short flight from there. The folks on this forum are generous and will be glad to help. all you need to do is ask.

Gene

Ok, so lets say my plane performes adequately at McCall, how well does this translate to JC? I am assuming the grass is beat down enough that it won't tangle my axles or wheel pants.

I have never been into McCall, yet, so I don't know about surrounding terrain and variable winds, etc.

Jon B.

Actually the mixture on the stromberg works quite well. Mine was wired full rich but when I restored the plane I extended the mixture arm so it was not so sensitive when adjusting the mixture. I dont use it below 5000 feet because it does not do much, but when about 5000 it works great. When shuting down the engine leaning it will not work to starve the motor, the mixture on the stromberg was not designed for that.

-Jon-

If you can duplicate the density altitude and load your plane up the way you plan to (on a longer runway) when you head for Johnson Creek, you won't be surprised by the performance (or lack thereof!). The grass is well maintained, but of course it will cause a longer takeoff roll anyway. I think general rule of thumb is ~10-15% increase on manicured grass vs. asphalt.

Consider as well, that you could leave some of your gear at McCall or Cascade and make a couple of trips in/out to help lighten the load a bit.

M

Jr's great story about his first time to JC is in the Articles section, the link is in the main menu up top.

Z

bonth123 wrote:Ok, so lets say my plane performes adequately at McCall, how well does this translate to JC? I am assuming the grass is beat down enough that it won't tangle my axles or wheel pants.

I have never been into McCall, yet, so I don't know about surrounding terrain and variable winds, etc.

McCall (5008') and Johnson Creek (4933') are roughly the same elevation.
The issue is terrain. How well does your airplane realistically climb
in density altitude conditions?

Here is a Goggle screen shot of Johnson Creek, compare it to the same
view of McCall below.
l

Gene

Keep in mind, you don't have to outclimb the mountains in the immediate vecinity. Just depart northbound, early in the day, and be sure you can outclimb the conifers at the north end of the strip. Johnson Creek flows downstream northbound. Follow it until you're high enough to change your course in the direction you wanna go. Runway length/density altitude and trees at the departure end are still your biggest concerns. If you depart early, winds should be relatively calm.
M

That does it, I am going to have to hit McCall first, and maybe some recon in the vicinity of JC. I have to assume the climb performance at that kind of DA will be 200-300 FPM tops, even solo.

I suppose if worse came to worse, the plane and myself are both very heavily insured

Now if the stupid weather would just turn to spring already, I'm getting tired of rain.

How well did you do on the judgement section of your aeronautical tests?

In your rig I wouldn't be tempted to do any tight turns or steep banks at those elevations in the summer.

I've never flown a Champ. It may be that Bonth123 decides to bag it because he isn't comfortable with his performance. I don't know...

However, I don't recall the canyon downstream being all that harrowing. I don't think I even exceeded 10-15 degrees of bank climbing out at Vy. My Vy is ~80mph. I do know a Champ is less, thus requiring even less bank angle for the same radius of turn... I don't think the required bank angle to navigate that canyon would be too excessive.

Anyone else with an opinion?

M

When I mentioned bank angles I was more concerned with first time pilots who decide to stay high over a strip trying to get the nerve or other wise figure out how or if they are going to try it.

What happens is they become fixated on the strip and without the benefit of a flat horizon, unknowingly steepen their bank angle to the point of stalling. Know of once such incident that happened this way.

On another note, I would encourage a newby to fly in at morning (before 11:00am) rather than dusk. In late evening you can be flying at altitude with what seems like a lot of light, but when you drop down below the horizon and ridgelines it's a lot darker than you realized.

If memory serves me corectly there are 2 ways to go once you get over Yellow Pine. Study the charts and make your decision.

While there are two ways, perhaps even more, only turning left (west) over Yellow Pine will continue down river (East Fork of the South Fork of the Salmon) which then flows into the South Fork of the Salmon. If you keep following the water, you're always flying toward lowering terrain, and the canyons widen out. But certainly, as jmtgt says, study your charts. My charts for the area look like a kid with crayons got ahold of them, I have all the main drainages highlighted, and strips or emergency landing sites marked. Lastly - know where you're at while you're flying.

I would also agree with Supercubber about flying in the morning vs. the evening. The canyon bottoms get dark fast - remember, in some cases, the mountains around those strips are 3,000' or more higher, so they block the sun.

Looking forward to you guys in my back yard. I've never been to a flyin that was only 20 minutes from home!! Hopefully I'll get some time off to head out there for a night.

John

Johnson Creek Airport is not a difficult place to get in to. The canyon is wide enough to fly a standard pattern from seven or eight hundred feet above the field elevation. By a standardpattern, I don't mean a B-747 Pattern.
The problem with coming up the creek from Yellowpine is that you will not see the runway 'till you're right on top of it, and then you have to get down in a hurry to keep from landing long.
In flying a standard pattern you will keep the runway in sight and it is probably what you are used to doing. I would just learn to fly a standard, fairly close in, pattern from six to eight hubdred feet above field elevation, and be able to land consistently in the first quarter of the field length. A go around from botched long landing can sometimes be problematic, if not extremely exciting.
The runway is 3400 feet long and should not present a problem for any certified airplane that I can think of. I know a fellow from Oregon who comes in there in a sixty five horsepower Ercoupe and seems to do just fine. He knows his airplane and its and his limitations.
On take off, just remember that water in the creek runs downhill all the way to Astoria. Oregon.

I agree that a standard pattern is best for most back country strips.
Diving in from Yellow Pine is fraught with hazards like opposing traffic
taking off Besides, you have to make two substantial turns anyway
coming from that way.


Here you are over Yellow Pine heading South.
Transmitting on 122.9, announce your intentions.


Flying upstream keeping to the right in the canyons, we still don't
see the runway. It is just around the corner to the right.

Whups! there it is! Too high, too fast, dive for the runway?...nah!
Don't let yourself get rushed into making a stupid decision like this guy did:
http://home.comcast.net/~kcabpilot/Maul ... 4/ouch.JPG
Make it a normal upwind and fly your left pattern. Prevailing wind
permitting, always land on 17 and take off on 35.

Three things you need to remember when flying in the canyons.
1. Keep to the right. fly with the river below off your left elbow.
2. The faster you fly, the greater the turn radius, slow dow and
give yourself room to maneuver.
3 With very few exceptions, fly a standard traffic pattern, albeit in
close and about 600 - 800 agl.

OK, it's late and I'm done preaching. I'm going to be @ Big Creek
for the weekend with my Maule buddies but plan to drop in to say hi.
Everyone is going to have a great time and NO BENT TIN!!!

Gene